News of the day |
Post Reply | Page <1 394395396397398 446> |
Author | |||
The Doctor
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 23 2005 Location: The Tardis Status: Offline Points: 8543 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Usually the investigation goes first, then if there is enough evidence to pursue charges an arrest is made. Once you arrest someone, the Constitutional rights of the accused kick in (including the right to have their situation adjudicated swiftly). That's why unless the suspect poses a clear and present danger to society or unless the suspect was caught in the act committing a wrong (shooting someone by itself without more - especially in the case of the police - is not automatically considered a wrong). There are many circumstances under which the police may have no choice but to shoot someone (or very limited choices). To arrest them and then decide if there is any evidence they did something wrong, sort of violates the innocent until proven guilty thingy. |
|||
I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
|
|||
rushfan4
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 65937 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
If Joe Public is arrested for murdering somebody he probably would be booked and thrown in prison and the rest of this process would be completed with him sitting in prison (or with a bond). |
|||
|
|||
rushfan4
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 65937 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Also, I am sure that he has been advised by his attorney and/or union rep to not say anything publicly.
|
|||
|
|||
akamaisondufromage
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: May 16 2009 Location: Blighty Status: Offline Points: 6797 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Arresting someone doesn't presume any guilt on anyone's part. And shooting someone 'in the line of duty' may not be automatically considered wrong but the guy wasn't armed (no matter how big he was) and he was shot 6 times! So I would think this would be enough to justify arrest. |
|||
Help me I'm falling!
|
|||
The Doctor
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 23 2005 Location: The Tardis Status: Offline Points: 8543 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
I don't know. Someone that big charging at me, if I had the opportunity, I'd unload my gun into him. Whether he had a gun or not is irrelevant to self-defense. Number 1, that guy was big enough he could snap my neck easily. But risk of death is not required for self-defense. Only risk of serious bodily injury. If that guy was charging the officer, he posed a risk of at least serious bodily injury to the officer, which brought about the officer's right of self-defense. Here in the states, the method of defense used does not have to exactly be equal to the method the attacker is using. In fact, using your own body against the body of an attacker may be futile if the attacker is bigger than you are. Using a gun to defend yourself against a large attacker or someone armed with a knife is acceptable.
As for the six times, yes, that was overkill. But he probably panicked. In spite of the uniform, dude is still human and can suffer from fear and the overreaction that can cause. Does that mean he should go to prison? I don't think so. Edited by The Doctor - August 19 2014 at 16:40 |
|||
I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
|
|||
akamaisondufromage
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: May 16 2009 Location: Blighty Status: Offline Points: 6797 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
It would seem that in The States the only method of self defense is the gun. So no matter how big the threat the only port of call is to shoot. Not only that but the police don't appear to have to answer for their actions. |
|||
Help me I'm falling!
|
|||
The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 12683 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Meanwhile, in Flint, Michigan, a city about an hour north of me, five black men were shot in separate instances over night. They were all shot by other black men.
No one was there to mourn. No one is there to protest. This type of thing happens every night in Flint and Detroit and Chicago and St. Louis. And you wonder why cops may have to shoot someone? To paraphrase Michael Palin, "Come and see the violence inherent in the system and the culture". |
|||
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
|||
The Doctor
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 23 2005 Location: The Tardis Status: Offline Points: 8543 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
In a case like this, he would have to answer for his actions if he in fact did anything wrong. I personally don't think he should have to rot in jail while that determination is being made. If every time a police officer were put in jail during an investigation into whether or not the shooting was justified, you'd have an awful hard time attracting people into that field. "Gee if I exercise my right to self-defense, I'll end up in prison with people I've put away while they determine that I acted in self-defense. No thanks."
Now, if it is determined that he acted with malice or with wantonness in shooting this guy, and he is not punished, I'll be out there protesting too. Edited by The Doctor - August 19 2014 at 16:53 |
|||
I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
|
|||
akamaisondufromage
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: May 16 2009 Location: Blighty Status: Offline Points: 6797 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
No that doesn't mean he should go to prison. However, it does mean there should be a thorough and open equiry. This may be the case that he was attacked and fired and panicked but you can't expect people to just accept that as the truth. |
|||
Help me I'm falling!
|
|||
akamaisondufromage
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: May 16 2009 Location: Blighty Status: Offline Points: 6797 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Arresting someone doesn't mean you have to throuw them into prison. They would probably go out on bail. |
|||
Help me I'm falling!
|
|||
The Doctor
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 23 2005 Location: The Tardis Status: Offline Points: 8543 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Oh, I agree with that wholeheartedly, aka. There should most definitely be an open and thorough investigation. And if there isn't, people have the right to be completely po'ed. But the investigation is ongoing. We simply don't have all the facts yet and I think it premature to judge and convict him before all the facts are had.
|
|||
I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
|
|||
The Doctor
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 23 2005 Location: The Tardis Status: Offline Points: 8543 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
p...ed off.
As Rushfan indicated, as an officer in the line of duty, there is a presumption that the incident was justified. That presumption is not conclusive and will be modified after a thorough investigation, but it does mean that the officer is given the benefit of the doubt unless and until evidence shows there may have been wrongdoing. And I think this is the correct way to go about it. |
|||
I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
|
|||
The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
|
|||
|
|||
rushfan4
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 65937 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
An unarmed 20-year old white man gets shot and killed by black police officer in Utah....and there are no riots and also no national news attention. http://www.inquisitr.com/1430653/dillon-taylor-shooting-proof-ferguson-protesters-are-having-the-wrong-conversation/
|
|||
|
|||
The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Of course, the real conversation is that this is a police state (as in ruled-by-the-police) and that a large percentage of cops are psychopaths and power abusers, and that we are arming them like an army.
Racism is real and I wouldn't play down its role in the Ferguson case, but this is for me the biggest problem in all these cases.
|
|||
|
|||
The Doctor
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 23 2005 Location: The Tardis Status: Offline Points: 8543 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Racism is real and there is certainly some institutional racism out there as well. And it MAY have played a role in the Ferguson case and if it did, that should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. However, not every negative interaction between white and black is a result of racism and it should not just be assumed before all the facts are gathered and examined. In fact, to assume that every white person who has a negative interaction with a black person is automatically racially motivated is racist in itself.
This was a law enforcement officer having an interaction with what appears to be a law breaker. That doesn't negate the fact that the shooting may have been racially motivated, but there has to be an investigation before we string the guy up, draw and quarter him and feed his remains to the dogs. |
|||
I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
|
|||
Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15783 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Really? This author tries to demonize Michael Brown by drawing doubt to information completely immaterial to his shooting (full toxicology report), puts in writing his support for the unnecessary police militarization which has turned Ferguson into a war zone complete with the human rights violations, and uses another example of gross police misconduct (assuming it's true. I'll admit I didn't do any research into Taylor's shooting) to reduce the severity of what has occurred in Ferguson into a "black people are overreacting and everyone is too PC to call them out on it except for me!!!". Okay. |
|||
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
|
|||
rushfan4
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 65937 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
|
|||
|
|||
Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15783 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Cops unjustifiably shoot people everyday. One of these cases turning into a media sensation is the exception not the norm. There's no reason to expect it to be a national story.
|
|||
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
|
|||
The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
No reason, yes. But the more of these cases that are exposed, the better. The psychopaths in the police force (nowadays a large percentage of it) need to be exposed and society made aware of what kind of low-level power abusers we are arming like Call of Duty soldiers.
|
|||
|
|||
Post Reply | Page <1 394395396397398 446> |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |