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Rush vs The Beatles

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Poll Question: Who do you prefer ?
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rogerthat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Rush vs The Beatles
    Posted: February 20 2013 at 23:30
Originally posted by Catcher10


I believe based on numerous interviews with 70-80-90-00-10 artists who cite the Beatles as an influence most of the time, and I said this, is about their song, lyric writing ability...That's what most, not all, artists like about them. I am sure some like their music style and or how they may have designed a certain portion of their catalog, but in general its about how they wrote lyrics.

That may be true for the likes of Oasis or Arctic Monkeys but I guess in the 70s, wordsmiths like Dylan, Paul Simon, Ray Davies and Morrison would have been regarded in greater light for their lyrics than the Beatles.  I think you are looking too much for direct resemblances but that's not the main contribution of Beatles (though I'll come to it in a bit).  It was simply, at first, to popularize and legitimize the idea that musicians could write their own songs and didn't need to be controlled tightly by the labels. And in the second half of their career, to ride their success to experiment freely with an astonishing variety of sounds and to harness the potential of the studio to the fullest.  Beatles influenced a whole set of musicians at that time to be ambitious and expand the frontiers of rock in ways that were then unprecedented.   

However to address your last para, their influence goes well beyond just pop artists (and I am not sure how much, if any, of it I can hear in Michael Jackson whose music was rooted in R&B/funk and much more influenced by Stevie Wonder or EWF).   Radiohead were inspired by the format and structure of Happiness is a warm gun in making Paranoid Android.  The chorus of Karma Police bears strong resemblances to Sexy Sadie.  The interlude of You Give Me All Your Money is like a section of Yes music, maybe something from Starship Trooper.   As for Pink Floyd, there are similarities between Something and Brain Damage.  The radically different mood and the vocal delivery conceal it, but it's there nevertheless.  I could come up with similar instances for Queen, Genesis or Supertramp (especially the last's Hodgson-composed songs) if I racked my brains but I think this illustrates the point enough.    In the 70s, American rock music still had a more blues based flavour and I assume Beatles didn't really fit in at that point but there could not have been very many melodic British rock bands from the 70s who could have completed escaped a Beatles influence.

Originally posted by Catcher10

Where did I state that I did not think Zeppelin influenced Rush? I never said such a thing...I fully agree that Zeppelin was a major influence on Rush as well as The Who were and Cream and The Yardbirds. Again this comment is putting words in my mouth. Please everyone else READ MY LIPS....I do not believe this!  

If you agree, then it is counterproductive to question on what grounds am I so sure of why there wouldn't be Rush without LZ.  As a major influence, they profoundly shaped Rush's music, down to Lee's Plant-like high pitched vocals up to Hemispheres.  In an alternative universe, if there had been no LZ and the same three men had formed a band called Rush, it would sound very different from the Rush we know.  
 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Doorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2013 at 03:11
Both bands are great, though if you make me to choose - Beatles.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tristan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2013 at 17:29
I saw Rush last summer with my son. I give Rush the nod for longevity and still putting out great music. The Beatles folded before I could drive.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NYSPORTSFAN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2013 at 20:50
Originally posted by rogerthat

Originally posted by Catcher10


I believe based on numerous interviews with 70-80-90-00-10 artists who cite the Beatles as an influence most of the time, and I said this, is about their song, lyric writing ability...That's what most, not all, artists like about them. I am sure some like their music style and or how they may have designed a certain portion of their catalog, but in general its about how they wrote lyrics.

That may be true for the likes of Oasis or Arctic Monkeys but I guess in the 70s, wordsmiths like Dylan, Paul Simon, Ray Davies and Morrison would have been regarded in greater light for their lyrics than the Beatles.  I think you are looking too much for direct resemblances but that's not the main contribution of Beatles (though I'll come to it in a bit).  It was simply, at first, to popularize and legitimize the idea that musicians could write their own songs and didn't need to be controlled tightly by the labels. And in the second half of their career, to ride their success to experiment freely with an astonishing variety of sounds and to harness the potential of the studio to the fullest.  Beatles influenced a whole set of musicians at that time to be ambitious and expand the frontiers of rock in ways that were then unprecedented.   

However to address your last para, their influence goes well beyond just pop artists (and I am not sure how much, if any, of it I can hear in Michael Jackson whose music was rooted in R&B/funk and much more influenced by Stevie Wonder or EWF).   Radiohead were inspired by the format and structure of Happiness is a warm gun in making Paranoid Android.  The chorus of Karma Police bears strong resemblances to Sexy Sadie.  The interlude of You Give Me All Your Money is like a section of Yes music, maybe something from Starship Trooper.   As for Pink Floyd, there are similarities between Something and Brain Damage.  The radically different mood and the vocal delivery conceal it, but it's there nevertheless.  I could come up with similar instances for Queen, Genesis or Supertramp (especially the last's Hodgson-composed songs) if I racked my brains but I think this illustrates the point enough.    In the 70s, American rock music still had a more blues based flavour and I assume Beatles didn't really fit in at that point but there could not have been very many melodic British rock bands from the 70s who could have completed escaped a Beatles influence.

Originally posted by Catcher10

Where did I state that I did not think Zeppelin influenced Rush? I never said such a thing...I fully agree that Zeppelin was a major influence on Rush as well as The Who were and Cream and The Yardbirds. Again this comment is putting words in my mouth. Please everyone else READ MY LIPS....I do not believe this!  

If you agree, then it is counterproductive to question on what grounds am I so sure of why there wouldn't be Rush without LZ.  As a major influence, they profoundly shaped Rush's music, down to Lee's Plant-like high pitched vocals up to Hemispheres.  In an alternative universe, if there had been no LZ and the same three men had formed a band called Rush, it would sound very different from the Rush we know.  
 

 
Interesting take songs like "Taxman", "Tomorrow Never Knows & "Helter Skelter" or the grungie type blues song of "Yer Blues" and you hear strong traces of modern rock music of bands like The Red Hot Chilli Peppers, The Chemical Brothers, Nirvana and The White Stripes.
 
One form of 70's music that might be forgotten on a prog site would be Power Pop. There is no denying The Beatles influence on all of Power Pop. I can easily see The Beatles influence on prog or more experimental types of music. Albums like Revolver to Magical Mystery Tour were not really grounded by the rhythm of rock or blues but more in experimental orchestrated sounds or electronic sound collage forms with a heavy melodic content in creating odd sounds. The musicians and albums the Beatles  influenced is staggering to think of. Many of the albums I can think of is The Zombies Odessey & Oracle, Oasis Be Here Now, Radiohead O.K Computer, The Pretty Things S.F. Sorrow, Pink Pipers At Gates of Dawn, Prince Around The World, The Beach Pet Sounds and so on and so on. The Jefferson Airplane re-recorded After Bathing At Baxters after hearing Sgt. Pepper and The Doors had a early acetate of Sgt. Pepper which influenced the Doors to experiment in the studio.
 
How many prog albums or even rock albums in general are based on conceptual themes with tracks linking into each other with a relation to the album cover art-work like Sgt. Pepper? The examples are countless. That is one of many examples. By the way there is one member of Rush that is influenced by a Beatle and that would be Geddy Lee who is influenced Macca's melodic bass style.
 
 
 


Edited by NYSPORTSFAN - February 21 2013 at 20:54
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2013 at 17:18
NEWS!!! Al DiMeola new album plays Beatles ClapAl Di Meola plays Beatles and more as his latest project! The world famous guitarist has come to Abbey Road, London to record a new CD dedicated to the Beatles featuring a number of Beatles covers as well as a couple of new Al Di Meola pieces inspired by the fab four.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2013 at 18:07
How this thread got to page 27 is quite simply beyond me...

Anyway, I think I'll go for ze Beatles.
Kudos for a strange poll though.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2013 at 18:43
Originally posted by Guldbamsen

How this thread got to page 27 is quite simply beyond me...

Anyway, I think I'll go for ze Beatles.
Kudos for a strange poll though.
 
hahahaha Guldbamsen, it seems to have become a controversial poll and indeed kudos for the strange poll LOLHug 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Horizons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2013 at 18:45
I don't know how The Beatles could be winning this. 
Sure they were influential, but i can't believe that people on PA would prefer them musically to Rush..

It is same issue with KC's debut. Influence doesn't equal quality.  


Edited by Horizons - February 23 2013 at 18:46
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2013 at 18:50
Originally posted by Horizons

I don't know how The Beatles could be winning this. 
Sure they were influential, but i can't believe that people on PA would prefer them musically to Rush..

It is same issue with KC's debut. Influence doesn't equal quality.  
 
I am not much a fan of a 3 member band nor do I think Geddy's high pitched vocals as impressive, I am the only prog listening female so far that thinks so anyway, but pls don't shoot me Ouch
ELP was also a 3 member band but they had great guests on their albums especially guitarists. Approve
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Horizons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2013 at 18:55
I realize there are going to be some people that dislike Rush. But to have this lead is blowing my mind. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2013 at 18:57
Originally posted by Horizons

I realize there are going to be some people that dislike Rush. But to have this lead is blowing my mind. 
 
You have a very nice mind, certainly not worth to be blown up by any poll WinkHug unless mind blowing Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2013 at 19:05
Originally posted by Horizons

I don't know how The Beatles could be winning this. 
Sure they were influential, but i can't believe that people on PA would prefer them musically to Rush.

It is same issue with KC's debut. Influence doesn't equal quality.
I think some people decided to found their choices on influence when their dilemmas founded on quality went unresolved.

Edited by Dayvenkirq - February 23 2013 at 19:07
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2013 at 19:11
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

Originally posted by Horizons

I don't know how The Beatles could be winning this. 
Sure they were influential, but i can't believe that people on PA would prefer them musically to Rush.

It is same issue with KC's debut. Influence doesn't equal quality.
I think some people decided to found their choices on influence when their dilemmas founded on quality went unresolved.
 
I have argumented above on this forum why I like and prefer the Beatles, tastes differ and difference of opinion is ok too Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2013 at 20:16
Originally posted by Kati


Originally posted by Guldbamsen

How this thread got to page 27 is quite simply beyond me...

Anyway, I think I'll go for ze Beatles.
Kudos for a strange poll though.

 
hahahaha Guldbamsen, it seems to have become a controversial poll and indeed kudos for the strange poll LOL<span style='color: black; line-height: 115%; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; font-size: 7pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-ansi-: EN; mso-fareast-: EN-US; mso-bidi-: AR-SA;' lang="EN">Hug </span>


Things get controversial round here in the most ludicrous ways. It's part of why I love PA...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2013 at 20:17
Wow. I seem to have infected your post with my cold...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote WanderingLogician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2013 at 20:37
Ringo Starr and Neil Peart should have a drum battle to settle this...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2013 at 20:44
They should battle it out in a beard stand off.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2013 at 23:55
Originally posted by Horizons

I don't know how The Beatles could be winning this. 
Sure they were influential, but i can't believe that people on PA would prefer them musically to Rush..

It is same issue with KC's debut. Influence doesn't equal quality.  


Speaking for myself, musically also I prefer the Beatles, by far.   Way, way  more interesting, way more variety and way more economy in the way they handled their ideas.  It comes back again to Day in the Life for me.   There's not one track in Rush's career that to me is anywhere near that adventurous.   It just comes off as so conservative, albeit technically dazzling, to me. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2013 at 00:08
Originally posted by Guldbamsen

Originally posted by Kati


Originally posted by Guldbamsen

How this thread got to page 27 is quite simply beyond me...

Anyway, I think I'll go for ze Beatles.
Kudos for a strange poll though.

 
hahahaha Guldbamsen, it seems to have become a controversial poll and indeed kudos for the strange poll LOL<span style='color: black; line-height: 115%; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; font-size: 7pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-ansi-: EN; mso-fareast-: EN-US; mso-bidi-: AR-SA;' lang="EN">Hug </span>


Things get controversial round here in the most ludicrous ways. It's part of why I love PA...
 
Guldbamsen Hug I like P.A. too plus everyone is very nice here even if we at times disagree plus the humor is too funny LOL


Edited by Kati - February 24 2013 at 00:08
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2013 at 06:42
Well, things can get pretty heated in here, but I'd like to think that the music pulls us back into friendships and interesting banter.

For what it's worth, then I applaud you for sticking around. We are in dire need of some feminine points of view.... Us dudes have a tendency to shred when we should be harmonizing and vice versa, and sometimes it get's a little outta hand(maybe that only made sense in my head, sorry)
Apart from you, we only have Lizzy, the baldies, Glucose and Raff(perhaps?). So yeah, cool to see you hanging with the proggers. Now go fetch some more girls
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