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schizoid_man 
Forum Newbie
Joined: January 19 2009
Location: ohio
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Points: 13
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 Posted: April 02 2009 at 14:14 |
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Steven Wilson for me.
Obviously both are influential although Yorke has had more mainstream success. The problem is, Radiohead isn't Yorke's band the way PT is Wilson's. SW also has taken PT into a direction much more ambitious than the last couple Radiohead albums.
To Yorke's credit, I haven't listened to his solo work like I have with Wilson's Insurgents. Also, Yorke is much better with lyrics.
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schizoid_man
Forum Newbie
Joined: January 19 2009
Location: ohio
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Points: 13
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Posted: April 02 2009 at 14:19 |
 belatarr wrote:
Okay okay. First of all Steven Wilson composes most PT stuff by himself as opposed to Thom Yorke. Second of all Thom Yorke doesn't have but one band as opposed to Steven Wilson's five DIVERSE projects. Thom Yorke's solo work sounds well...like Radiohead...Insurgentes is a masterpiece that requires SEVERAL LISTENS to appreciate it, and is diverse and cohesive as few albums out there sounding nothing like his bands. Thom Yorke is an ass, Steven WIlson is humble and accesible. Radiohead is the flag for posers all around the world, they have such a large following because it's cool to listen to them, Procupine Tree is for the select few who dig deep into the the genre's the like.
The only thing that Thom Yorke has over Wilson is the voice other than that the man is just a frontman. And one question to all the "progheads" out there? Why do we say we like prog rock when we are the first ones to despise it's progression?!?! Examples: Marillion's latest albums, Insurgentes by Steven WIlson etc...
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+1 
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Mellotron Storm
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 27 2006
Location: The Beach
Status: Online
Points: 12938
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Posted: April 02 2009 at 14:42 |
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
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Zitro
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 11 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1321
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Posted: April 02 2009 at 15:53 |
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I would agree, but Marillion's last album is boring to my ears. They turned from a dynamic progressive group with fantastic lyrics and theatrical vocals into just kind of hookless music with a singer that doesn't seem to show much emotion (with a couple of exceptions like: "hapiness iiiiiiiiiiiiiiis the road!")
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CryoftheCarrots
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 29 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 674
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Posted: April 02 2009 at 18:48 |
I agree with most of that .And to the poster who followed saying PT are not obscure.Try living in Australia and finding ANYONE that knows them other than people that appreciate progressive rock!
The number of times I wear a PT tshirt to concerts and get asked who are PT is amazing.If I was to wear a Radiohead tshirt I can guarantee that I would get not 1 comment.
To be fair I love Radiohead, just not as much as PT,SW.No-man,Blackfield etc,etc,etc.
As for Thom Yorke I was sold on him the day I heard his versions of the Roxy Music classics on the Velvet Goldmine soundtrack. Truly beautiful. Just wish he was a bit more accessable.ie come to Australia!
Edited by CryoftheCarrots - April 02 2009 at 18:52
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"There is a lot in this world to be tense and intense about"
MJK
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: April 03 2009 at 04:02 |
1800iareyay wrote:
4. People like Radiohead because it's a good band. One of the nice things about the internet that Wilson disparages is that it's drained a great deal of 'hip' factor from music because fads come and go quicker than ever. Radiohead have earned their stripes. And Porcupine Tree are not an obscure band, and you trying to make them into one says more about your desire to seem hip than Radiohead's stack of "posers."
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Agreed, I have seen P Tree's FOABP even in the most unabashedly commercial music stores in my city - and I am from India! - so P Tree is not obscure except maybe if you compare them to Coldplay. Not that any of this has any relation to the topic, anyway. I once heard somebody say that Yorke sounds a lot like Jeff Buckley, and that gentleman being my favourite male voice, is reason enough to vote for Yorke. But I also agree with the person who said Greenwood is integral to Radiohead's music. And yes, OK Computer is better than anything Wilson by miles and miles.
You know, maybe Radiohead should make a few 20 minuters though that's not what I want to hear from them  , it would get them a bit more respect here I wager. 
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Kotro
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 16 2004
Location: Portugal
Status: Offline
Points: 2809
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Posted: April 03 2009 at 05:24 |
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It's always nice too see this kind of topics always come down to the "A is better than B because I say so" argument.
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Bigger on the inside.
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Rocktopus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2006
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 4202
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Posted: April 03 2009 at 08:23 |
belatarr wrote:
And one question to all the "progheads" out there? Why do we say we like prog rock when we are the first ones to despise it's progression?!?! Examples: Marillion's latest albums, Insurgentes by Steven WIlson etc...
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I'm a fan of progressive music, and that's why I don't like any of Marillion's periods. Is that Steven Wilson album (I've not heard it) a true progression? I've seen it compared to Radiohead's The Bends, which is a an undaring, unprogressive, alternative rock album.
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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
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trili
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 08 2007
Location: San Juan, PR
Status: Offline
Points: 180
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Posted: April 03 2009 at 08:50 |
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Last night I downloaded Insurgentes on iTunes (where you can also download trili) and was surprised to hear very good guitar solos. If he played the guitar solos, disregard my previous comment where I said he wasn't a good lead guitar player.
Edited by trili - April 03 2009 at 09:53
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https://oddjohnhawkins.bandcamp.com
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Mellotron Storm
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 27 2006
Location: The Beach
Status: Online
Points: 12938
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Posted: April 03 2009 at 09:12 |
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Steven does play all the guitar parts except for the lead on "Twilight Coda" ,and the guitar drones on a couple of songs. And i would rather have him playing on PT's albums then a virtuoso anyway.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13249
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Posted: April 03 2009 at 09:34 |
I downloaded Insurgentes last night and haven't given it a proper listen so cannot really comment yet.
I love all PT and Radiohead - both are at the forefront of some amazing progressive music challenging the sterotypical boundaries, so this is a very hard choice.
I'm going to vote Wilson because I think, overall, he is the more talented in the round, i.e. songwriter, vocalist, guitarist, producer, washing of the dishes et al. Yorke, as amazing as he is, simply comes nowhere near in terms of that kind of talent and, of course, you could argue that Greenwood is as influential in Radiohead.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
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Nightfly
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: August 01 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3659
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Posted: April 03 2009 at 13:33 |
dave-the-rave wrote:
I vote Wilson.
I lost interest in Radiohead after they went bleepy/bloopy. Imagine all the great rock albums we'll never get from the guys who did OK Computer and The Bends. |
Bleepy/bloopy  Maybe that should be a new cateogory here at PA.
I prefer Wilson while despite Radiohead having some fine moments PT and many of his side projects are more to my taste.
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belatarr
Forum Newbie
Joined: November 11 2007
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 9
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Posted: April 03 2009 at 14:42 |
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Uh...how can you tell between a good solo and a bad solo, other than you like one and you don't like the other one? I mean, to really be able to make a review about something you must have fundaments and well I don't see many here. We prog rock fans have fallen into this abysmal place where we judge and rate things based on what we like and what we don't. Is there such a thing as a bad melody? Or a good one? One thing is having complex music and another is "bad" music. In this poll I guess Radiohead fans defend Thom and PT defend Steven Wilson. They are really not comprable if you think about it. One is million selling band the other is rather popular band in a small circle of fans. IMHO reviews and opinions here are mostly based on opinions and are quite subjective. In my post I tried to state facts. Most reviews here are lkle "This albums is bad, there is no good song bla bla blac" but there is NEVER a reason to support such claims other than personal taste. It kinda saddens me because it all loses credibility.
Oh and I called Thom Yorke an ass because I saw them 2 weeks ago live here in Mexico City and I've never seen an artist care less for his audience (except maybe Bob Dylan). Before he played Creep he said to us "Have a nice life." in such a tone a lot of us got pissed. Many hardcore fans that I talked to hated the show. I saw Gabriel last week and he introduced all of the songs in spanish and with warmth and dedication. And put on a hell of a show.
And at least over here MOST of the people at the Radiohead concert around me didn't even know the songs and the one that got them the most excited was Creep. In my opinion it proves that Radiohead (I'm not saying they are not good) is fab band supported by people who pretend to like it because it's the coolest band out there.
LOL when did I say PT was an obscure band?!?!!?! LOL anyways it all comes down to being objective and smart. I may not like some piece of art BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT CRAP there are many movies and bands that I do not like that I sitll consider them to be art and masterpieces, they just don't apeal to me. It's like all the 1 star reviews albums like Invisible Touch, Abacab, We Can't Dance get in here. IT'S A FREAKING POP ALBUM, judged from progressive standars it OBVIOUSLY rates low, try looking up Selling England by the Pound in something like POP ARCHIVES and see how many stars it gets. LOL Genesis made fantastic pop albums and they managed to include prog songs in them.
Oh and would like to hear all the members of PA that can blow away Steven Wilson's guitar playing please. Give me a link to their bands. If they are better then they must be real hidden prog gems...
Edited by belatarr - April 03 2009 at 14:56
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Ricardo Otero Jr.
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santiagomo87
Forum Groupie
Joined: December 04 2005
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 68
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Posted: April 03 2009 at 15:57 |
Ricardo I was also at both Radiohead and Peter Gabriel concerts and I think they were both great. I agree with you that Yorke didn't manage the connection with the audience I expected, and I also disliked his attitude towards us. Other than that, the music was greatly played and the lights and screens were amazing.
Getting back on topic this was a hard choice for me, I eventually voted for Yorke because of the diversity in all the different songs and albums. I know Wilson is also a very diverse artist but his latest albums (at least with Porcupine Tree) seem to be doing the same again and again. In contrast, Radiohead's In Rainbows explores a lot of new grounds in music that at least I didn't know of. Having seen them both playing live I dare say I enjoyed more Steven Wilson's style anyways.
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Santiago
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trili
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 08 2007
Location: San Juan, PR
Status: Offline
Points: 180
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Posted: April 03 2009 at 16:05 |
belatarr wrote:
Uh...how can you tell between a good solo and a bad solo, other than you like one and you don't like the other one? I mean, to really be able to make a review about something you must have fundaments and well I don't see many here. We prog rock fans have fallen into this abysmal place where we judge and rate things based on what we like and what we don't. Is there such a thing as a bad melody? Or a good one? One thing is having complex music and another is "bad" music. In this poll I guess Radiohead fans defend Thom and PT defend Steven Wilson. They are really not comprable if you think about it. One is million selling band the other is rather popular band in a small circle of fans. IMHO reviews and opinions here are mostly based on opinions and are quite subjective. In my post I tried to state facts. Most reviews here are lkle "This albums is bad, there is no good song bla bla blac" but there is NEVER a reason to support such claims other than personal taste. It kinda saddens me because it all loses credibility.
Oh and I called Thom Yorke an ass because I saw them 2 weeks ago live here in Mexico City and I've never seen an artist care less for his audience (except maybe Bob Dylan). Before he played Creep he said to us "Have a nice life." in such a tone a lot of us got pissed. Many hardcore fans that I talked to hated the show. I saw Gabriel last week and he introduced all of the songs in spanish and with warmth and dedication. And put on a hell of a show.
And at least over here MOST of the people at the Radiohead concert around me didn't even know the songs and the one that got them the most excited was Creep. In my opinion it proves that Radiohead (I'm not saying they are not good) is fab band supported by people who pretend to like it because it's the coolest band out there.
LOL when did I say PT was an obscure band?!?!!?! LOL anyways it all comes down to being objective and smart. I may not like some piece of art BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT CRAP there are many movies and bands that I do not like that I sitll consider them to be art and masterpieces, they just don't apeal to me. It's like all the 1 star reviews albums like Invisible Touch, Abacab, We Can't Dance get in here. IT'S A FREAKING POP ALBUM, judged from progressive standars it OBVIOUSLY rates low, try looking up Selling England by the Pound in something like POP ARCHIVES and see how many stars it gets. LOL Genesis made fantastic pop albums and they managed to include prog songs in them.
Oh and would like to hear all the members of PA that can blow away Steven Wilson's guitar playing please. Give me a link to their bands. If they are better then they must be real hidden prog gems...
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You're totally right about the solo part. For a solo to be good for someone it only needs to "move" that person. Until a couple of solos I heard in Insurgentes I was never "moved" by Wilson's solos. I think to me they sounded cold. Technically probably the "problem" is his phrasing & vibrato.
As for Yorke not being nice and whatever, I don't know what to tell you. I don't know what his motives for making music are. Some people just want to play music and not be clowns and asskissers. If the music "moved" you that's all that should matter. But that's just me...
Edited by trili - April 03 2009 at 16:12
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https://oddjohnhawkins.bandcamp.com
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King Crimson776
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 12 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2762
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Posted: April 03 2009 at 16:24 |
Moatilliatta wrote:
King Crimson776 wrote:
Swan Song wrote:
I think Yorke is a "voice" of our era, which is more important to me than Wilson being an excellent musician and producer. |
Really?
Anyway, Wilson is a million times more musical than Yorke could ever be... and those saying PT is just a mix of other bands sounds... so is Radiohead, mostly... neither is completely unique but whenever I hear one of each bands songs I immediately know it's them, they both have their own unique sounds. But as far as musicality Wilson is far superior and he keeps getting better... Yorke and Co. just keep spiraling off into nothingness making slight variations on the same record over and over again. |
Really? |
Yeah, really. Even try to argue that Radiohead's latest efforts have been anything more than mixes of their old guitar rock sound and their newer "bleeps and bloops" sound... really. I'm not going argue that PT is changing all that much either but don't claim Radiohead is... I wouldn't have a problem with this if people didn't claim Radiohead was doing anything new... because they aren't. As I said I like PT better because I think they're getting better... not because of some claim that they are "more progressive". If you genuinely think Radiohead is getting better then that's fine... I can't even imagine thinking going from Ok Computer to In Rainbows constitutes getting better, but if you do then cool.
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siko237
Forum Newbie
Joined: June 10 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 14
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Posted: April 03 2009 at 16:56 |
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My god this is a good argument!!
Well, i definitely voted for Steven Wilson...but here are some comments i have:
1. Listen to Thom Yorke's 'Eraser' and Radiohead's 'Kid A'...there isn't much difference between the two...Eraser could've been released under Radiohead and no one would've been surprised..
2. IMO Jonny Greenwood is what gives Radiohead their edge, if it hadn't been for his input Radiohead would've sounded like any other altervative rock band..(who all sound like bad versions of Sonic Youth')
3. Steven Wilson's ability to mix an extremely large number of genres into each project is just amazing!!! The introduction of Noise music to insurgentes gave me goosebumps, as well as the increasing Post Rock influences seen in PT and No-man,
4. As for his guitar playing, SW never in any interview said he's a good guitar player, he even says he has troubles playing 'Normal' which is an extremely easy song, but his lines always serve the song, they add another dimension to the music, and never fails imo..
5. SW is a far better vocalist than Thom Yorke, i think since Kid A (their bleepy bloopy era..heh) his voice has just become plain annoying...and his falcetto is horrible when compared to those who do it right (Sigur Ros' Jonsi is a perfect example)...
6. SW is god...
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i'm a shade and easy to ignore...
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dedokras
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 04 2006
Location: Bulgaria
Status: Offline
Points: 635
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Posted: April 03 2009 at 18:04 |
well, Yorke is much better than SW because I say so :) just kidding, but I think if you asked SW he would tell you the same ;)
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1800iareyay
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2492
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Posted: April 03 2009 at 18:19 |
belatarr wrote:
Uh...how can you tell between a good solo and a bad solo, other than you like one and you don't like the other one? I mean, to really be able to make a review about something you must have fundaments and well I don't see many here. |
I think you meant to say fundamentals, because fundaments denote the
buttocks or anus. Which is actually quite apt given your posting.
We prog rock fans have fallen into this abysmal place where we judge and rate things based on what we like and what we don't....
IMHO reviews and opinions here are mostly based on opinions and are quite subjective |
EXTRA! EXTRA! READ ALL ABOUT IT! GENIUS LINKS OPINIONS TO OPINIONS! REVIEWS BASED ON PERSONAL TASTE! EXTRA! EXTRA!
| Oh and I called Thom Yorke an ass because I saw them 2 weeks ago live here in Mexico City and I've never seen an artist care less for his audience (except maybe Bob Dylan). Before he played Creep he said to us "Have a nice life." in such a tone a lot of us got pissed. Many hardcore fans that I talked to hated the show. I saw Gabriel last week and he introduced all of the songs in spanish and with warmth and dedication. And put on a hell of a show. |
Oh poor you. You went to see a band that makes moody music and you were offended that the band was moody. It's a song they hate to play, that they've spent their careers rebelling against, but they play it anyway because fans like it.
| And at least over here MOST of the people at the Radiohead concert around me didn't even know the songs and the one that got them the most excited was Creep. In my opinion it proves that Radiohead (I'm not saying they are not good) is fab band supported by people who pretend to like it because it's the coolest band out there. |
They've been million sellers for a decade and a half. The only way that constitutes a "fad" is if you're comparing it to European history.
Oh and would like to hear all the members of PA that can blow away Steven Wilson's guitar playing please. Give me a link to their bands. If they are better then they must be real hidden prog gems...
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"I don't have to lay an egg to know that it tastes good." - Pauline Kael
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Leningrad
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 15 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 7991
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Posted: April 03 2009 at 18:42 |
From now on, we will not review based on our own opinions of the album; we will judge it by set traits that we, as a unanimous collective, decide to be worthy of judging music by.
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Steven Wilson vs. Thom Yorke
