| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
jimmy_row 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 11 2007
Location: Hibernation
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
|
 Posted: May 16 2008 at 00:26 |
 Shadowavenger wrote:
Awesome Proggy songs by Styx...
Movement For The Common Man-Styx I
What Has Come Between Us-Styx I
A Day-Styx II
Witch Wolf-The Serpent Is Rising
Jonas Psalter-The Serpent Is Rising
The Serpent Is Rising-The Serpent Is Rising
Golden Lark-Man Of Miracles
Man Of Miracles-Man Of Miracles
Mother Dear-Equinox!!!
Born For Adventure-Equinox
Suite Madame Blue-Equinox
Claire De Lune/Ballerina-Crystal Ball
Castle Walls-The Grand Illusion
Pieces Of Eight-Pieces Of Eight
Some of these songs are proggier than others, but all of them on this list I think have more progressive elements to them than people give Styx credit for...so next time you think of Styx, think of these great songs!
|
nice list  If we took all the proggy Styx songs together, it would be one hell of an album. IMO they had a lot of potential in the early days, so it's a bit disappointing that they never unleashed an album full of stuff like Father OSA and Castle Wall...the combination of American hard rock, well-thought out arrangements, and those vocals...they had some good things goin' on but just tried to go in too many directions, ultimately taking a relatively "safe" route.
|
|
Signature Writers Guild on strike
|
 |
Dr. Prog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 306
|
Posted: May 16 2008 at 00:32 |
jimmy_row wrote:
Shadowavenger wrote:
Awesome Proggy songs by Styx...
Movement For The Common Man-Styx I
What Has Come Between Us-Styx I
A Day-Styx II
Witch Wolf-The Serpent Is Rising
Jonas Psalter-The Serpent Is Rising
The Serpent Is Rising-The Serpent Is Rising
Golden Lark-Man Of Miracles
Man Of Miracles-Man Of Miracles
Mother Dear-Equinox!!!
Born For Adventure-Equinox
Suite Madame Blue-Equinox
Claire De Lune/Ballerina-Crystal Ball
Castle Walls-The Grand Illusion
Pieces Of Eight-Pieces Of Eight
Some of these songs are proggier than others, but all of them on this list I think have more progressive elements to them than people give Styx credit for...so next time you think of Styx, think of these great songs!
|
nice list If we took all the proggy Styx songs together, it would be one hell of an album. IMO they had a lot of potential in the early days, so it's a bit disappointing that they never unleashed an album full of stuff like Father OSA and Castle Wall...the combination of American hard rock, well-thought out arrangements, and those vocals...they had some good things goin' on but just tried to go in too many directions, ultimately taking a relatively "safe" route. |
I agree, they had the potential for greater stuff. Why they didn't follow more of a Kansas career path is a little disappointing. Kansas captured the proggy aspects of Yes and Genesis in their music along with a hard rock sound much better imo. Styx could have been more Yes like, but when DeYoung had the huge hit with the ballad of Lady, it was too easy to slide into the soft rock ballad territory, because they knew that's where the bucks were. Of course then you had the conflict btw Shaw and DeYoung because of that. Having said that, its kind of funny that DeYoung tried to do a mini prog opera with Mr Roboto which of course failed miserably.
|
|
jimmy_row
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 11 2007
Location: Hibernation
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
|
Posted: May 16 2008 at 00:39 |
|
^ I don't know if they were trying to make money with that direction, it seems more like Lady was the first thing that actually got a response for them, so DeYoung began writing more like it because it is what he did well...unfortunately there wasn't a big US market for prog, so they did what was most acceptable. It's interesting that Kansas were able to stay "true" longer with the same circumstances...I think they pulled off the songwriting better and certainly with more consistency. The thing I like about Styx is that prior to Crystal Ball they didn't have to rely as much on synthesizers so you get a more down to earth sound.
|
|
Signature Writers Guild on strike
|
|
Dr. Prog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 306
|
Posted: May 16 2008 at 00:44 |
jimmy_row wrote:
^ I don't know if they were trying to make money with that direction, it seems more like Lady was the first thing that actually got a response for them, so DeYoung began writing more like it because it is what he did well...unfortunately there wasn't a big US market for prog, so they did what was most acceptable. It's interesting that Kansas were able to stay "true" longer with the same circumstances...I think they pulled off the songwriting better and certainly with more consistency. The thing I like about Styx is that prior to Crystal Ball they didn't have to rely as much on synthesizers so you get a more down to earth sound. |
the response being that it sold well, and was a big hit, so obviously the record company is going to push for more of that kind of material. Plus, DeYoung at heart sees himself as a piano man crooner, a showtune kind of guy, as you can see from his solo career projects. People around here crucify Phil Collins for one tenth of the kind of commercial sins that people like Dennis DeYoung have committed over the years.
|
|
ghost_of_morphy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2755
|
Posted: May 16 2008 at 03:10 |
My contribution to this poll was sadly hit by the recent hacker. I responded to a poster who mentioned that The Angry Young Man was his introduction to Styx and still his favorite. I replied that it was my introduction to Styx as well, but I later realized that Sing for the Day was a much better composition. I finished by stating that if you owned Equinox, Pieces of Eight and a greatest hits compilation (not the first one) then you knew all of Styx that you needed to know.
My vote for Sing for the Day is in the other category, because I either didn't see that option or it was added after the hack.
|
|
ghost_of_morphy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2755
|
Posted: May 16 2008 at 03:13 |
Dr. Prog wrote:
jimmy_row wrote:
^ I don't know if they were trying to make money with that direction, it seems more like Lady was the first thing that actually got a response for them, so DeYoung began writing more like it because it is what he did well...unfortunately there wasn't a big US market for prog, so they did what was most acceptable. It's interesting that Kansas were able to stay "true" longer with the same circumstances...I think they pulled off the songwriting better and certainly with more consistency. The thing I like about Styx is that prior to Crystal Ball they didn't have to rely as much on synthesizers so you get a more down to earth sound. |
the response being that it sold well, and was a big hit, so obviously the record company is going to push for more of that kind of material. Plus, DeYoung at heart sees himself as a piano man crooner, a showtune kind of guy, as you can see from his solo career projects. People around here crucify Phil Collins for one tenth of the kind of commercial sins that people like Dennis DeYoung have committed over the years.
|
While I'm all for crucifying DeYoung, Phil has sinned much more.
|
|
debrewguy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596
|
Posted: May 16 2008 at 07:55 |
akiko wrote:
it has to be Suite Madame Blue b/c of the same reason Cesar said. I agree with the term Imperialistic. Any nation that has as large a military presence abroad as at home, even in times of peace, is an Empire
|
England, France, Russia, Syria. ????? At times - Cuba, South Africa, India , China. ???? Of course, when so called imperialistic nation declines world insistence on Imperialistic nation to sacrifice its' young men for cause of importance to world, but not to imperialist nation, then imperialist nation derided as isolationist. translation DAMNED IF YOU DO, DAMNED IF YOU DON'T ! p.s. no i do not agree with Iraq (U.S.), Chad (France), Sudan (lack of African Union intervention & Chinese support of central gov't) , Lebanon (Iran & Syria) . I wish that someone had intervened in Rwanda. But why is it only the non african countries that are held responsible ? The West could have supplied the money & the logistical support, the african & hey why not, the Arab nations the cannon fodder.
|
|
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
|
|
Cesar Inca
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 19 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 4888
|
Posted: May 16 2008 at 10:09 |
ClassicRocker wrote:
Cesar Inca wrote:
Very emotional song about a political issue: America, stop being so imperalist because that won't lead you to greatness. If you want to be great again, stick to the dreams of freedom that gave you birth in the first place and stop being imperialist. That will help to solve the country's internal problems, the most important and urgent ones.
Kind regards. |
I don't want to get into a political argument here, but "imperialist"? Are you sure about that? I wasn't aware we had an American Empire. For clarification, are you referring to the song's meaning or your own opinion?
oh and, erm, "Styx rox!" and such...
|
Beyond the fact of what I think about this sort of detail, I was just stating my interpretation of the lyrics to 'Suite Madame Blue'. I want to make it clear that I think that this is a very patriotic song, a statement of patriotic self-criticism as Socrates did from the philosopher's point of view in Ancient Athens.
The Vietnam thing was a major reference for those Americans who felt that worldwide political expansion wasn't the way while unemployment, unequity and public health were still issues unsolved in the own country. I regard the line "once long ago, a word from your lips and the world turned around" refers to the fatc that the USA used to be a very inspirational country: it achieved its independence before the victory of antu-monarchists in France, it established a multi-state nation that eventually served as some sort of model for many European democratic countries, and the USA was also the country where most of the the anti-slavery, anti-sexism and pro-labor movements began. It was very pionerring in terms of defending the ideals of freedom and equity in the area of ideas. DeYoung seems to express his total disappointment at the way the USA had managed its international affairs from the 50s onward (Korea onward). I feel that's where the allusions to Madame Blue's vanity come in.
Definitely, the last lines seem to me like a claim to stop with this line of work in international politics and start a new one, more faithful to the original spirit that had given birth to teh USA in the first place. These lyrics don't match the poetry of Hammill nor the deep imagery of Kery Livgren, but they definitely are clever, full of allusions. I hope my interpretation does hit some mark along the way. To put an European example, Spain is another country that has had a long history of self-criticism through intellectuals and artists during the time of its imperial decline.
Once again, this is my interpetation of DeYoung's concerns in these lyrics. I'm not saying I'm agreeing (alghouth I might) - this is not the subject. 
And just in case, I'm not Anti-American or something, I'm not "anti-any-country". I disagree with individual people  , not with the nations they were born in. 
All in all, my all-time fave STYX song is an introspective one: 'Castle Walls'. It sets the ultimate connection between STYX' American essence and Britisn prog - much Yes and PF influence in this track, yet remaining true to the spirit of the band's signature sound.
Kind regards.
Edited by Cesar Inca - May 16 2008 at 10:31
|
|
Cesar Inca
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 19 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 4888
|
Posted: May 16 2008 at 10:20 |
ClassicRocker wrote:
Dr. Prog wrote:
jimmy_row wrote:
ClassicRocker wrote:
Cesar Inca wrote:
Very emotional song about a political issue: America, stop being so imperalist because that won't lead you to greatness. If you want to be great again, stick to the dreams of freedom that gave you birth in the first place and stop being imperialist. That will help to solve the country's internal problems, the most important and urgent ones.
Kind regards. |
I don't want to get into a political argument here, but "imperialist"? Are you sure about that? I wasn't aware we had an American Empire. For clarification, are you referring to the song's meaning or your own opinion?
oh and, erm, "Styx rox!" and such...
|
well politics aren't the issue here anyway, it's the writer's intention. I'm pretty sure DeYoung has said that the song was a metaphor between a man's love for this woman, and what was going on with the country and the world. it was the bicentennial and Dennis was reflecting on what had happened to the dream, "but somehow you've changed"...
"Red, white, and blue..." that's a clear reference; the big deal was American supported militias in South America and the Dirty Wars around the time Suite Madame Blue was written. |
not to mention a little debacle called Vietnam....... |
Sorry guys, i wasn't thinking that far back. Truly I was considering only a modern (last 5 years) context when reading Cesar's response. (Please don't carry on about Iraq now)
It was my mistake I suppose in interpretation; I'm also not an expert on imperialism beyond that of the Europeans (my AP US history class only reached the 1950s to boot).
Anyways, I have a small issue with it when people are talking about the actions of a government, and instead address their criticism to the nation/population as a whole, as I felt Cesar did. This gives the impression that Cesar may think that each person who lives in the US, including myself, is a supporter of imperialism.
|
Now I'm a bit angry, to tell you truth, although I suspect my anger won't last too long.
Anyway... WHERE DID I SAY THAT I "THINK THAT EACH PERSON WHO LIVES IN THE USA... ETC. ETC."? WHERE IS THAT LINE AND IN WHICH POST? WHERE?
|
|
Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
|
Posted: May 16 2008 at 12:03 |
If I knew this, I wouldn't started the thread:
Imperialism, Vietnam, Phoil Collins, etc, all of them have nothing to do here, this is a poll about STYX tracks, that's all.
Iván
|
|
|
|
Jared
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Hereford, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 17530
|
Posted: May 16 2008 at 13:04 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
If I knew this, I wouldn't started the thread:
Imperialism, Vietnam, Phoil Collins, etc, all of them have nothing to do here, this is a poll about STYX tracks, that's all.
Iván |
very well said, Ivan....
just what I have been thinking...there are a few 'contributors' to this thread who frankly ought to re-evaluate their PA priorities... 
earlier on in this thread, I was going to compliment people on what a refreshing change it has been to have positive, constructive discussion on Styx appreciation, as in the past, Styx particularly have come in for quite a bit of unnecessary bashing on this forum....
but of course, it doesn't ever seam to be able to stay like that, does it? someone just has to start bashing America, or intruduce controvertial global political/ religious issues which have absolutely nothing to do with the original subject, and only serve to leave a bad taste in the mouth...
...I don't know how the rest of you feel, but I for one am getting a bit fed up of it all.... 
|
|
Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
|
|
cosmic_owl
Forum Newbie
Joined: May 12 2008
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 29
|
Posted: May 16 2008 at 13:43 |
|
Suite Madam Blue is an excellent song. But I have to vote for Fooling Yourself. It just does something to me. It makes me happy inside.
|
|
~The Great Owl Hath Spoken~
|
|
Cesar Inca
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 19 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 4888
|
Posted: May 16 2008 at 13:47 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
If I knew this, I wouldn't started the thread:
Imperialism, Vietnam, Phil Collins, etc, all of them have nothing to do here, this is a poll about STYX tracks, that's all.
Iván |
And I understood it that way and I only added my interpretation of DeYoung's lyrics to the song I chose. It would have been a different message if my fave track from that list would have had romantic or introspective lyrics.
I quote myself from a previous post:
" Beyond the fact of what I think about this sort of detail, I was just stating my interpretation of the lyrics to 'Suite Madame Blue'. I want to make it clear that I think that this is a very patriotic song, a statement of patriotic self-criticism as Socrates did from the philosopher's point of view in Ancient Athens.
The Vietnam thing was a major reference for those Americans who felt that worldwide political expansion wasn't the way while unemployment, unequity and public health were still issues unsolved in the own country. I regard the line "once long ago, a word from your lips and the world turned around" refers to the fatc that the USA used to be a very inspirational country: it achieved its independence before the victory of anti-monarchists in France, it established a multi-state nation that eventually served as some sort of model for many European democratic countries, and the USA was also the country where most of the the anti-slavery, anti-sexism and pro-labor movements began. It was very pionerring in terms of defending the ideals of freedom and equity in the area of ideas. DeYoung seems to express his total disappointment at the way the USA had managed its international affairs from the 50s onward (Korea onward). I feel that's where the allusions to Madame Blue's vanity come in.
Definitely, the last lines seem to me like a claim to stop with this line of work in international politics and start a new one, more faithful to the original spirit that had given birth to teh USA in the first place. These lyrics don't match the poetry of Hammill nor the deep imagery of Kery Livgren, but they definitely are clever, full of allusions. I hope my interpretation does hit some mark along the way. To put an European example, Spain is another country that has had a long history of self-criticism through intellectuals and artists during the time of its imperial decline.
Once again, this is my interpetation of DeYoung's concerns in these lyrics. "
Enough said about this from my part, and of course, hardly I was an America-bashing participant in this thread.
Kind regards.
|
|
burritounit
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 18 2007
Location: Puerto Rico
Status: Offline
Points: 2551
|
Posted: May 16 2008 at 14:21 |
|
I voted for Suite Madame Blue though there are plenty of other songs from that I like from them, such as Come Sail Away, Renegade, Crystall Ball and others.
|
|
"I've walked on water, run through fire, can't seem to feel it anymore. It was me, waiting for me..."
|
|
Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
|
Posted: May 16 2008 at 14:28 |
Cesar Inca wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
If I knew this, I wouldn't started the thread:
Imperialism, Vietnam, Phil Collins, etc, all of them have nothing to do here, this is a poll about STYX tracks, that's all.
Iván |
And I understood it that way and I only added my interpretation of DeYoung's lyrics to the song I chose. It would have been a different message if my fave track from that list would have had romantic or introspective lyrics.
I quote myself from a previous post:
" Beyond the fact of what I think about this sort of detail, I was just stating my interpretation of the lyrics to 'Suite Madame Blue'. I want to make it clear that I think that this is a very patriotic song, a statement of patriotic self-criticism as Socrates did from the philosopher's point of view in Ancient Athens.
The Vietnam thing was a major reference for those Americans who felt that worldwide political expansion wasn't the way while unemployment, unequity and public health were still issues unsolved in the own country. I regard the line "once long ago, a word from your lips and the world turned around" refers to the fatc that the USA used to be a very inspirational country: it achieved its independence before the victory of anti-monarchists in France, it established a multi-state nation that eventually served as some sort of model for many European democratic countries, and the USA was also the country where most of the the anti-slavery, anti-sexism and pro-labor movements began. It was very pionerring in terms of defending the ideals of freedom and equity in the area of ideas. DeYoung seems to express his total disappointment at the way the USA had managed its international affairs from the 50s onward (Korea onward). I feel that's where the allusions to Madame Blue's vanity come in.
Definitely, the last lines seem to me like a claim to stop with this line of work in international politics and start a new one, more faithful to the original spirit that had given birth to teh USA in the first place. These lyrics don't match the poetry of Hammill nor the deep imagery of Kery Livgren, but they definitely are clever, full of allusions. I hope my interpretation does hit some mark along the way. To put an European example, Spain is another country that has had a long history of self-criticism through intellectuals and artists during the time of its imperial decline.
Once again, this is my interpetation of DeYoung's concerns in these lyrics. "
Enough said about this from my part, and of course, hardly I was an America-bashing participant in this thread.
Kind regards. |
I understand that the interpretation of Suite Madam Blues can lead to that, but the problem is that instantly the people who want to bash USA (I hate to say America, because I still believe America is a Continent) jump into the thread and with equal reason the people who feel offended by this statements jump in and we start talking about anything except what the original, harmless issue was, I know you personally, and I know you're not anti-USA.
But it's not only your valid interptretation, Phil Collins also ended in this thread. He has absolutely nothing to do in a STYX poll, for God's sake, not even Kansas, being that the guys from Topeka created a 100% Prog band and STYX is mostly great Rock, just because they are both coetaneous and rom USA misleads the analysis of both bands.
If we want to debate about USA and their external policy, there is the General Discussion section and if we want to debate about Phil Collins, there are at least four open threads about him.
Let's try to keep this in focus, that's all.
Iván
|
|
|
|
MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
|
Posted: May 16 2008 at 15:25 |
fandango wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
If I knew this, I wouldn't started the thread:
Imperialism, Vietnam, Phoil Collins, etc, all of them have nothing to do here, this is a poll about STYX tracks, that's all.
Iván |
very well said, Ivan....
just what I have been thinking...there are a few 'contributors' to this thread who frankly ought to re-evaluate their PA priorities...
earlier on in this thread, I was going to compliment people on what a refreshing change it has been to have positive, constructive discussion on Styx appreciation, as in the past, Styx particularly have come in for quite a bit of unnecessary bashing on this forum....
but of course, it doesn't ever seam to be able to stay like that, does it? someone just has to start bashing America, or intruduce controvertial global political/ religious issues which have absolutely nothing to do with the original subject, and only serve to leave a bad taste in the mouth...
...I don't know how the rest of you feel, but I for one am getting a bit fed up of it all.... |
|
|
|
|
cosmic_owl
Forum Newbie
Joined: May 12 2008
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 29
|
Posted: May 16 2008 at 15:39 |
fandango wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
If I knew this, I wouldn't started the thread:
Imperialism, Vietnam, Phoil Collins, etc, all of them have nothing to do here, this is a poll about STYX tracks, that's all.
Iván |
very well said, Ivan....
just what I have been thinking...there are a few 'contributors' to this thread who frankly ought to re-evaluate their PA priorities...
earlier on in this thread, I was going to compliment people on what a refreshing change it has been to have positive, constructive discussion on Styx appreciation, as in the past, Styx particularly have come in for quite a bit of unnecessary bashing on this forum....
but of course, it doesn't ever seam to be able to stay like that, does it? someone just has to start bashing America, or intruduce controvertial global political/ religious issues which have absolutely nothing to do with the original subject, and only serve to leave a bad taste in the mouth...
...I don't know how the rest of you feel, but I for one am getting a bit fed up of it all.... |
Indeed. Let's keep politics in a political forum.
|
|
~The Great Owl Hath Spoken~
|
|
Dr. Prog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 306
|
Posted: May 16 2008 at 18:17 |
fandango wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
If I knew this, I wouldn't started the thread:
Imperialism, Vietnam, Phoil Collins, etc, all of them have nothing to do here, this is a poll about STYX tracks, that's all.
Iván |
very well said, Ivan....
just what I have been thinking...there are a few 'contributors' to this thread who frankly ought to re-evaluate their PA priorities...
earlier on in this thread, I was going to compliment people on what a refreshing change it has been to have positive, constructive discussion on Styx appreciation, as in the past, Styx particularly have come in for quite a bit of unnecessary bashing on this forum....
but of course, it doesn't ever seam to be able to stay like that, does it? someone just has to start bashing America, or intruduce controvertial global political/ religious issues which have absolutely nothing to do with the original subject, and only serve to leave a bad taste in the mouth...
...I don't know how the rest of you feel, but I for one am getting a bit fed up of it all.... |
if you followed the thread and actually read the posts, no one just started up and "bashing America". Cesar made a very accurate and well thought out statement that Suite Madame Blue by STYX is a song about America's imperialistic policies and the Vietnam War, which in fact he is dead on right about. For that he was bashed and criticized unfairly, and then people started spouting off with blatant right wing falsities and absurdities as a result. That is what the song is about. Deal with it. If it pains people to know that some songs out there actually dare to criticize the U, S of A, and you don't want to hear about it, I would suggest you stop listening to music with any kind of intelligence associated with it, and listen to Miley Cyrus records, who is unlikely to sing about anything controversial. Do you actually expect people to ignore the meaning of songs and not discuss their meaning? Are people that vacuous?
Suite Madame Blue is a lot of people's favorite Styx song exactly because is one of the few Styx songs they ever did which actually had some meat and substance to it. The meaning of the Styx song had everything to do with the thread, and people should be allowed to freely post their opinions on what the song means and why its an important song. People have every right to discuss its meaning and the reasons why it is their favorite song and why its important. I would suggest that if discussing the meaning of songs and the implications behind those songs are just too disconcerting for you, don't post about them, don't start threads about them, and don't read posts about them, and ignore posts which dare to criticize the USA, which by the way, is the very foundation and cornerstone of living in a a democratic free society like America, and what fighting for the flag in fact means.
I also find it ironic that the statement was made earlier in the thread to feel free to talk about anything you like without restrictions, and now all the whiners want to come out and control what people think and write simply because the meaning of a clearly political statement song was being discussed. Amazing.
also, the Phil Collins reference was made in direct comparison to the pop fluff factor that Styx had and their move to commercialism, again, in direct reference to the songs being discussed, and for comparison purposes. I would suggest that some people quit trying to control and micromanage other people's opinions and relax and deal with diversity of thought and freedom of expression. I also find it ironic that its the right wing that always wants to clamp down on freedom of thought and expression.
How dare you Dennis DeYoung, you commie radical American hating hippie!
Edited by Dr. Prog - May 16 2008 at 18:19
|
|
Dr. Prog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 306
|
Posted: May 16 2008 at 18:20 |
Cesar Inca wrote:
ClassicRocker wrote:
Cesar Inca wrote:
Very emotional song about a political issue: America, stop being so imperalist because that won't lead you to greatness. If you want to be great again, stick to the dreams of freedom that gave you birth in the first place and stop being imperialist. That will help to solve the country's internal problems, the most important and urgent ones.
Kind regards. |
I don't want to get into a political argument here, but "imperialist"? Are you sure about that? I wasn't aware we had an American Empire. For clarification, are you referring to the song's meaning or your own opinion?
oh and, erm, "Styx rox!" and such...
|
Beyond the fact of what I think about this sort of detail, I was just stating my interpretation of the lyrics to 'Suite Madame Blue'. I want to make it clear that I think that this is a very patriotic song, a statement of patriotic self-criticism as Socrates did from the philosopher's point of view in Ancient Athens.
The Vietnam thing was a major reference for those Americans who felt that worldwide political expansion wasn't the way while unemployment, unequity and public health were still issues unsolved in the own country. I regard the line "once long ago, a word from your lips and the world turned around" refers to the fatc that the USA used to be a very inspirational country: it achieved its independence before the victory of antu-monarchists in France, it established a multi-state nation that eventually served as some sort of model for many European democratic countries, and the USA was also the country where most of the the anti-slavery, anti-sexism and pro-labor movements began. It was very pionerring in terms of defending the ideals of freedom and equity in the area of ideas. DeYoung seems to express his total disappointment at the way the USA had managed its international affairs from the 50s onward (Korea onward). I feel that's where the allusions to Madame Blue's vanity come in.
Definitely, the last lines seem to me like a claim to stop with this line of work in international politics and start a new one, more faithful to the original spirit that had given birth to teh USA in the first place. These lyrics don't match the poetry of Hammill nor the deep imagery of Kery Livgren, but they definitely are clever, full of allusions. I hope my interpretation does hit some mark along the way. To put an European example, Spain is another country that has had a long history of self-criticism through intellectuals and artists during the time of its imperial decline.
Once again, this is my interpetation of DeYoung's concerns in these lyrics. I'm not saying I'm agreeing (alghouth I might) - this is not the subject.
And just in case, I'm not Anti-American or something, I'm not "anti-any-country". I disagree with individual people , not with the nations they were born in.
All in all, my all-time fave STYX song is an introspective one: 'Castle Walls'. It sets the ultimate connection between STYX' American essence and Britisn prog - much Yes and PF influence in this track, yet remaining true to the spirit of the band's signature sound.
Kind regards.
|
very good analysis. At least someone has a clue about what the song is about.
|
|
debrewguy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596
|
Posted: May 16 2008 at 20:57 |
|
Oh, btw, Lady broke as a hit single around the time of Equinox or Crystal Ball. So DeYoung was already moving on from his earlier stylings. Mostly, it came down to a building up of confidence in his songwriting that started with Curulewski's departure. You'll note that James Young had more songwriting credits on the first few albums than he did on later Styx classics like Grand Illusion et al.
Also note that until Paradise Theater, DeYoung did manage to put out some "heavy" songs, and even some that still showed a prog bent.
As for Kansas, if you do an album count of the "regression" of the progness of the music, you may see that both groups became more mainstream at about the same stage of their career. The one difference being that Kansas was taken more seriously due to the lyrical matter, and the fact that they didn't go on to put out their own "Babe", "I'm O.K." , and "Best of Times".
And finally, as too many PAers will proclaim, there is no such thing as American Prog. Heck, apart from Rush, just about any other North American prog group that achieved any success is damned with the curse of somehow being "commercial" (see Klaatu, Kansas, Styx, Saga, Triumph, etc...)
|
|
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
|
|
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
STYX Poll
