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Ty1020 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2005 at 10:09
That's what makes Opeth so good, though. They're all about the contrast between the heavy growling and soft, beautiful singing. If Mikael Akerfeldt can pull off both in a single song, then I say more power to him. I love the way they can go from the most brutal-sounding stuff in prog to quiet, melodic, beautiful pieces. I guess I have an advantage here, because I listened to metal before I listened to prog so I'm used to the heaviness, but you should just give it a chance - stop trying to define what is "prog" and what isn't, and you'll enjoy it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2005 at 10:29

Originally posted by Ty1020 Ty1020 wrote:

That's what makes Opeth so good, though. They're all about the contrast between the heavy growling and soft, beautiful singing. If Mikael Akerfeldt can pull off both in a single song, then I say more power to him. I love the way they can go from the most brutal-sounding stuff in prog to quiet, melodic, beautiful pieces. I guess I have an advantage here, because I listened to metal before I listened to prog so I'm used to the heaviness, but you should just give it a chance - stop trying to define what is "prog" and what isn't, and you'll enjoy it.

Actually, if you read my earlier posts, I was over the trying to define if they are prog or not.  The fact that I started this thread was exactly for this reason.  I fell in love with the music so much that the growls sort of disappointed me.  IMO a band that is this good (technically - particularly the vocalist - during his 'normal' parts) can express gloom, anger or what not in a different way.  However good to say that from the time I started this thread to now, the growls are not bothering me that much.  Obviously the reason being that i totally fell in love with their music! Awesome.  However I will be more than glad for another release in the steps of Damnation - although the band already announced that the next release will the their most brutal one to date!!

Cheers



Edited by Geee
"Just as a bell that has been rung cannot be "unrung", the annoying problem with the Truth is that, once you learn it, you can not "unlearn" it."

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2005 at 22:31
Originally posted by lalala lalala wrote:

dont listen to her... i dont like opeth all that much but my sister loves them so im familiar. i have to say still life is awful though. soooo cheesy. akerfeldt tries being all moralistic... forgiveness, love, respect of religion, blah blah blah. and its worse because he cant write lyrics worth beans. although i cut him slack because english is his second language. still, that album is too fluffy and goody two shoes. ok so not learning to forgive and to maintain a relationship with god means insanity? riiight.


i agree with you people by the way... the growling is very bad. even people who can tolerate it, im sure they cant actually ENJOY it.



I think the album works fine. It's not my favorite Opeth album...My Arms, Your Hearse and Damnation are my two favorites, but I don't think there's anything particularly awful about the lyrics. By the way, I should mention that the narrator's insanity comes from seeing his girlfriend (fiancee? wife?) mistreated by the society around him and eventually executed. I should think that would be rough on anybody's psyche.

And what, precisely, is wrong with learning to forgive and to maintain a relationship with God?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2005 at 10:59

theres nothing wrong with that but its just cornball to make an album about that, esp. a rock album. i dont want to hear akerfeldt encouraging his faith anymore than i expect people to get on a soapbox either. i respect that he believes in god and has good morals but he shouldnt preach. "this is forgiveness, so I know once I repent I seal the lid." *gag*

plus, like i said, mikael just cant write lyrics. and that album is bad at it too... face of melinda in particular.

and i still stand by my statement that i think even those who can tolerate death vocals cant by any means actually ENJOY them. listen to serenity painted death, that chorus... white face, haggard grin or whateva it says... yeesh.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2005 at 23:33
I'm not sure the character of the story is actually doing any repenting or forgiving at that particular moment, considering he follows that very line with the words "I find trust in hate". I don't think he's telling people to convert or anything. Notice that nowhere in there does he say what others should do...just what this one character intends to do (though, in human fashion, there are other darker things mixed in).

And it IS possible to enjoy death-vocals, not just tolerate them, if they are done WELL. I can attest to that because I genuinely do.

Edited by FloydWright
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2005 at 02:21
Originally posted by lalala lalala wrote:

i dont want to hear akerfeldt encouraging his faith
anymore than i expect people to get on a soapbox either. i respect that
he believes in god and has good morals but he shouldnt preach.


plus, like i said, mikael just cant write lyrics. and that album is bad at it
too... face of melinda in particular.




What?? Have you actually read the lyrics? That album is actually
heavily against fundamentalism, and about its non-tolerance of other
beliefs. If anything, Mikael is an atheist. I'll provide you with examples to
prove this point when I have more time.

Mikael is a talented lyricist, although his abilities lie more in "story telling"
than "poetry". Still Life is among my favourite concept albums, and my
next favourite Opeth album after 'Morningrise'



Edited by Eemu Ranta
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FloydWright View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2005 at 11:17
I agree about it being anti-fundamentalist, while at the same time respecting the values that go with a more levelheaded practice of religion.

I'm not sure about him being a complete atheist...I got the feeling he does believe in some kind of force or existence beyond our senses, but perhaps in a more Taoist way. Not sure, though.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2005 at 11:45

It is quite awkward to question Opeth's progressivity...

I know, now all of you ''hardcore'' proggers will say, ''Oh, shut up, that's barely music...''

Yeah, that's probably what the parents of the teenagers who bought In the Court of the Crimson King said... ( Besides what they had to say about the album cover, anyway! )

 

( I'm not comparing the two, but still, you get the idea. )



Edited by Keke
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2005 at 16:42
Originally posted by lalala lalala wrote:

i agree with you people by the way... the growling is very bad. even people who can tolerate it, im sure they cant actually ENJOY it.

Wrong.

I understand why you might have something against growling, I hate most of it myself. Mostly the type you can hear in, for example, Children of Bodom, which is at least in my opinion awful. The growling in bands like that is petty, high-pitched, almost like barking! But now, when Mike of Opeth does it.. heh, at least he does it like a man. :)

I started with the album Blackwater Park and at that time I strongly disliked growling. Hell, I disliked all of metal even. Opeth was the band to change that for me. Long story short, I not only tolerate the growling now but I LOVE it. Seriously, some of his growling just sends shivers down my spine. And no, I do not consider myself a metalhead more so than a prog fan.

After I started liking Opeth, I got a lot more open-minded when it comes to metal music, but I still haven't found anyone whose growls kick my ass more than Mikael's. If anyone has any recommendations on awesome growlers, let me know. :)

Oh, and I also disagree with you about Mike's lyrics. But meh, we're all entitled to our opinion.



Edited by Henkka
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King of Loss View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2005 at 18:05
Originally posted by Henkka Henkka wrote:

[QUOTE=lalala]

i agree with you people by the way... the growling is very bad. even people who can tolerate it, im sure they cant actually ENJOY it.

You need to know the awesome power of powerful low, deep growls at parts when its not abused heavily. As in Day 12: Trauma, Mikael lets out, "I wish you were dead" or something like that, it really gets the point done, but when a lil' baby called Chris Barnes lets out low grunts about butchering babies, then yes its taken too far. Growling can be good, but most of the time, I think its annoying especially with all the "abuse" it has been received.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2005 at 00:39
Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

Originally posted by Henkka Henkka wrote:

[QUOTE=lalala]

i agree with you people by the way... the growling is very bad. even people who can tolerate it, im sure they cant actually ENJOY it.

You need to know the awesome power of powerful low, deep growls at parts when its not abused heavily. As in Day 12: Trauma, Mikael lets out, "I wish you were dead" or something like that, it really gets the point done, but when a lil' baby called Chris Barnes lets out low grunts about butchering babies, then yes its taken too far. Growling can be good, but most of the time, I think its annoying especially with all the "abuse" it has been received.

Actually..

Then you hear his voice, cold and merciless

"You worthless fool, you let her die"

Also,

Your ways can not be justified.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2005 at 20:04
Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

Just for the record I own Blackwater Park and Damnation.

I grew up with Motorhead,Sabbath et al and saw them all live regularly in the 70's,so I understand "metal"......



BwP and Damnation are in their top 3 worst albums.

Motorhead AND Sabbath?! I should back off right now...this guy knows his metal... Check back with me when you know more than 2 bands. Those 2 lost touch very early on. Since their decline, metal has seen countless developments and numerous sub-genres. You don't understand a damn thing about metal.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2005 at 20:22
Then what do you think are their best albums??
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2005 at 23:19
Originally posted by FloydWright FloydWright wrote:

Then what do you think are their best albums??


Still Life is their most balanced release. It combines their older style where they wandered around a lot, but were more adventurous with a bit more structure and formula (they use a TON of barre chords). After Still Life, the other two essential albums are the first two; Morninrise being a tad better by virtue of them figuring themselves out a bit.

The last three albums are just excersises in tedium, with riffs that are seemingly recycled from Still Life. Damnation was an excuse to put out an album that would please a lot of people. I can find a dozen better soft moment from within their older material, no doubt.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2005 at 11:41
Still Life was pretty good, yes...probably my 3rd favorite or so.

As for Morningrise, I find it hard to listen to too often in part because of the mixing, and in part because I think "Black Rose Immortal" was poorly put together. There were many good moments in it...but by no means was it actually a full song that could sustain itself at that length. Still, the improvement between it and Orchid was pretty incredible.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2005 at 17:39

Yea, Orchid for me was just a very average album. It was too Black Metal for me and Mikael's voice was definitely not evolved at that moment. His voice greatly improves on Morningrise and in fact I am very impressed with the song, Black Rose Immortal, however songs on Blackwater Park, I believe, are the pinnacal of Opeth. Amazing variation from light as a lullaby to as heavy and brutal as Doom/Death Metal gets. Really impressive.

The riffs ARE NOT recycled in Blackwater Park. If you consider Death Metal riffs to be recycled, then go listen to some Deicide  and tell me if Opeth's riffs are recycled or not.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2005 at 17:56
Originally posted by Abbath Abbath wrote:


BwP and Damnation are in their top 3 worst albums.


i almost fell out of my chair when i saw this. these are likely among some of my favorite albums of all time, for precisely the reasons given by the people who also favor opeths music. blackwater parks dynamic is incredible, and i think that the clear delineation between quiet and heavy, which is the very crux of their music is very well expressed here. the riffs are catchy, the melodies are captivating... etc. damnation may only dabble in the latter of these two, but it remains so... distant or foreign in some way as a result. the folkish nature of their quiet music is, from my view, intentionally otherworldly and old, and this kind of aesthetic is precisely why im drawn to this part of their music.
matters of taste are not open to critique
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2005 at 18:00
Iscariot, if you put Deliverance and Damnation together, they make one variant and amazing double album. When I listen to Deliverance or Damnation, I must listen to the other one right afterwards.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2005 at 18:06

The lyrics can be mediocre sometimes, but the way he sets the mood and presents those lyrics makes it all better ex.) The phrase "Eerie circles above the water." in Amen Corner. I always thought My Arms Your Hearse had better lyrics.

Opeth was actually supposed to be an instrumental band also, but someone told Mike he had a beautiful voice and i'm glad he continues to sing. They seem to be progressing quite well with each album so maybe his lyrics continue to get better.




Edited by WillieThePimp
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King of Loss View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2005 at 18:08
Actually, Mikael's lyrics are some of the best in METAL, at least. There are just not many Metal bands these days that can write lyrics (well before even worse) and Opeth is one of the few that can write stunningly awesome lyrics :)
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