Flower Kings Appreciation Thread

infandous wrote: Yeah, what I've heard of BBT's English Electric (just part 1 so far) is basically what you say.  I'm not sure I really get the appeal.  Well, actually, the appeal is all too obvious I suppose, but it's so much like what has come before that I just can't get into it.  It's strange, because a lot of the prog I love is very deeply rooted in the same approach that BBT, and even Wilson, are taking lately.  I guess it's just that I was more interested in Wilson's more modern take on prog and psychedelic music in PTree than I am in this nostalgia trip of his.  Though, conversely, I enjoy it more than the PTree stuff overall.  Strange. I guess with both BBT and Wilson, it's just TOO perfectly crafted.  Too planned and calculated and clinical, as we've been saying.  Maybe I'm just getting burned out or jaded about the "prog" genre, I don't know.  Of course, last night I put on Back In The World Of Adventures and was reminded of why I still like prog so much.  I just don't see anyone doing music with such feeling and emotion anymore (not even the Kings themselves, for that matter).  70's prog was about experiment, adventure, and discovery.  Modern prog seems far more concerned with perfection and presentation.  Both have their place and appeal, even to me, but I still think I far prefer the former over the latter.

Edited by dennismoore - March 21 2013 at 16:10

dennismoore wrote: Roland113 wrote: Ok, here's the other one that I've got:   For Dennis: "The First Five Seconds of The Chicken Farmer Song . . . Looped"      Actually, I could really go for that!   5 seconds would be enough for me. What have you guys got against "happy"???   Your idea of a "new epic version of You Don't Know What You've Got" gives me nightmares.  That would be enough to give me "planetary destroying" rage.   @Infandous, excellent point about Morse/Wilson.  They both bore me to to tears.  I think Steven has done the dreary & helpless thing to death now, not to mention his horribly derivitave graphics which copycat the stuff Pink Floyd did on the Wall, but Wilson's graphics are far less interesting.   I lost interest with Porcupine Tree with Fear Of A Blank Planet. Its funny how Steven Wilson was critical of Roine.  Steven is the one who now is a copycat of King Crimson and a parody of himself with his dark & bleak music on EVERY record he makes.  Yuck.  Hmm, where is my new Glass Hammer CD???  I am enjoying the new Mystery record as well...   The mad scientist in me says we should take halves of Wilson's & Morse's brains and put the 2 hemispheres together. That would make some cool music.

dennismoore wrote: infandous wrote: Yeah, what I've heard of BBT's English Electric (just part 1 so far) is basically what you say.  I'm not sure I really get the appeal.  Well, actually, the appeal is all too obvious I suppose, but it's so much like what has come before that I just can't get into it.  It's strange, because a lot of the prog I love is very deeply rooted in the same approach that BBT, and even Wilson, are taking lately.  I guess it's just that I was more interested in Wilson's more modern take on prog and psychedelic music in PTree than I am in this nostalgia trip of his.  Though, conversely, I enjoy it more than the PTree stuff overall.  Strange. I guess with both BBT and Wilson, it's just TOO perfectly crafted.  Too planned and calculated and clinical, as we've been saying.  Maybe I'm just getting burned out or jaded about the "prog" genre, I don't know.  Of course, last night I put on Back In The World Of Adventures and was reminded of why I still like prog so much.  I just don't see anyone doing music with such feeling and emotion anymore (not even the Kings themselves, for that matter).  70's prog was about experiment, adventure, and discovery.  Modern prog seems far more concerned with perfection and presentation.  Both have their place and appeal, even to me, but I still think I far prefer the former over the latter.   Hey dude, more than ever I realise that there is no way to define which prog or music in general works for a listener. For me, Big Big Train is painfully derrivitave of Genesis and I really can't listen to them much, on the other hand, I LOVE Glass Hammer's IF, though critics pan it for being too much like YES.  I love Mystery as well, though some say its too much like RUSH.   In addition, I find Steven Wilson's recent stuff to be poorly immitated King Crimson, yet the prog world eats it up. Its so funny that Wilson ripped our friend Roine as being derrivative of old prog.  That is hypocracy, I say.   Its perhaps an endless debate about what makes music "accepted" or rejected by a listener.  God bless the child who knows what music makes him happy.

I myself am not a big fan of BBT, I don't see the Genesis clone thing though - because if they were I would probably like them a lot more......The English Electric - just didn't grab me on first spin - but Wilson's Raven - grabbed me right on the first spin...I love the last two tracks...definately the best stuff Wilson has ever produced...mind you there is a lot I haven't heard so I may be wrong...

Roland113 wrote: dennismoore wrote: infandous wrote: Yeah, what I've heard of BBT's English Electric (just part 1 so far) is basically what you say.  I'm not sure I really get the appeal.  Well, actually, the appeal is all too obvious I suppose, but it's so much like what has come before that I just can't get into it.  It's strange, because a lot of the prog I love is very deeply rooted in the same approach that BBT, and even Wilson, are taking lately.  I guess it's just that I was more interested in Wilson's more modern take on prog and psychedelic music in PTree than I am in this nostalgia trip of his.  Though, conversely, I enjoy it more than the PTree stuff overall.  Strange. I guess with both BBT and Wilson, it's just TOO perfectly crafted.  Too planned and calculated and clinical, as we've been saying.  Maybe I'm just getting burned out or jaded about the "prog" genre, I don't know.  Of course, last night I put on Back In The World Of Adventures and was reminded of why I still like prog so much.  I just don't see anyone doing music with such feeling and emotion anymore (not even the Kings themselves, for that matter).  70's prog was about experiment, adventure, and discovery.  Modern prog seems far more concerned with perfection and presentation.  Both have their place and appeal, even to me, but I still think I far prefer the former over the latter.   Hey dude, more than ever I realise that there is no way to define which prog or music in general works for a listener. For me, Big Big Train is painfully derrivitave of Genesis and I really can't listen to them much, on the other hand, I LOVE Glass Hammer's IF, though critics pan it for being too much like YES.  I love Mystery as well, though some say its too much like RUSH.   In addition, I find Steven Wilson's recent stuff to be poorly immitated King Crimson, yet the prog world eats it up. Its so funny that Wilson ripped our friend Roine as being derrivative of old prog.  That is hypocracy, I say.   Its perhaps an endless debate about what makes music "accepted" or rejected by a listener.  God bless the child who knows what music makes him happy. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing Dennis, something to the effect of 'who the heck is Wilson to go and replicate the Crimson meets Genesis vibe when he was just giving Stolt a large amount of grief for not being original enough.  I'll be honest, The Raven sounds like a much bigger clone of 70's prog than anything done by The Flower Kings.  I guess, despite my general ambivalence for Tomas Bodin he does not sound like a seventies wanna be, he is very much his own keyboard player.

Yes, Wilson did refer to TFK's and TA as "the death of progressive rock", in an interview 8 YEARS AGO!!  Seriously, he apologized for the statements a couple of years ago, and has admitted that he likes prog and wants to make prog, using influences from the past.  Let it go people.

Personally, I would not say that Raven is no more, or less, derivative than any Flower Kings album.  It actually has far more than just Crimson influence, and is much less derivative than any Glass Hammer album I've ever heard (and I actually like some of them).......or Big Big Train, for that matter.  Still, it IS regressive.  But damn good for being that.

I understand not wanting to like Wilson, as I resisted for many years.  When I finally just sat down and gave an objective listen to some PTree stuff, I couldn't help but be impressed.  He certainly seems to be the guy that "real" prog fans love to hate.  Having said all that, the constant dark, moody, and depressing lyrics and atmospheres have gotta a bit old.  I wonder if he's even capable of writing positive, happy stuff?    (actually, he is......the song The Rest Will Flow is quite upbeat with very upbeat lyrics..........but it's the only one in his entire catalog like that that I've heard)

He does come off as rather arrogant, but considering he's been more successful than pretty much any modern prog artist on this site, I think he can be forgiven for thinking that he's doing something right.




Edited by infandous - March 22 2013 at 09:16

infandous wrote: darkshade wrote: Roland113 wrote: Yeah, I'm kind of getting tired of the Neal penned eighty minute epics as well . . . there is nothing wrong with a ten to fifteen minute song. That's the thing about Momentum, besides the giant epic, the shorter songs are some of his best shorter songs, especially Thoughts Part 5, Smoke and Mirrors, and the title track. Testimony 2 was full of shorter songs too. As for your question about what I don't like musically, I'm not into that hardcore "Screamo" music, or whatever it's called these days, most modern metal, country (the kind most people think is country), Frank Sinatra-type music, and dub-step for the most part. Technically, Testimony 2 was one big song, according to Neal

Well the tracks were grouped into 3 sections, and the songs flow into each other during each section, so I kinda thought of it (and T1) as groups of 20 minute songs divided into smaller tracks. Because of that, though, you can look at them as individual songs, and some work that way (as opposed to The Whirlwind, which I believe listening to the whole is stronger than listening to any individual track.)


Edited by darkshade - March 22 2013 at 10:25

zumacraig wrote: I guess one genre I presently loathe is the solo singer/songwriter stuff.  The market is saturated with these precious fakers.  Especially the indie folk/country stuff.  Ridiculously earnest lyrics, pretentiousness,

Roland113 wrote:   I'll be honest, The Raven sounds like a much bigger clone of 70's prog than anything done by The Flower Kings.  I guess, despite my general ambivalence for Tomas Bodin he does not sound like a seventies wanna be, he is very much his own keyboard player.

And the singer is David Benoit.  I don't remember listening to that album thinking it sounded like Rush.  I will need to give it another listen.

dennismoore wrote: rushfan4 wrote: And the singer is David Benoit.  I don't remember listening to that album thinking it sounded like Rush.  I will need to give it another listen.   Yeah, that's the knock on them I have read here at PA.  I happen to love the combo of BD's voice with the guitar player's work.  I have played it very loud at home and in the car.  David's voice really shines at high volumes.  Or maybe I just like to BLAST my music?   Have you heard the new RUSH-2112 5.1 mix?

I like David Benoit's voice and just for the record, I am not disagreeing with your assessment that that album sounded like Rush, I just don't remember thinking that when I listened to it, but I've not listened to it in a while.  It will be interesting listening to it to see if it sounds like Rush or not.