Flower Kings Appreciation Thread

Less than half of 700, so less than 350. They were 180 I believe? Still expensive but for nearly 4 hours of my favorite band.

Horizons wrote: Less than half of 700, so less than 350. They were 180 I believe? Still expensive but for nearly 4 hours of my favorite band.

Yeah man, ticket prices for real popular bands are criminal, I say.  I love RUSH as well and have seen them many times, but I personally draw the live at around 50.00 a ticket.

I saw The Who - Quadrophenia tour in 1996 for 45.00.  It was awesome!  Two years later The Who decided to charge over $150.00  for their next tour.  WTF???  I love The WHO so much and always will, but they can rot in Hell for charging that much.  Greed has taken over this world, I say....   Suffice it to say, I have not seen The Who since.

I would have loved to go see RUSH or Roger Waters do The Wall, but not for the $$$ they extort these days.  I have a  family to take care of.  Quite frankly:

Blowing $300.00(pair of tickets) for a 2.5 hour concert is like blowing $300.00 in booze, drugs and hookers for one night of partying!   Not gonna do that to my family.  That is just stoo-pid.

Now, if a pair of party-girls came with those 150.00 tickets... that would be a different story.   

M27Barney wrote: Can't think of the most expensive tickets I've bought? Can't be more than £30.00. The best gigs I went to were all cheap as chips with audiences that could be counted by one person who wouldn't have to take his socks off either.....

 
You thinkin' of Pallas at The Gallery in about '83?  I'll bet that cost well less than a fiver.  There were about 50-60 people in and I'll tell you (as will Barney) that was some gig.

The cost of tickets these days is a joke.  I've got tickets for DT (well you have to don't you ) and they were £40 ($60) each, but our seats are half way back, the best of the seats at that price.  If you wanted a ticket in the front stalls it was £60 which is unbeievable.  I know they're popular and all but.........

At the weekend I went to a festival full of tribute bands and admission was free.  Sure, the booze was quite dear but it didn't cost anything to get in so can't grumble.  The bands were really good too.  I saw tributes of Iron Maiden, Ozzy/Sabbath, Red Hot Chilis, Rage Against The Machine, Pantera, Skid Row , Metallica and Slipknot.  Got absolutely pissed and had a really great day out.

Anybody else got any gigs lined up?

M27Barney wrote: Can't think of the most expensive tickets I've bought? Can't be more than £30.00. The best gigs I went to were all cheap as chips with audiences that could be counted by one person who wouldn't have to take his socks off either.....

M27Barney wrote: northern England chips with a rag-rolled babbies-yead and mushy peas and a couple of barm cakes.....

Brilliant! I'll bet there's not many people who will know what you're on about nice northern delicacy

infandous wrote: Well Dennis, if you are saying that the modern bands are not as good as the old timers were back in the 70's, I'd have to agree.  All the bands you list I like better than the more recent incarnations of Yes, Rush, ELP, etc., though. Also, I find Beardfish to be the same caliber of those 70's bands in the here and now.  Sure, they don't have any "hits', but that would never happen these days anyway and is increasingly meaningless in the new music landscape. It wasn't long ago that I was in the camp that says nothing compares to 70's prog, but in the past few years I've changed my mind on that score.  The problem is, that the music that moves you most in your youth is what will determine your musical preference for the rest of your life (there are, of course, always  exceptions).  At least, that is what I've come to realize with myself and all the people I know well.  It takes a real effort to break out of that and even when you do, there is still that lack of intense enjoyment that music gave you back in your younger days.  Just my view on it, based in my experience and that of people close to me, anyway. True, the Flower King have no equivalent to Yessongs........but the first performance I saw of them was damn close, let me tell you.

Wow, as usual these days, we say mostly the same thing but from different angles....

One thing I disagree, I'm not stuck with the bands of my youth, that was years ago. In a decade or so for you, TFK & modern bands will become much older and their lasting appeal(or lack of) with come forefront and you can compare them, fair & square with the older generation.  I've been listening for so long, time becomes an equalizer and the age of a band is no longer relevant.  Only the merits of the music come through.

A great example would be RUSH: Hemispheres & Counterparts.
Hemispheres was when I was going through "first exposure"(as you intimated) Counterparts was many years later and I was a very different person.  Hemispheres blows away Counterparts, not because of anything about me, but because it is superior in every way on its own merits.  School's Out!   

I know of no modern prog that comes close to Karn Evil 9 1st Impression or Sound Chaser or Firth of Fifth.
Though I am quite fond of Spock's Beard - The Great Nothing. 

Frankly, if The Flower Kings did a better job of editing their epics, a tune like Garden Of Dreams would come very close.  What you don't do is as important as what you do.  Pink Floyd DSOTM's greatest asset may be its ability to say what it says without one note more.  A perfect musical expression.  Modern prog does tend to ramble on, like my esteemed colleague Zumacraig has stated.

Hmm, I am surprised you put Beardfish up with YES & ELP...  Their sophomoric growling is so silly and doesn't fit the music at all, it really takes points away.  Some artists think its cool to trash their own music to show a lack of pretension, kinda like how Neal Morse will talk long into performing a classic prog song, it just ruins it.  Like the growling really cheapens the otherwise excellent music that Beardfish are capable of playing.  With today's tech, why can't they offer a version without the childish growling in it?

One thing you gotta admit, for one to have seen YES or ELP in their prime, was to see a set of masters give a lesson in perfection.  I dare say TFK nor Spock's Beard or anybody has performed or composed quite at that peak level, thought their stuff is fabulous just the same.

For shows, I wish I could take that YES Cruise of 2014.  People rip YES now, but if you listen to the semi-recent Live in Lyon you will see that Steve & Chris are still performing at master levels.  In a few years when they stop touring it will be perhaps the saddest day in music of the last 100 years and then their live magic will be gone forever.
I never saw Nektar in their prime, but seeing the original lineup reunite in 2002 was still very worthwhile.

Aye dennis superb post - Hemispheres > (x1000) Counterparts and every other effort that comes after also...though I haven't heard a lot of stuff after signals (which is also a sh*te album compared to Moving Pictures).....Not heard any beardfish apart from a couple of mp3 snippets - II wasn't really impressed?

Well Dennis, as myself, you guys are entitled to your OPINIONS   Which are not facts shared by all, in case you didn't realize 

So no, I'm afraid what you describe is exactly a bias and nothing less.  You are biased towards a certain era of music.  I know this, because I share that bias.  IMO, of course   Luckily, my opinion is all that matters

As to Beardfish and growls, you are talking about the last two albums I assume, since there is nothing like that on their first 5 albums.  I don't mind them at all personally, but I am a bit disappointed at the introduction of a more "metal" type approach that they (and a disturbing number of modern prog bands) have decided to take.  So yeah, though the growls don't bother me much, I'd have to agree that they should drop them.

I think the issue with "editing" for modern bands is that they almost exclusively self produce, which I think is a mistake.......even for our beloved Flower Kings. I think it was fine on the early albums by TFK, but I think as time goes on Roine could really use some input from someone outside the band.  Also, the limitations of vinyl demanded that some stuff be left on the cutting room floor, which I think many modern prog bands never do.  Roine, however, has said that there is normally a whole 70 minute album or more of stuff that he leaves off each TFK album because it doesn't fit, isn't quite up to scratch, etc.

As to Yes, I think the "magic" was gone a looooong time ago.  The last live performance I heard from them that I liked was back in 2002, and even that sounded kind of old and tired to me.  The material, of course, is where the magic really is, so I think there is always something worthwhile in their performances in that regard.  I think with the tribute singers though, they have come perilously close to becoming a parody of themselves.  If Howe and Squire weren't such consummate professionals, and great instrumentalists, it would have happened long ago.

As to the Rush comment, I agree that Hemispheres is superior to Counterparts, but I know a lot of die hard Rush fans who don't share that view (though most would agree that Hemispheres is a great album).  Rush themselves don't think so, but that's another story.  Bands frequently seem to look down on their early material............see Rutherford and Banks for confirmation of that........as well as the fact that Greg Lake has always hated the Tarkus suite.  Artists like to keep moving forward......which doesn't mean they can't appreciate their past work, of course.  Peter Gabriel is a good example, as in the interviews on the early Genesis box set, he was the only one who seemed to really still have an appreciation for their old stuff, even though he doesn't seem to have much interest in performing it ever again.


Edited by infandous - August 02 2013 at 11:55

Nov wrote: No, it's $700 all in  Cruises are fantastic value for money in my opinion. A hundred quid a day with all the food and entertainment thrown in - pretty amazing when you think about it.. You'd have to pay a lot more than that for a night at a similar quality hotel and you'd then have to pay for your food on top. You guys have all been pretty negative about this cruise idea but this guy on Prog Ears summed up the economics rather well: "Amazing lineup..probably at least 2 performances from each band. Doing some math, if you can make this work for $1000, and there are 10 bands you want to see, that's $50 a show...and a free cruise."

infandous wrote: Well Dennis, as myself, you guys are entitled to your OPINIONS   Which are not facts shared by all, in case you didn't realize

I am quoting my previous post, since it is really all the answer required to address your response

I should probably mention as well that I've always enjoyed playing devil's advocate.......I like to argue

If I failed to mention that my "theory" had exceptions (there are ALWAYS exceptions), then I apologize.  I thought I did.