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explodingjosh View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Tony Williams Lifetime
    Posted: July 04 2008 at 00:38
Since when have they been in the archives???!!! The lineup for Believe It! really put them on the map for me, as I am looking for all kinds of fusion these days, especially anything involving Allan Holdsworth. Researching and listening to this band has really made me think that they are easily in the same echelon as Return to Forever, Mahavishnu Orchestra, or Bruford, yet their representation in ProgArchives is very very understated.

Well, there are no discussions of this group yet, so I thought I'd make a topic.

'Proto-Cosmos' rocks! 'Red Alert' sounds like Zeppelin-gone-fusion! What do you think?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2008 at 02:30
ive always wanted to get into TW's lifetime. I've got trio of doom. Anyone intrested in fusion HAS to hear that album
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2008 at 02:49
1992's "The Collection" is worth seeking out. The fact that's it got the entire "Believe It!" album makes it a worthwhile purchase. "Million Dollar Legs" is a less-than-worthy successor that tries too hard to be commercial, yet it still houses a few killer numbers. As a one CD set, its a total bargain.

"Turn it Over" is freakin' awesome too. Though the woozy psych moments leave me cold, the guitar-organ interplay is undeniably great.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2008 at 02:56
Originally posted by andYouandI45

ive always wanted to get into TW's lifetime. I've got trio of doom. Anyone intrested in fusion HAS to hear that album


I got Trio of Doom and it is sad that there wasn't more music out of that threesome.
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Dick Heath View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2008 at 05:20
Tony Williams one of the pioneers of jazz rock, and catalyst on Miles Davis's more wholesale  move into that territory.  I'm all for Tony Williams' inclusion, but be careful with Lifetime: the Emergency/Turn It Over/Ego set-ups were known as the Tony Williams Lifetime, whilst the quartet on BelieveIt/Million Dollar Legs was first called the New Tony Williams Lifetime. There is an unreleased album that links the two set-ups, Tony Williams' Wildlife (which is echoed as a tune title on Believe It). Then you have a variety of Tony Williams solos, from Lifetime (Blue Note) which is mid 60's free jazz ,to Joy Of Flying's jazz rock/jazz funk, plus a heap of session work, also for instance being tied up with Ronnie Montrose, Brian Auger - btw Brian Auger's website has  for sale Tony Williams Live In Toyko, which includes a drum battle with Billy Cobham. Great sadness when Williams died - e.g. a tribute on Holdsworth's 16 Men Of Tain and Gary Husband got himself some yellow drums. When Holdsworth and Alan Pasqua reunited on tour 2006/7, a couple of Believe It tunes were included  and much appreciated in their set, (also on the DVD, Live At Yoshi's) although you wished for Williams not Wackerman was playing the skins.
 
As stated above a two for one Believe It/Million Dollar Legs CD was issued quite some time ago, but Believe It has been more recently issued with bonus tracks - although it is unclear whether the recording has been remastered if at all. One bonus track, Letsby sound a tad like a Herbie Hancock piece and the other seems more like an outtake from the sessions but given a different title from the more familiar version originally on the album


Edited by Dick Heath - July 04 2008 at 12:10
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2008 at 11:42

^ Admitedly I'm no expert on Miles Davis only having around 6 albums but I wasn't aware that any of his material with Williams on was in the Jazz Rock area. I believe In A Silent Way (which I dont own) was the last Davis album he played on. Any enlightenment on the nature of the Davis material Williams played on would be much appreciated Dick.

 Of his own band I only have the Emergency album and was imediately blown away by Williams explosive drumming despite the rawness of the recording. I have often considered delving a little further into his material. I must do that very soon.



Edited by Nightfly - July 05 2008 at 11:43
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2008 at 15:13
Originally posted by Nightfly

^ Admitedly I'm no expert on Miles Davis only having around 6 albums but I wasn't aware that any of his material with Williams on was in the Jazz Rock area.



I didn't say anything about WiIlliams and Davis playing jazz rock together, rather Tony WIlliams being in Davis's band and having some infleunce. It has have written up a number of times in biogs, that because of Williams' relative youth and musical openness, Davis was being exposed to pop and rock music - hence the catalysing Davis into looking for the similar large audiences and large record sales, and so realising he too would have to follow the likes of Charles Lloyd, Larry Coryell, Steve Marcus, get amplification go electric and where necessary adopt some of rhythms and pazzazz of rock. Williams broke ranks first and did Emergency ( John McLaughlin was apparently recruited on the strength of fellow Brit Dave Holland's word to Williams and hearing some of Extrapolation)- and you realise Davis effectively "borrowed" John McLaughlin from Lifetime for the Jack Johnson  and Bitches Brew sessions. As I wrote Tony Williams first(?) solo album is called Lifetime, but musically is along way from what the various Lifetime line-ups produced.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2008 at 17:37
Originally posted by Dick Heath

Originally posted by Nightfly

^ Admitedly I'm no expert on Miles Davis only having around 6 albums but I wasn't aware that any of his material with Williams on was in the Jazz Rock area.



I didn't say anything about WiIlliams and Davis playing jazz rock together, rather Tony WIlliams being in Davis's band and having some infleunce. It has have written up a number of times in biogs, that because of Williams' relative youth and musical openness, Davis was being exposed to pop and rock music - hence the catalysing Davis into looking for the similar large audiences and large record sales, and so realising he too would have to follow the likes of Charles Lloyd, Larry Coryell, Steve Marcus, get amplification go electric and where necessary adopt some of rhythms and pazzazz of rock. Williams broke ranks first and did Emergency ( John McLaughlin was apparently recruited on the strength of fellow Brit Dave Holland's word to Williams and hearing some of Extrapolation)- and you realise Davis effectively "borrowed" John McLaughlin from Lifetime for the Jack Johnson  and Bitches Brew sessions. As I wrote Tony Williams first(?) solo album is called Lifetime, but musically is along way from what the various Lifetime line-ups produced.
 
Thanks for the enlightenment Dick Thumbs%20Up
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2008 at 17:46
I have to say.. of all the additions I've done here.. this was one I was most proud of... was nice to get him added here.  Richard was a great help with the bio.. the man knows his sh*t hahhahah

Edited by micky - July 05 2008 at 17:49
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2008 at 08:59
I've got to get the first couple of albums just for the lineup,anyone know where i could listen to them?

also trio of doom are great there's a funny story somewhere about jaco annoying the other memebers.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2008 at 09:21
^ being a Jack Bruce FANATIC hahha..  that is what led me to Tony Williams.  

not sure where you can find the albums where you are at.... but you can listen to them.. in about 15 minutes..  register for Napster.  Napster has them... and THOUSANDS of albums hahhaha. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2008 at 09:28
heres an interview with mclaughlin,he mentions the trio of doom.

http://www.abstractlogix.com/interview_view.php?idno=23

Edited by mrcozdude - July 06 2008 at 09:29
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2008 at 12:28
Originally posted by micky

I have to say.. of all the additions I've done here.. this was one I was most proud of... was nice to get him added here.  Richard was a great help with the bio.. the man knows his sh*t hahhahah


Nice job. I've added two Lifetime compilations - I have the LP  of the earliest one but as I  found it in a dumper bin it was missus the sleeve - and I can't find a repro on the web. So instead a photocopy of the label on side 2!!! Also the release notes about Believe It has been tidied up. According to my CDs of Believe It, the twoforone (with Million Dollar legs) was released in 1992 on Columbia's Jazz Contemporary Master label, whilst the Believe It with two bonus tracks was released in 2004, not 1995 as stated. No evidence in the latter CD liner notes of this being remastered????? However, Columbia did release CD format albums all over the place EXCEPT the UK, so the 1995 edition may not have made it to these off shore waters - this wouldhave predated the Amazon freedom we have now - indeed when Columbia issued the MO's Birds Of Fire remastered CD in the UK, they advertised it in the press as "the first time ever.".... which wasn't quite the truth:  I had bought it on a visit to the US  several years before....  So could somebody upload the catalogue number  for the 1995 issue of  Believe It?


Edited by Dick Heath - September 11 2008 at 08:27
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2008 at 12:43
Originally posted by micky

I have to say.. of all the additions I've done here.. this was one I was most proud of... was nice to get him added here.  Richard was a great help with the bio.. the man knows his sh*t hahhahah




A dilemma: either we include all Tony Williams solo releases or removed the free jazz, Blue Note issue of Lifetime. Personally I think we could justify all of Williams' solo and named collaborative album releases, because of predominance of jazz rock fusion found there, e.g. Joy Of Flying, Live In Tokyo, Wilderness, leader of  Arcana (Arc Of The Testimony), duo with Jonas Hellborg (The Word - which I think is listed already under Hellborg), plus guesting dynamically on Stanley Clarke second eponymous solo, and on some of Holdsworth's solos. Then there is the period late 80's when Williams seemed to have returned to  straighter jazz - including shared billing on a Miles Davis tribute



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2008 at 15:37
I heard Turn It Over and is a very heavy album, they play with a monster energy, i have the first one but i have not heard it yet.
 
Also Tony Williams played with Miles Davis since 1965 to 1968 and was substitute with Jack de Johnette in early 69' .
 
in 1979 Tony was able to play with bassist virtuoso Jaco Pastorius in a jam called Havana, is a great one.
 
His tecnique with Davis was very smooth and in his  first Lifetime period was a really "Heavy" drummer.
 
one of the best drummers along with Cobham and White.
 
Cheers
 
 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2008 at 10:48
Originally posted by crimhead

Originally posted by andYouandI45

ive always wanted to get into TW's lifetime. I've got trio of doom. Anyone intrested in fusion HAS to hear that album


I got Trio of Doom and it is sad that there wasn't more music out of that threesome.
Yeah really unfortunate. If you read the liner notes on the disc that`s it that`s all because that group was a one off. McLaughlin had jammed before I believe but it wasn`t recorded.
                
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 18:13
Originally posted by Vibrationbaby

Originally posted by crimhead

Originally posted by andYouandI45

ive always wanted to get into TW's lifetime. I've got trio of doom. Anyone intrested in fusion HAS to hear that album


I got Trio of Doom and it is sad that there wasn't more music out of that threesome.
Yeah really unfortunate. If you read the liner notes on the disc that`s it that`s all because that group was a one off. McLaughlin had jammed before I believe but it wasn`t recorded.
 
Actually is now official


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2008 at 00:32
I'm a fan of the original Lifetime line up. Simple trio setup, and totally brilliant playing/players. Williams/Young/McLaughlin. It was fantastic and Williams' mindset at the time was perfect for accomplishing what he wanted. He said the later Lifetime years were disappointing for him which is quite understandable.

The original trio was perfectly able to blend jazz, rock and soul into one setting while still maintaining themselves more in the jazz realm than the other two. The instrumentation again, was fantastic. Just having an octopus-drummer, and heavy hitting Hammond player and a guitar wizard together is all they needed. And the overall sound was perfect too. Swinging, grooving, dirty, electrifying.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2008 at 08:47
Originally posted by BroSpence

I'm a fan of the original Lifetime line up. Simple trio setup, and totally brilliant playing/players. Williams/Young/McLaughlin. It was fantastic and Williams' mindset at the time was perfect for accomplishing what he wanted. He said the later Lifetime years were disappointing for him which is quite understandable.

The original trio was perfectly able to blend jazz, rock and soul into one setting while still maintaining themselves more in the jazz realm than the other two. The instrumentation again, was fantastic. Just having an octopus-drummer, and heavy hitting Hammond player and a guitar wizard together is all they needed. And the overall sound was perfect too. Swinging, grooving, dirty, electrifying.
 
All what you say - but the recording quality even with the CD remaster is poor, which can be off-putting.
 
Just thinking covers of both the original  and New Tony Williams Lifetime's tunes. There is a superb, apparently spontaneous, Lifetime tribute by the Cline brothers and organist Wayne Peet, covering tunes from the original Lifetime's first two albums, recorded off the desk by Henry Kaiser but the musicans won't approve its legit release because "of fluffs".
 
There is the double recorded in 2004(?) at London's Barbican by Jack DeJohnette, John Scofield, Larry Goldings (calling themselves The Trio Beyond) released as Saudades (ECM) - interpretations not faithful copies of tunes.
 
A couple of tunes (Red Alert & Protocosmos) covered by New TWL graduates Holdsworth and Pasqua on their Live at Yoshi's DVD. Gregg Howe (with Chambers and Wooten) attack Protocosmos. Red Alert  is attacked by a different line-up with Tony Wiliams (i.e. on Tony Williams' Live In Toyko). Holdsworth's precursor to Fred, Kinder  is found on his first solo album Velvet Darkness and as Holdsworth does recycle compositions under different titles, I sure there are other precursors. Kinder/Fred is interpreted by Gary Husband on his piano album  Things You See - speaking with Gary he pronounced Kinder the German way, meaning child.......
 
Others?


Edited by Dick Heath - September 11 2008 at 18:38
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2009 at 07:43
It was Jack Bruce's music that led me to Lifetime as well.
 
It was the version of the TWL that contained Bruce that was the most interesting. The band was a bit short on songs and unwisely let Williams 'sing' a few of them. But the couple Bruce sang on are great especially One Word.
 
As an interesting side issue - Jack Bruce and Tony Williams planned to form a band with Jimi Hendrix back in 1970. Plans were quite advanced when ... Jimi left us. Very sad - what might have been.
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