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E-Dub View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 13:16
ClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClap

Just finished it. Best album of the year (so far) without a doubt!

E


Edited by E-Dub - September 10 2008 at 13:27
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 13:22
Originally posted by prog-chick prog-chick wrote:

Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Weird DRM stuff, man. I dunno even how this works Confused DRM pisses off people like nothing else, and the torrent community is probably not the best thing to piss off. 
 
OR
 
the torrent thieving community is probably not the best thing to piss off.
 
LOLLOLLOL
 
 
Why,  prey tell,  is it not a good idea to piss off the poor hard done by torrenters?
 
 


Meh, take the advice if you want to, but I think DRM pisses off people. Personally, I cannot say, because this is the first encounter I've had with DRM. Confused One should be worried because I think people who would originally feel any amount of guilt by torrenting have that guilt completely replaced by anger at the attempt to control the media. Essentially, it is like asking the torrent community to do their worst. It's pure antagonism.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 13:27
^^NOW this is where Shawn's "sad" response truly belongs.

E
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 13:29
Let's not turn this into another of the endless debates on the rights and wrongs of sharing, DRM etc. Marillion have taken a commercial decision to allow the legal downloading of their album, let's allow them to do that.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 13:33
Sorry Stonie, I didn't read it as advice, and why the dickens should I ?  Last time I saw Marilion was...oooh, 20 years ago, I certainly don't make decisions about DRM! !?!?!?
 
The "Torrent community"  are already doing their worst, have they no conscience? How do they sleep at night, and how do they reconcile theft?  Do they call it something else and hope God will be fooled? 
Do they turn the other cheek when musicians they once admired quit and walk away with nothing other than debt and unhappiness?  Do they even have a soul?  I bet they have real proud parents!
 
Unless you have permission from the  rights owner you are doing someone a serious wrong.
 
In  this case marillion seem to have waivered that choice, and said "Go ahead fellas, fill yer boots"  and you have the bare faced cheek to complain about the way it's served? 
 
 
sheeeeeesh!
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 13:36

Ok, Sorry Bob, If I  promise to add nothing more can my post stay?

 
FO rthe record, and I did say this to E-Dub off line earlier, I REALLY really hope this works for Marillion, I seriously do, I think their fan base is just about big enough for it to work with the publicity, for smaller bands it is of course another nail in the coffin!
Embarrassed
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 13:36
Actually, it's a sad state of affairs that it's even open for debate when the answer is glaringly clear; however, my focus will be on the quality of the music therein...because it is awesome.

E
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 13:45
Originally posted by E-Dub E-Dub wrote:

however, my focus will be on the quality of the music therein...because it is awesome.


And it seems to be thus far! Tongue

One final word from me about the larger issue...I really don't see how making albums available on torrents is likely to stem any downloading. People download because it's free, that's the primary reason. The way to carry on as an artist in this stage of the internet is to gain a strong fanbase and fan loyalty, to rely more on live shows and other non-digitally shareable products, and to try as best as you can to not piss off the people who currently have the ability to take away your album revenue. And my perception is that Marillion is doing as best of a job as any band can be expected of doing, especially by creating incentives to own albums themselves and not just the music, with special editions and all that.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 14:06
Originally posted by prog-chick prog-chick wrote:

Ok, Sorry Bob, If I  promise to add nothing more can my post stay?

 
FO rthe record, and I did say this to E-Dub off line earlier, I REALLY really hope this works for Marillion, I seriously do, I think their fan base is just about big enough for it to work with the publicity, for smaller bands it is of course another nail in the coffin!
Embarrassed
 
P-C, look at it this way.  Now that I don't have to spend any money to get the new Marillion album which is free for download, I can use that extra money to purchase the new Pendragon album. Smile 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 16:29
Thanks to ProgRob for the tip.  And thanks Marillion, too. ClapClapClapClapClapClapClap

 I like what I've heard so far.  My personal policy is that if a band is nice enough to let me try their album for free, I will most certainly buy a hard copy when it becomes available if I like it and if I don't, I wont keep the tracks.  I paid Radiohead a small amount for their download, got the CD when it came out (worth it for the cover art).  Did the same with the new NIN.  And it looks like I'll do the same for this one.

Edited by Slartibartfast - September 10 2008 at 16:31
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 16:48
Originally posted by BigBoss BigBoss wrote:

this is just sad


Do you mean that you're sad about Marillion making the album available for free download?  Not good for business.  You guys are getting hit in many ways (from bands making albums available for free, to bands selling albums online directly, to illegitimate downloading etc.).  If things keep up, you're hardly the only one in your biz who risks going from being a big boss to a little bass (as in the fish -- big fish, little fish).


Edited by Logan - September 10 2008 at 16:55
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 16:54
Can anyone give me a link to where I can download the album?  I'll be buying the album anyway, but I really want to go ahead and hear it!  I've never downloaded P2P (I love CD's!) so I'm skeptical because I don't want to accidently download a virus or something.
.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 17:28
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by BigBoss BigBoss wrote:

this is just sad


Do you mean that you're sad about Marillion making the album available for free download?  Not good for business.  You guys are getting hit in many ways (from bands making albums available for free, to bands selling albums online directly, to illegitimate downloading etc.).  If things keep up, you're hardly the only one in your biz who risks going from being a big boss to a little bass (as in the fish -- big fish, little fish).


What is sad is that the artist is basically saying they can not make money by selling a CD.  They have to resort to pushing ancillary merchandise through mass e-mailings to make a buck (or quid as it were). I see a lot more of this happening.  If it works out for Marillion, then great.  But it can't work for everyone.

I'm not a Marillion fan and only own Brave.  I would like to check it out if it is as good as Eric says, but don't know that I want a bunch of Marillion e-mails in my in box.  And if I don't buy the CD, should I feel guilty for downloading and not buying merchandise?
Biggles was in rehab last Saturday
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 18:08
I'll buy the album anyway, as I did with "In Rainbows" , there 'll be extras on the official release , for sure.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 18:22
Originally posted by johnobvious johnobvious wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by BigBoss BigBoss wrote:

this is just sad


Do you mean that you're sad about Marillion making the album available for free download?  Not good for business.  You guys are getting hit in many ways (from bands making albums available for free, to bands selling albums online directly, to illegitimate downloading etc.).  If things keep up, you're hardly the only one in your biz who risks going from being a big boss to a little bass (as in the fish -- big fish, little fish).


What is sad is that the artist is basically saying they can not make money by selling a CD.  They have to resort to pushing ancillary merchandise through mass e-mailings to make a buck (or quid as it were). I see a lot more of this happening.  If it works out for Marillion, then great.  But it can't work for everyone.

I'm not a Marillion fan and only own Brave.  I would like to check it out if it is as good as Eric says, but don't know that I want a bunch of Marillion e-mails in my in box.  And if I don't buy the CD, should I feel guilty for downloading and not buying merchandise?

Of course not, this has nothing to do with quiltiness, it's just a matter of how you like your  collection to be.
Thounsands users are going to download it via torrents or elsewhere, anyways
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 19:41
Originally posted by E-Dub E-Dub wrote:

It's my understanding that it's only available to those who have pre-ordered the album anyway, but I could be wrong.

E


There's the low quality (like there's any other type!) MP3 version, the link for which was given to pre-orderers in the special email message last night.

Then there's the DRM-encumbered WMAs that are going to be seeded to the torrent networks.

That's the way I understand it.

I think the DRM move is a really, really bad one -- it will probably really annoy the torrenters. Let's hope it is benign and doesn't end up anything resembling a repeat of the Sony rootkit fiasco -- that would be seriously bad news for Marillion and their reputation.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 21:47
OK folks, let's take a look at a little of the real world (as lifted from Bob Lefsetz' newsletter with full attribution etc)


"From: Charles Kennedy
Subject: Can't even GIVE it away

Hey Bob
 
I run Invisible Hands Music, London indie label, home of Thomas Dolby, (ex Strangler) Hugh Cornwell and the (reformed with new singer) Jam.
 
Our roster has included various other artists, and we had a stock clearout the other day, put boxes of old stock on the pavement with various charming variations of "Take me, I'm free" written on. The CDs were mostly by a semi-well known Britpop band, six Top 40 singles in their heyday. And in any case, great packaging, titles etc. I could watch out the office window  (in a hip street, 120,000 rock n roll-friendly visitors each day of every weekend) how people reacted to the giveaway. The vast majority of people who stopped would pick up a CD, look at it, flip it over, look at it a bit more, then put it back. Even in the one street in Europe most devoted to the pursuit of the rock n roll dream, you literally can't give away the physical product any more. Even though, as an indie label, I rely on shipping physical product, I couldn't help giggle at the idiots at the majors who think there's a future in selling recorded music, esp in CD form. It's laughable. They should put a few boxes of one of their great new bands out on the street and see how the public feel about their crappy bands."


OK now, back to reality ?

P.S. Here another good one from the same newsletter (again with full attribution)

"From: Jeffrey Campagna
Subject: RE: Not Selling On iTunes

Hi Bob,

I know this is of little importance in the major scheme of things.

In regards to ...
Isn't this how the labels got in trouble to begin with?  By making customers buy an entire, overpriced CD to get the single, the only track they wanted, oftentimes the only good track on the album?

I would say this also...

I know you consider vinyl a zit on the ass of the business or whatever you called it.  But you also mentioned yesterday how the vinyl revival is perpetrated by dying brick and mortar indie stores.

Being one who sells to, amongst others, brick and mortar stores I see it as the opposite. I constantly hear folks complaining how the majors are trying to push vinyl as if records had disappeared off the face of the earth. Slowly raising the prices to exorbitant amounts at the same time. Trying to create this wave of hysteria how vinyl "is back" and kids are learning to love it.

Having also worked in small indie new/used record stores I also relate to the fact that vinyl never "went away" in the indie store world. Kids have constantly been buying records.

So when you start seeing articles about the "vinyl is back" wave it all ties back to some major label pr idiot trying to push product in the NY Times. Trying to grab what last vestige of cash they can pillage from their catalog at a ridiculously over inflated price under the auspices of collectability.  I feel bad for kids spending $19.99-$34.99 for the same records they can still buy in a used record store for $3.99. Soon enough though they'll discover the new/used indie stores and realize the majors are still trying to take as much money out of their pocket as they can."


P.P.S. - I'm in Spin-It records once a week checking out the new arrivals bin.



_______________________________________







Edited by debrewguy - September 10 2008 at 21:51
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 22:04
Well, I'm in the process of putting it on a CD so I can listen to it on the way to and from work for a few days.  I will still buy a regular hard copy.  Their last release was a bit overshadowed by other stuff coming out at the time but I think they are having better timing this year for me at least.  Just digging in. Big%20smile

Is there any reason why this album hasn't been posted yet?  I'll do it.


Edited by Slartibartfast - September 10 2008 at 22:15
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 22:51

If this is good, I'm definitely going to buy a copy, and I am really excited for this.

www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2008 at 04:07
For the person who said they just wanted to try out the music and didnt want to be bombarded with emails from Marillion.  You can do that with the wma file - it has a popup video attached, but you can still hear all the music on your computer.  However you cannot burn the track elsewhere.

Only if you like the music, and want a burnable mp3 copy, do you have to repsond to the popup window with your email address - then you can get the album for free in burnable form.

I would also note that Marillion do not bombard people with emails - one every couple of mnonths - hell Amazon are much worse!
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