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iscariot View Drop Down
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Points: 19 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2005 at 18:09
Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

Iscariot, if you put Deliverance and Damnation together, they make one variant and amazing double album. When I listen to Deliverance or Damnation, I must listen to the other one right afterwards.


right, that was the intention as i understand it. although i often find myself more drawn to damnation and usually my momentary interests are secularized either to heavy or soft music, so i dont think ive actually ever really sat down with both, one after another.

i have found however that damnation (in particular tracks like 'to rid the disease') fit quite nicely into a playlist with sigur ros and other melancholy music. a beer or two doesnt hurt milk the emotion either.
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Points: 91 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2005 at 18:18
Originally posted by iscariot iscariot wrote:

Originally posted by Abbath Abbath wrote:


BwP and Damnation are in their top 3 worst albums.


i almost fell out of my chair when i saw this. these are likely among some of my favorite albums of all time, for precisely the reasons given by the people who also favor opeths music. blackwater parks dynamic is incredible, and i think that the clear delineation between quiet and heavy, which is the very crux of their music is very well expressed here. the riffs are catchy, the melodies are captivating... etc. damnation may only dabble in the latter of these two, but it remains so... distant or foreign in some way as a result. the folkish nature of their quiet music is, from my view, intentionally otherworldly and old, and this kind of aesthetic is precisely why im drawn to this part of their music.


You may not believe it, but I can tell you that with the straightest face possible. When you listen to a fair amount of metal, those 3 albums are pretty formulaic. Their older material is so much more original.

Differant strokes.
 
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Points: 421 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2005 at 18:18
Somewhat off-topic alert! OH NOZ

Harvest has something captivating in it. I disliked the how the lyrics "stay with me a while" were sung, but the first (pardon my lack of musical theory) 30 seconds contain some of the most beautiful  guitar work (especially from Lindgren).
You can't possibly hear the last movement of Beethoven's Seventh and go slow. ~Oscar Levant, explaining his way out of a speeding ticket
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iscariot View Drop Down
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Points: 19 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2005 at 18:30
Originally posted by Abbath Abbath wrote:

Originally posted by iscariot iscariot wrote:

Originally posted by Abbath Abbath wrote:


BwP and Damnation are in their top 3 worst albums.


i almost fell out of my chair when i saw this. these are likely among some of my favorite albums of all time, for precisely the reasons given by the people who also favor opeths music. blackwater parks dynamic is incredible, and i think that the clear delineation between quiet and heavy, which is the very crux of their music is very well expressed here. the riffs are catchy, the melodies are captivating... etc. damnation may only dabble in the latter of these two, but it remains so... distant or foreign in some way as a result. the folkish nature of their quiet music is, from my view, intentionally otherworldly and old, and this kind of aesthetic is precisely why im drawn to this part of their music.


You may not believe it, but I can tell you that with the straightest face possible. When you listen to a fair amount of metal, those 3 albums are pretty formulaic. Their older material is so much more original.

Differant strokes.
 


im by no means an expert in any genre, but i wouldnt call it formulaic. i would agree with you if you mean to say that riffs are often repeated, seemingly, more than is necessary, i often end up finding this repetition engrossing and totally acceptable given the natural groove of the music. there is after all so much more at stake in music than just melody, difficulty, rhythm... etc. the combination of all of these things makes it not formulaic, but controlled.

if you mean to say that the music is somehow rehashed from their other work, or other artists, id beg to differ, but im afraid that without example on that matter id have to call a stalemate at opinion; as you say, different strokes.
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Points: 369 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2005 at 23:28
Ironically, my two favorite albums are just about as opposite in production and style as you can get: MAYH and Damnation.

I actually think MAYH had some of his best lyrics, perhaps because he wrote them in sentence form in Swedish, then translated. Dunno, but that may be why. And the whole concept is just a powerful idea.

As for Orchid...I try not to rag on people's English skills, but that WAS a problem. Especially on "Apostle in Triumph". The end of that song...OUCH OUCH OUCH!   
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Points: 91 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2005 at 01:48
Originally posted by FloydWright FloydWright wrote:

Ironically, my two favorite albums are just about as opposite in production and style as you can get: MAYH and Damnation.

I actually think MAYH had some of his best lyrics, perhaps because he wrote them in sentence form in Swedish, then translated. Dunno, but that may be why. And the whole concept is just a powerful idea.

As for Orchid...I try not to rag on people's English skills, but that WAS a problem. Especially on "Apostle in Triumph". The end of that song...OUCH OUCH OUCH!   


Let's understand that Orchid was Opeth trying to differentiate themselves from the scene and in so they were understandably all over the place. But it's really then that I find they were at their most pure form. Just a bunch of guys that were in as much awe of what they were doing as the listener is, be it in a good way or a bad way. It's really the band at their most adventurous.
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Points: 387 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2005 at 05:14
Originally posted by lalala lalala wrote:

theres nothing wrong with that but its just cornball to make an album about that, esp. a rock album. i dont want to hear akerfeldt encouraging his faith anymore than i expect people to get on a soapbox either. i respect that he believes in god and has good morals but he shouldnt preach. "this is forgiveness, so I know once I repent I seal the lid." *gag*


plus, like i said, mikael just cant write lyrics. and that album is bad at it too... face of melinda in particular.


and i still stand by my statement that i think even those who can tolerate death vocals cant by any means actually ENJOY them. listen to serenity painted death, that chorus... white face, haggard grin or whateva it says... yeesh.



Hmm.. I haven't really interpreted the lyrics myself, but judging from lyrics from Åkerfeldts previous band, Bloodbath, I doubt he's very religious. (They have a song named Bastard son of God, for example)
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Points: 3 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2005 at 10:28

I like Opeth's lyrics. As for the growling, you get used to it after a while.

My Arms, Your Hearse, Still Life, and Damnation are my favorites.
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Points: 369 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2005 at 11:47
Originally posted by Abbath Abbath wrote:

Let's understand that Orchid was Opeth trying to differentiate
themselves from the scene and in so they were understandably all over
the place. But it's really then that I find they were at their most
pure form. Just a bunch of guys that were in as much awe of what they
were doing as the listener is, be it in a good way or a bad way. It's
really the band at their most adventurous.


It's not that the album hasn't got its good points...it really does. But I do tend to be a stickler for flow and sound quality, so I can't give the same ratings that I do to some of their later works.
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Points: 91 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2005 at 12:26
Originally posted by FloydWright FloydWright wrote:

Originally posted by Abbath Abbath wrote:

Let's understand that Orchid was Opeth trying to differentiate
themselves from the scene and in so they were understandably all over
the place. But it's really then that I find they were at their most
pure form. Just a bunch of guys that were in as much awe of what they
were doing as the listener is, be it in a good way or a bad way. It's
really the band at their most adventurous.


It's not that the album hasn't got its good points...it really does. But I do tend to be a stickler for flow and sound quality, so I can't give the same ratings that I do to some of their later works.


I suppose that in the end, which Opeth era is prefered depends entirely on the listener.
 
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Points: 430 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2005 at 00:59
Originally posted by Geee Geee wrote:

Hi Guys and Girls

I seem to have a problem with Opeth.  The first album that I ever heard of theirs was Damnation - Simply awesome prog album.  I didn't know who they were before this album.  Since I liked this album I made it a point that I get hold of the whole discography.  What a shock!  Almost all of their albums are Death Metal.  My dilemma is how can a band that releases such marvelous album like Damnation, release Death Metal Music?

Cheers

PS Having said that I still have to say that even their Death Metal releases, musically are very technical, and I don't know how this will sound, and 'progressive'. But the vocals!

It will take some time to get used to, but afterwards you'll appreciate the harsher vocals.
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Points: 39 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2005 at 01:03
Actually,

Opeth were a "death metal" band long before they released Damnation. Damnation was almost a "break" for fans that weren't into the growls, IMO.

I have a special place in my ear for Damnation, but musically Deliverance impressed me far more.

I'd say Blackwater Park beats them both down though.
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Points: 61 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2005 at 05:31
Originally posted by Geee Geee wrote:

Originally posted by Logos Logos wrote:


Growls are an important part in many sorts of metal MUSIC.

Exactly. Growling is important for metal music. Here we are talking about progressive music.  I am not saying that metal cannot be progressive - Look at Dream Theater for example.  But progressive music is all about the musicians 'showing off' their ability with their instruments.  Opeth are doing precisely that and even Mikael is doing it - but certainly not when he growls.  IMO Opeth are such a great band that they do not need growling to show how different they are from others.  I am not trying to annoy anyone here, just stating how good they are and IMO they are spoiling it with the growls

Cheers


That is not true. Progressive music is not about the musicians 'showing off' their ability, but the structure of music. Remember that.

And why is Opeth prog, read in their biography on this site

http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_BAN D.asp?band_id=1122.
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Points: 4097 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2005 at 06:11
I didn't hear Roger Waters 'showing off' much with his bass playing, anyway
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Points: 317 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2005 at 10:47
Originally posted by Jim Prog Wizard Jim Prog Wizard wrote:

You can't call a band "progless" because the vocalist has a particular vocal style which could be considered an acquired taste.  Opeth are a great prog band.  True enough, I myself was a bit put off the first time I heard their heavier material, but I've come to realise that Mike's "growling" is actually extremely well done, and can appreciate it as much as his superb "clean" singing.  Mind you, it probably helps having been into metal before I was into prog.
Does Opeth do anything progressive, that's what I want to know before I buy anything.
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Points: 88 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2005 at 11:08

Originally posted by DavidInsabella DavidInsabella wrote:

Does Opeth do anything progressive, that's what I want to know before I buy anything.

yes.
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Points: 317 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2005 at 11:48
Originally posted by colin007 colin007 wrote:

Originally posted by DavidInsabella DavidInsabella wrote:

Does Opeth do anything progressive, that's what I want to know before I buy anything.

yes.

Uh, okay, thanks...
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Points: 369 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2005 at 11:58
Originally posted by goose goose wrote:

I didn't hear Roger Waters 'showing off' much with his bass playing, anyway


Gilmour and his guitar, however...
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Points: 88 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2005 at 12:14
Originally posted by DavidInsabella DavidInsabella wrote:

Originally posted by colin007 colin007 wrote:

Originally posted by DavidInsabella DavidInsabella wrote:

Does Opeth do anything progressive, that's what I want to know before I buy anything.

yes.

Uh, okay, thanks...

get damnation and go from there.  there are a lot of floydian styles and influences, as well as porcupine tree.  so theres the prog, and there are no harsh vocals on that CD.
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Points: 317 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2005 at 10:35
Originally posted by colin007 colin007 wrote:

Originally posted by DavidInsabella DavidInsabella wrote:

Originally posted by colin007 colin007 wrote:

Originally posted by DavidInsabella DavidInsabella wrote:

Does Opeth do anything progressive, that's what I want to know before I buy anything.

yes.

Uh, okay, thanks...

get damnation and go from there.  there are a lot of floydian styles and influences, as well as porcupine tree.  so theres the prog, and there are no harsh vocals on that CD.

Alright, I'll give it a try.
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