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darkshade View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: For the prog fan that is not a prog fan
    Posted: August 17 2008 at 01:36
This is me basically. I enjoy bands that make prog rock, but I dont like prog rock. Now before you all lynch me, let me explain.

There are people on this site (generally speaking) that are into prog rock and cant get enough of it. I am not one of those people. I dont generally 'look' for prog rock. If anything I am, more or less, seeking music that is jazz, funk, jazz-fusion, etc related.

Now I wasnt always like this. Before I got into any of those genres, I got into prog rock first (i was a metal head/hard rock fan before that). And I did "look" for prog rock, because it was new for me. And i checked out all the bands one should, like YES, King Crimson, Genesis, Rush, Pink Floyd, Gentle Giant, ELP, Dream Theater, (was already into them because I was into heavy metal at that point), The Mars Volta, Porcupine Tree, Phish, Opeth, etc, etc, etc,....

I was also vaguely familiar with jazz-rock since I had a Return to Forever album, a Chick Corea Elektric Band album, and a Mahavishnu Orchestra album.

Once I was familiar with those bands and got enough of their discographies, i began to seek more and asked some of you on this forum where the next step would be. Some of you gave me many bands to check out, and I did and found myself very disappointed.

So I thought, "I enjoy some of this jazz-fusion type of music, maybe I'll explore this stuff more."

So I did and found myself loving it even more than prog rock. Now I was listening to both at the same time, mixing it up and such.

Then I discovered the music of Frank Zappa. This was perfect for me, because he made avant-guard prog rock, jazz-rock/fusion, funk, and smart comedy rock. His vast music took up so much of my time that I almost forgot about all the other music I liked.

When the thrill of his music began to wear down (this is months and months later btw...) I decided to explore jazz-fusion even deeper, going beyond what is on this site (but i still discover stuff here to this day!) This eventually led me to Jazz. I mean Jazz. I mean the type that was made before the late 60s. Guys like Mingus, Trane, early Miles Davis, Eric Dolphy, Charlie Parker, etc, etc, etc....

I went a little overboard and forgot how much I need some ROCK in my musical daily diet. So i began exploring funk and jazz-funk, since I believed that to be the natural progression of my musical search. I was already familiar with these 2 genre's, but I wanted to be MORE familiar with them. I even had a breif Blues phase where I wanted to listen to more Blues artists. I also realized i enjoyed music with world music influences in them, although I do not own ONE world music album.

I then didnt know where to go, since I was unsure if I should explore world music deeper. So I "regressed" in my musical search and was listening to some metal, hard rock, and pop that I used to listen to but 'forgot' about, like Stevie Wonder, The Who, Led Zeppelin, The Beatles, Steely Dan, etc.. etc...

The I got hit with a big jam band crave. I was into jam bands before I got into prog rock, but I got hooked on them again and got more live shows. I then realized something...

It was during this time that I had a thought. "I love funk, and jazz and jazz-rock. But what happened to all the prog rock I was listening to a couple of years ago?" Listening to some of the jam bands like Phish, Umphrey's McGee, String Cheese Incident, or moe. reminded me of my earlier prog rock days, since these bands do play prog rock. I began getting into all the prog bands I got into when I first started listening to prog. I threw Close to the Edge on, a few King Crimson albums, Free Hand, etc... etc... I then thought "wow i love this stuff, how could i have forgotten?"

So my musical daily diet began to be evenly spread out. Throughout the day, I might listen to (for example) Red or The Power to Believe, then throw on some Herbie Hancock "Thrust", then listen to some Rush, maybe Iron Maiden, then listen to some Charles Mingus or Ornette Coleman, then maybe a Zappa album, or a Garaj Mahal album, or maybe I want to listen to a Phish or Umphrey's McGee show, then cap the night off with Miles Davis or John Scofield or Area!

But then I thought, I want to get into more prog rock, since I feel I barely skimmed the surface of the vast genre. I looked into other bands with great reviews and rating on this site. Checked out the most popular and appreciated albums by bands I had no albums by, and was AGAIN disappointed.

Why is this? Am I not checking out the right bands for me? Have I already listened to all the great innovative bands? Not that I look for innovation all the time when getting into music. I dont have any particular sound in mind (not really looking for prog metal, strictly, but I'm open-minded), but even though I've checked out various prog bands, I cant seem to latch on to any of them. Maybe because after listening to Frank Zappa so much, no other prog band could compete Wink

Maybe you guys can try to help me. Does anyone else have this problem? Like I said, I enjoy certain bands that make prog rock, but the genre as a whole I technically dont listen to... Cry


Edited by darkshade - August 17 2008 at 01:46
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2008 at 02:03
Dude, I'm a lot like you in music taste. I got into all the classic prog (Yes, Genesis, King Crimson) and some popular modern bands (Porcupine Tree, Dream Theater, Transatlantic), but when I tried to get into more obscure bands... it just didn't appeal. I'm way more into jazz (including fusion) and classical. Honestly, I think that with progressive rock, for the most part, the most popular bands are the best, or maybe a better way of putting it would be, the best bands are the ones who gain the most popularity. There is the occasional rare find that is just awesome, but usually I find that I've already heard the best of it. Which really is a compliment to the genre and it's fans, because most other types of pop music don't reward quality as much as prog does.
"It's music, and I like it" - Miles Davis on Sketches of Spain
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2008 at 02:36
Why see it as a problem? Enjoy what you enjoy, keep experimenting and go back occasionally to the albums and bands that disappointed you - you never know, some day you might change your opinion on a few of them.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2008 at 03:35
Originally posted by russellk russellk wrote:

Why see it as a problem? Enjoy what you enjoy, keep experimenting and go back occasionally to the albums and bands that disappointed you - you never know, some day you might change your opinion on a few of them.



well said...Clap
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2008 at 04:32
Originally posted by russellk russellk wrote:

Why see it as a problem? Enjoy what you enjoy, keep experimenting and go back occasionally to the albums and bands that disappointed you - you never know, some day you might change your opinion on a few of them.


I completely agree with you. I've done this many times. However, most prog bands I hear don't make me want to come back, which I never got when I originally was checking out prog rock the first time. I've gone back to some albums, and not much changed. The only recent prog bands I've recently gotten into were Area, and they play jazz-rock (among other things) and PFM.

Maybe I'm not in the right mindset.


Edited by darkshade - August 17 2008 at 04:57
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2008 at 04:36
Originally posted by King Crimson776 King Crimson776 wrote:

Dude, I'm a lot like you in music taste. I got into all the classic prog (Yes, Genesis, King Crimson) and some popular modern bands (Porcupine Tree, Dream Theater, Transatlantic), but when I tried to get into more obscure bands... it just didn't appeal. I'm way more into jazz (including fusion) and classical. Honestly, I think that with progressive rock, for the most part, the most popular bands are the best, or maybe a better way of putting it would be, the best bands are the ones who gain the most popularity. There is the occasional rare find that is just awesome, but usually I find that I've already heard the best of it. Which really is a compliment to the genre and it's fans, because most other types of pop music don't reward quality as much as prog does.


haha yes you and I do share similar opinions and tastes.


Edited by darkshade - August 17 2008 at 04:37
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2008 at 07:29
I think your situation is actually a really good thing.
We should all be looking for stuff that we like the sound of, regardless of how we categorise it.

I have had a similar thing. I have went and looked at music and found it to be lacking in emotion or the singer sings about something that seems very trivial. I do like the Mars Volta even though the lyrics don't make much sense. It is like they are making fun of lyrics being meaningful.

Often the prog stuff I like is the stuff that has been most sucessful e.g. Yes' Fragile, King Crimson's Court, Rush's Moving Pictures and even Kansas' Leftoverture. There is a reason that some prog is not popular. It is because it is crap.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2008 at 15:53
Originally posted by Tristan Campbell Tristan Campbell wrote:

I think your situation is actually a really good thing.
We should all be looking for stuff that we like the sound of, regardless of how we categorise it.

I have had a similar thing. I have went and looked at music and found it to be lacking in emotion or the singer sings about something that seems very trivial. I do like the Mars Volta even though the lyrics don't make much sense. It is like they are making fun of lyrics being meaningful.

Often the prog stuff I like is the stuff that has been most sucessful e.g. Yes' Fragile, King Crimson's Court, Rush's Moving Pictures and even Kansas' Leftoverture. There is a reason that some prog is not popular. It is because it is crap.


yea i have some Kansas albums, and they are good, and a couple of Flower Kings albums, i'll throw them on from time to time, but I have a couple of Atomic Rooster albums and Frumpy albums, and i do not like them much. especially AR get talked about a lot here, but I dont see the big deal with them
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2008 at 08:06
I don't see the problem:you enjoy music and discover new stuff suits you well.Do not hesitate to go this way!
I was born in the land of Mahavishnu,not so far from Kobaia.I'm looking for the world

of searchers with the help from

crimson king
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2008 at 12:50

Hey, wow, someone with an open mind!

Nothing wrong with that. 
 
You said you love Jazz/Rock Fusion.  Are you familiar with Brand X?  Check out "Unorthodox Behaviour" and "Morrocan Roll".  If you're not familiar with these guys, you're in for a real treat.
 
If you ARE, then you already know what I'm talking about.

Either way, nothing wrong with checking out the scene -- sometimes you may be disappointed, but nothing like being rewarded with something GREAT!
 
Peace.
Gary
"... people will always be tempted to wipe their feet on anything with WELCOME written on it"
Andy Partridge
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2008 at 13:02
I can understand the problem that the original poster has touched on, it was more or less the same for me for a very long time. A tip from my personal experience is that you should listen to your inner self and after doing that seek out the musical style that you feel could inhence that mood. For example I've been listening alot to "Talk Talk" - Spirit Of Eden/Laughing Stock (+ Mark Hollis' solo album) and a great deal of "Peter Gabriel" (4/Securaty, Us, Up). Also there's been alot of post-rock like "Samuel Jackson 5" and (ofcourse) "Godspeed You Black Emperor!"

Guess which mood I'm in right now? LOL


Edited by Rune2000 - August 19 2008 at 13:03
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2008 at 15:34
If you're a prog fan who's not a prog fan, then you're not a prog fan, so what's the point? Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2008 at 03:38
but i am a prog fan. I love many prog bands.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2008 at 05:15
I feel much the same way. I still consider prog-rock to be my favorite genre of music, but I haven't found anything worthy of a closer look in a year or so. Of course, it's not difficult to find bands that you 'like', but I miss the thrill of hearing albums like 'Red' or 'Close to the Edge' for the first time. I suppose it's naive to assume that you could make those kind of discoveries on a regular basis though. In the meantime, I've been exploring other genres (folk, jazz, indie etc) but they seem to suffer from the same disease.

I suppose when you reach a certain point in your musical education (meaning, you've heard a lot of stuff), it becomes increasingly difficult to find anything that truly rocks your boat. I maintain that I would probably like around 30 %  of all the bands in the archives, but how many would I truly love? I'm beginning to fear that there aren't many left.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2008 at 08:24
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

but i am a prog fan. I love many prog bands.

Yes, but if you are a prog fan that is not a prog fan but is a prog fan how can I make any useful suggestions? LOL
Now, if you are a prog fan that is not a prog fan but is a prog fan but aren't a prog fan, then I'd suggest you go and tip toe through the tulips with Tiny Tim or you could try some Talisma.


Edited by Slartibartfast - August 20 2008 at 08:37
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2008 at 23:25
hahaha
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2008 at 08:46
Hey Darkshade, You know I share your enthusiasm for Hancock and Miles, we both keep showing up in the same threads ha ha.
I was raised on classic early 70s prog rock. It's great stuff but there's only so many times I can listen to the same records. I keep looking for newer prog rock that I like, but there is a lot of weak material to wade through. Some post 70s bands I like include Ozric Tentaclees, Birds and Buildings, Jaga Jazzist, Shining, Maserati and Kensos.
There is also a lot of great progressive music in the modern world of electronic music, not exactly prog-rock but similar.

P.S. I don't care for new prog bands that sound like old prog bands, it's time to move on, most of the bands I listed draw on the past but still sound fresh and new.

Edited by Easy Money - August 22 2008 at 09:38
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2008 at 20:52
Here: You're a prog rock fan BUT not a fan of prog rock. ;)

And you and I  (hehee, Yes reference) share musical tastes. . . infact, I'm following the same path as you; Right now I'm at the Yes / Genesis / King Crimson / Dream Theater stage, starting Jazz; Like John Scofield and such (I'm downloading Davis's Kind of Blue right now :P). . .
Keep rockin' bro.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2008 at 17:29
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Hey Darkshade, You know I share your enthusiasm for Hancock and Miles, we both keep showing up in the same threads ha ha.
I was raised on classic early 70s prog rock. It's great stuff but there's only so many times I can listen to the same records. I keep looking for newer prog rock that I like, but there is a lot of weak material to wade through. Some post 70s bands I like include Ozric Tentacles, Birds and Buildings, Jaga Jazzist, Shining, Maserati and Kensos.
There is also a lot of great progressive music in the modern world of electronic music, not exactly prog-rock but similar.

P.S. I don't care for new prog bands that sound like old prog bands, it's time to move on, most of the bands I listed draw on the past but still sound fresh and new.


i have some Ozric Tentacles, and I like them a lot. They have a jazz-rock feel to them sometimes, but i enjoy their overall sound very much (even the newer stuff which i know some people dont agree with)

the others i have no idea about. any good suggestions, or descriptions of those other bands?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2008 at 17:39
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

but i am a prog fan. I love many prog bands.

Yes, but if you are a prog fan that is not a prog fan but is a prog fan how can I make any useful suggestions? LOL
Now, if you are a prog fan that is not a prog fan but is a prog fan but aren't a prog fan, then I'd suggest you go and tip toe through the tulips with Tiny Tim or you could try some Talisma.


well i am a prog fan. I enjoy bands that make prog rock. There's just so many bands I dont like because they either dont do it right, whether they're being too pompous, or whatever, or they sound like many other bands. i had this same problem when I was a big metal-head.

off the top of my head, here's the prog bands i like (non jazz-rock)

Yes
King Crimson
Gentle Giant
Genesis
Frank Zappa
ELP
Camel
Jethro Tull
Rush
The Mars Volta
The Flower Kings
Mr. Bungle
Gong
The Soft Machine (jazz-rock, but they're more prog anyway)
Dream Theater
Liquid Tension Experiment
Phish (yes they are prog!)
Umphrey's McGee
Kansas
Steve Hackett
The Beatles (latter-era)
Ozric Tentacles
Atomic Rooster

now this is a lot of bands, but i could make a list 2152564 times larger if I listed the jazz-rock bands I enjoyed. I guess im just picky about which bands i like. I do not like Spock's Beard or Transatlantic so do not suggest them. I would have like Transatlantic had Neil Morse not been there.


Edited by darkshade - August 24 2008 at 17:43
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