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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2009 at 13:59
Originally posted by thornw thornw wrote:

Well, I guess I could have just checked for myself.  Apparently they each say they're from different countries, so maybe they are real.  I honestly don't know.  But it sure is suspicious, that's all I'm saying.
I agree - I raised this point in the Xover team thread myself. However, all early reviews and ratings do come from people who like the album, regardless of who the band is - over time the ratings will drop. We have seen this before with bands like Satellite and Phideaux.
Originally posted by thornw thornw wrote:

 
70 percent of the reviews are from people who have only reviewed 1-4 albums.  Compare that to any other album!
I have neither the time nor the energy to trawl through all albums looking for similar or disimilar cases. However, ones that do immediately come to mind are Pendragon's Pure and Satellite's Into The Night.
Originally posted by thornw thornw wrote:

  No, I can't PROVE the ratings aren't real, but neither can anyone else really prove they are.  Let's face it, stuff like this has happened on Progarchives before, and I wouldn't be surprised if labels and fanboys have found a way to circumvent whatever policing there may be.
The label is question is Happy Thoughts Productions, which is of course Gazpacho's own label - if you suspect the label then you suspect the band. Since any anomalous spikes like this will be investigated then I would have though the risks outweigh the benefits, especially when one of those risks is to prompt a backlash of 1-star retaliations.
 
Fanboys are another issue but easily spotted, fanboys who employ anonymous proxies are slightly harder but not impossible to spot.
Originally posted by thornw thornw wrote:

 In the end, it's up to regular old users to not get swept up in hype.  But it really seems like many users on Progarchives are easily duped....
Really? How do you know this?
 
What?
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Points: 67 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2009 at 14:04
I have submitted my album report to Dean Smile
 
Thanks Diaby Smile
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Points: 10 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2009 at 14:23
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by thornw thornw wrote:

 
In the end, it's up to regular old users to not get swept up in hype.  But it really seems like many users on Progarchives are easily duped....
Really? How do you know this?
 
 
I don't know, but it seems like all it takes is a few 5-star reviews, whether they're from dubious sources or not, to convince everyone that a band has universal appeal and is something everyone needs to check out.
 
Funny you mention Satellite and Phideaux- those are two other times I got suspicious too, plus Nexus-Perpetuum Karma....
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Points: 22 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2009 at 14:28
Originally posted by stewe stewe wrote:

This thread turned to be interesting:) I have thought it could be an easy promotion among proggers, by achieving such respectable position here. Because there are lot such reviews from unknown one-shot writers. It would be interesting to find out the proxy IP adresses of these obscure reviewers, it will prove or disprove it. 
 
Hi, I wrote a review about Gazpachoīs Tick, Tock, my first review in Progarchives but not the last one, I am sure.
 
If I havenīt written anymore reviews before is because English is not my native language - I am Spanish  - and my command of the English language is not good, I am still learning, but I thought I had some things to say about this Gazpachoīs work  - call it ' my humble opinion ' if you want - and...... well, some review has to be the first one !. This Gazpacho review was just my first attempt, being very daring and hoping you all forgive the possible mistakes .
 
I wish I was able of writing in English the fantastic reviews I have read in Progarchives about some of my fav bands, such as Genesis, Peter Gabriel, Radiohead, Porcupine Tree, Riverside etc.....but I am afraid it will take me some time get to that level  !.
 
Cheers,
 
Paloma.


Edited by Bodysnatcher - April 21 2009 at 16:25
Just cos you feel it, it doesnīt means itīs there....
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Points: 593 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2009 at 14:56
Originally posted by Bodysnatcher Bodysnatcher wrote:

Originally posted by stewe stewe wrote:

This thread turned to be interesting:) I have thought it could be an easy promotion among proggers, by achieving such respectable position here. Because there are lot such reviews from unknown one-shot writers. It would be interesting to find out the proxy IP adresses of these obscure reviewers, it will prove or disprove it. 
 
Hi, I wrote a review about Gazpachoīs Tick, Tock, my first review in Progarchives but not the last one, I am sure.
 
If I havenīt written anymore reviews before is because English is not my native language - I am Spanish  - and my command of the English language is not good, I am still learning, but I thought I had some things to say about this Gazpachoīs work and - call it ' my humble opinion ' if you want -...... well, some review has to be the first one !. This Gazpacho review was just my first attempt, being very daring and hoping you all forgive the possible mistakes .
 
I wish I was able of writing in English the fantastic reviews I have read in Progarchives about some of my fav bands, such as Genesis, Peter Gabriel, Radiohead, Porcupine Tree, Riverside etc.....but it will take me some time get to that level !.
 
Cheers,
 
Paloma.


I understand, but there are many these first reviews... it can be coincidence, but it's at least suspicious. Album which was released few days ago holds status of indisputable prog masterpiece of all times.  5-star ratings for such timeless (and difficult if we speak about prog)  music usually need some time interval for making opinion and appreciation. 


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Points: 22 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2009 at 15:10
Originally posted by stewe stewe wrote:



I understand, but there are many these first reviews... it can be coincidence, but it's at least suspicious. Album which was released few days ago holds status of indisputable prog masterpiece of all times.  5-star ratings for such timeless (and difficult if we speak about prog)  music usually need some time interval for making opinion and appreciation. 
 
Yes, and I fully understand what you mean. Smile
 
I donīt know if it just a coincidence or not. Maybe it is.
 
I was just expecting the album to be released, cos I was impressed by Night - as I say in my review - and once I listened to Tick Tock I simply loved it, to the point I play it several times a day and I am thinking I am going to stop playing it for some time cos I donīt want it to be overplayed so soon !!. ShockedLOL
 


Edited by Bodysnatcher - April 21 2009 at 17:03
Just cos you feel it, it doesnīt means itīs there....
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Points: 593 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2009 at 15:29
Originally posted by Bodysnatcher Bodysnatcher wrote:

 
I was just expecting the album to be released, cos I was impressed by Night - as I say in my review - and once I listened to Tick Tock I simply loved it, to the point I play it several times a day and I thinking I am going to stop playing it for some time cos I donīt want it to be overplayed so soon !!. ShockedLOL
 


If it is really a masterpiece, it shouldn't overplay so soon. Wink


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Points: 22 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2009 at 15:41
Originally posted by stewe stewe wrote:

Originally posted by Bodysnatcher Bodysnatcher wrote:

 
I was just expecting the album to be released, cos I was impressed by Night - as I say in my review - and once I listened to Tick Tock I simply loved it, to the point I play it several times a day and I thinking I am going to stop playing it for some time cos I donīt want it to be overplayed so soon !!. ShockedLOL
 


If it is really a masterpiece, it shouldn't overplay so soon. Wink
 
Well, I can assure I have overplayed masterpieces such as Selling England  or Aqualung.....for example ! LOLLOL
 
Btw, I am not new in the forum either, but it is a long time I hadnīt posted here and for some reason, I am not able of log in with my old username. Smile
 
Paloma.
 


Edited by Bodysnatcher - April 21 2009 at 15:44
Just cos you feel it, it doesnīt means itīs there....
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Points: 5195 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2009 at 15:44
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

@Dean:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_(anonymity_network)

Good news is: most Tor proxies can be identified by IP address. Maybe you can pass this along to M@x ... anonymous access to PA should be possible, but IMO not for submitting ratings!
Will do - thanks Mike.
 
 
 
...of course any proxy can be tricked into reveailing it's true IP, no one can be 100% anonymous since the end-points are fixed.


of course. But one can use tor from a stationary computer and it will appear like every request (click) is coming from a completely different IP (proxy end point).
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Points: 774 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2009 at 00:01
Originally posted by demolition man demolition man wrote:

I have submitted my album report to Dean Smile
 
Thanks Diaby Smile
 
You're welcome!
yeah
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Points: 958 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2009 at 01:04
Originally posted by stewe stewe wrote:

I don't quite get the point about this band and their Tick Tock... is something wrong with algorithm on PA?:) How can be their new album in such few days among the twenty best all time prog albums...?

Do you think it deserves such adoration?

I listened to it few times, and disappointed me. Sounds to me like one mid tempo track, full of whimping, that make one fall asleep. X derivation of Marillion (with Hoghart), but flat, without intensity.

Don't count that, but also seeing them live, was also strange experience. Unlike most neo prog band (quite modest and friendly) this band seemed like they percieve themselves as stars, especially singer looked like self-important.


 
I haven't heard this one yet but I know Night (their previous) and your statements above go for this album as well. It was exactly what I thought while listening to "Night". The music is somewhat underwhelming but still is full of quality. The violin solo on Night's closing track is absolutely beautiful and I guess it could be a reason for the high scores of that album. I'm in doubt if I will have a go at Tick Tock, at least it's arousing one's curiosity those high scores. Looking at the comments it could be a sort of album like Phideaux' Doomsday Afternoon. High quality but because of the high expectations bound to disappoint.
I think I'll go for it one day. 
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Points: 16449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2009 at 06:42
Originally posted by thornw thornw wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by thornw thornw wrote:

 
In the end, it's up to regular old users to not get swept up in hype.  But it really seems like many users on Progarchives are easily duped....
Really? How do you know this?
 
 
I don't know, but it seems like all it takes is a few 5-star reviews, whether they're from dubious sources or not, to convince everyone that a band has universal appeal and is something everyone needs to check out.
 
Funny you mention Satellite and Phideaux- those are two other times I got suspicious too, plus Nexus-Perpetuum Karma....

If an album starts getting a number of 5 star reviews then its bound to raise interest in the rest of us. When an album is released it is always going to be the fans of that band that buy it first (lets not count the really big bands, you get people buying the new album to check them out and see what all the fuss is about) and so review it first. The high ratings will mean the album will reach a wider audiance some of those are bound to dislike it so the ratings sort themselves out, just give it time.
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Points: 2779 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2009 at 07:25
Originally posted by thornw thornw wrote:

Originally posted by sigod sigod wrote:

I very much like the music these guys play but what I like more is that love them or hate them, this is the kind of thread that every band wishes for. You just can't pay for this kind of promotion/advertising. Big smile
 
Actually, I think you can.


Cool - show me.
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Points: 22 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2009 at 07:58
And reflecting again about why all these ratings ( high ratings in this case ) and reviews.....well, I think it is logical to write about a new album which has just been released better than an ( old or not ) album  that you can find already reviewed and rated .Ermm
 
Just my opinion. Smile


Edited by Bodysnatcher - April 22 2009 at 12:58
Just cos you feel it, it doesnīt means itīs there....
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Points: 10 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2009 at 12:10
Originally posted by sleeper sleeper wrote:


If an album starts getting a number of 5 star reviews then its bound to raise interest in the rest of us. When an album is released it is always going to be the fans of that band that buy it first (lets not count the really big bands, you get people buying the new album to check them out and see what all the fuss is about) and so review it first. The high ratings will mean the album will reach a wider audiance some of those are bound to dislike it so the ratings sort themselves out, just give it time.
 
This makes sense, but sometimes I think people see an album with like a 4.5 rating, and they give it a 4 or 5 just to go along with the crowd.
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Points: 10 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2009 at 12:18
Originally posted by sigod sigod wrote:

Originally posted by thornw thornw wrote:

Originally posted by sigod sigod wrote:

I very much like the music these guys play but what I like more is that love them or hate them, this is the kind of thread that every band wishes for. You just can't pay for this kind of promotion/advertising. Big smile
 
Actually, I think you can.


Cool - show me.
 
Well, I know there are agencies that you can pay to generate plays on myspace and there are reviewers on Amazon you can pay to get positive reviews from.  I wouldn't be surprised if there is a place you can pay to generate positive discussion on a band for sites like progarchives.  Again, I can't *prove* it, but neither can you *disprove* it.  Talk to someone who works in Internet advertising- you'd be amazed how deceitful a lot of it is.
 
There are freelance advertisers who specialize in ground-up advertising and have hundreds of user accounts for hundreds of message boards... I admit the evidence for something like that happening with this Gazpacho album is weaker than I thought it was at first.  But this kind of thing does happen... don't believe every review you read....
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Points: 2779 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2009 at 12:59
Originally posted by thornw thornw wrote:

Originally posted by sigod sigod wrote:

Originally posted by thornw thornw wrote:

Originally posted by sigod sigod wrote:

I very much like the music these guys play but what I like more is that love them or hate them, this is the kind of thread that every band wishes for. You just can't pay for this kind of promotion/advertising. Big smile
 
Actually, I think you can.


Cool - show me.
 
 Again, I can't *prove* it, but neither can you *disprove* it.  Talk to someone who works in Internet advertising- you'd be amazed how deceitful a lot of it is.
That is an interesting argument you raise. If you can't prove it and also believe that I can't disprove it, then you haven' really refuted my claim, merely added an opinion to the contrary. That said, by replying to my post, you bumped the Gazpacho thread to the top of the page and therefore generated an additional view to the thread, thus giving the band a small (but still free) boost to their profile.

I have no problem with that btw as I think the band are very good indeed. My best advice to you would be to disagree with this post as it will sustain the thread even further. Big smile
 
There are freelance advertisers who specialize in ground-up advertising and have hundreds of user accounts for hundreds of message boards... I admit the evidence for something like that happening with this Gazpacho album is weaker than I thought it was at first.  But this kind of thing does happen... don't believe every review you read....
Hmmm yes a good thought. I believe the advertising term for the practice you mention is called 'Astroturfing' and occurs exactly as you have described above. Those devilish fiends are probably wishing they were right here now...

...uness they are and you and I are the same person... 


Edited by sigod - April 22 2009 at 13:00
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Points: 67 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2009 at 16:28
Still loving the new album.
Great driving music !
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Points: 40 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2009 at 09:58
I think there's a bit of new artist bias going on here. Isn't it possible that Tick Tock may be in the Top Albums list entirely on merit?

I've listened to prog for a long time, and it's been a while since I've been this excited by a new act. Night was one of the freshest sounding albums of this decade, and to surpass it with their latest effort is truly astounding.

I honestly think they're one of the bands who will inspire a legion of followers as their sound is unique, a rarity I'm sure you'll agree. As such they deserve the plaudits they are receiving.
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Points: 1 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2009 at 10:43
Hi
 
I had been using PA as a resource for some time, and it was the release of 'Tick Tock' that inspired me to write my first review. I did not expect it to be greeted with such cynicism!!!
 
I submitted an honest review after listening to the album a number of times. I have since see them perform it live. And I ansolutely stand by my 5-star review.
 
To me this is a masterpiece as it ticks all the right boxes in terms of what I look for in progressive music.
 
I have since added more ratings for other bands and hope to add further reviews in due course, including some of the 'classics'.
 
Kind regards
 
Scudge1970
 
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