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Toaster Mantis
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Posted: October 29 2015 at 04:19 |
Guldbamsen wrote:
Toaster Mantis wrote:
By the way, Guldbamsen, interesting namedrop of Swans a page ago because a long while ago I saw someone on RateYourMusic in a review of To Be Kind remark that group is "basically Pink Floyd for goths" at this point in their career. The argument went that this was something very few people notice, because there's not much overlap between those two groups' target audiences.
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Yeah I see that a lot...but then again we all use our own collection as a reference point when trying to describe music. Ask a devout metal head and a reggae nut to describe any given album and you'll see two very different ways of arriving at the exact same place.
It can however be a little frustrating to witness all the youngsters out there who know absolutely nothing of what happened just 15 years earlier. It's often people that start heralding X album as something unequivocally new and edgy, and then it turns out to be the same old brand of post-rock from circa 1979. |
I've noticed more that it's the mid/late 1970s that is the cut-off point for a lot of people into punk/indie/alternative rock, only paying attention to stuff before that if it was a major influence on those later music cultures. Most of the so-called innovations in rock music during the 1990s/2000s are just the results of 1980s indie rock reaching a larger audience, I think most of those artists weren't discovered by people outside of tiny subcultures until the 1990s.
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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Squonk19
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Posted: October 29 2015 at 10:02 |
Sorry I'm joining this thread late - but I'll put in my two pennies-worth! Why do the majority of people find prog rock boring? Songs often too long, less emphasis on vocals, generally not 'boy meets girl' clichéd love songs, structure does not always follow verse/chorus/bridge structure, memorable sing-along melodies/choruses not repeated enough, not enough exposure to complex musical structures via radio/TV/press, current life styles require quick fixes of music with limited attention spans, with the iPod culture of flicking to the next track on a playlist now a major obstacle to sitting down and taking in prog rock. Classical music suffers in a similar way - here in the UK, Classic FM mainly covers the short duration 'hits', while BBC Radio 3 etc. have limited opportunity to show longer or more involved/newer compositions. Modern jazz is the same - trying to get airplay for 'A Love Supreme' by Coltrane is almost impossible. We are merely a small part of a musical spectrum who love our genre and wish others would too - but will always struggle against the powers that be. Regarding why I occasionally find prog rock boring - it is largely a lack of melody, uninspired noodlings or excessive complexity. Sometimes it is a lack of structure or memorable sections that don't grab me. I'm probably considered a less adventurous prog fan - but I still 'like a nice tune, you're forced to!' as Monty Python once said. If I can remember, tap along, air-piano/guitar or sing the next bit of an extended song - it's registered with me and become memorable. So I can enjoy the whole of 'Close to the Edge', Tubular Bells Side 1. 'The Light' or 'Supper's Ready' while much of 'The Whirlwind' or 'Storm Corrosion' drift past me, very nicely by without reaching a depth of involvement - and without the desire for repeated plays to immerse myself in them more and get to know them better. There is a place for more 'ambient' soundscapes - but they are intended not to grab you in the same way. If musicians can take on board why Sides 1 & 4 of Tales from Topographic Oceans works better for most prog listeners than Sides 3 & 4, and why most of us still skip most of Moonchild by KC for the title track that follows, then there might be more awareness of reaching a wider audience. Let's get the punchy melodies out there if the hope we drag in those who can then explore the genre further. That's why I forgive UK's Planet Rock for endless plays of 'Roundabout' in the hope that it is but a short step from them finding a way to 'Awaken'!
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“Living in their pools, they soon forget about the sea.”
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tbonson04
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Joined: June 30 2014
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Posted: November 01 2015 at 19:28 |
NotAProghead wrote:
I guess I like some prog , but there are lots of prog songs and albums that bore me to death.
There are different reasons: 1. Lack of emotion. It's probably the main reason. Music is rather constructed than comes from the heart, as a result it is artificial and, yes, boring. 2. Lack of variety and writing skills. There are ideas but musicians fail to keep the listener's attention during the whole song (piece, album). 3. Lack of originality, lots of bands without their own sound. 4. Simple case, when I understand: music is great, but it's not my cup of tea.
The length does not matter - almost side-long "Echoes" never seemed boring to me, while some 3-5 minute songs seem endless.
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Lack of emotion, lack of variety and writing skills, and lack of originality? Please tell me you're joking and just being sarcastic. If that is what you think I have to believe you have been deaf since birth. If you are not deaf, then you just miss the point of music entirely.
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Dellinger
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Posted: November 01 2015 at 20:20 |
tbonson04 wrote:
NotAProghead wrote:
I guess I like some prog , but there are lots of prog songs and albums that bore me to death.
There are different reasons: 1. Lack of emotion. It's probably the main reason. Music is rather constructed than comes from the heart, as a result it is artificial and, yes, boring. 2. Lack of variety and writing skills. There are ideas but musicians fail to keep the listener's attention during the whole song (piece, album). 3. Lack of originality, lots of bands without their own sound. 4. Simple case, when I understand: music is great, but it's not my cup of tea.
The length does not matter - almost side-long "Echoes" never seemed boring to me, while some 3-5 minute songs seem endless.
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Lack of emotion, lack of variety and writing skills, and lack of originality? Please tell me you're joking and just being sarcastic. If that is what you think I have to believe you have been deaf since birth. If you are not deaf, then you just miss the point of music entirely. | Yeah, actually I like prog because I often find it more more varied (within the genre, within albums, and within the same song) than on other genres, more original, and the artists having wonderful writing skills. And prog can be emotional too... very emotional; perhaps in a different kind of way than pop/rock, but with the development of the melodies within the songs they can achieve a longer lasting emotional impact. Of course, it all depends on the artist and album, they are not all at the same level, and those who do prog for the sake of doing prog can indeed sacrifice their emotion, variaty, and originality in order to do prog.
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TheLionOfPrague
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Posted: November 01 2015 at 21:10 |
I think many prog bands have amazing melodies and better than many classic rock or pop bands. Even when I was very young and started listening to music and I wasn't very interested in complexity, experimentation, etc. and wanted something that was just easy to like instantly there were some prog bands that instantly caught my attention because of how great the melodies were. Then I started appreciating everything else.
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I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place
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I Love Internet
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Posted: November 28 2015 at 10:56 |
I think that some of the soundscapes used in prog can be quite outlandist to people that have a mainstream rock background. Take Beardfish for example - you can´t deny the extreme sillyness of alot of their music. As for 70´s prog - it´s the awful synth sounds AND enough with that freakin church organ already! And then there´s these people who don´t even seem to have the attentionspan to listen thru an entire riff by a progmetal outfit. What I personally could live without is INTRO tracks. I think we´ve heard enough of those. It seems that as years pass in my life I get more and more impatient with every second I wait for something to happen.
That´s the sickness you can see in my common human eyes.
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I like my eggs boiled and that´s it!
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micky
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Posted: November 28 2015 at 12:11 |
same answer I've given over the last 10 years, probably earlier in this thread but too lazy to check, and the best answer there is. Most music speaks to people on a level they can relate to. Music is emotional at its heart. Where prog loses many is its emphasis on the brain over the heart and many people, myself included, think it boring. If I want my brain stimulated, I read a book not musings by dumb ass musicians, but if one wants wants the heart and sould stirred you could read some poetry but nothing does it better than music. As I've often said the best prog aims not for the brain, or the intellect but the heart and soul and when done best it can hit harder and deeper than any 'lesser' form of music. Connecting not just with prissy fussy intellectuals but with midwestern housewives. Some did so, and they became the ones that reached levels of success that others could only dream of. Like Yes or even ELP with their inherent musical complexity. At the heart of it, they simply wrote great songs. They wrote music that anyone could relate to.
Edited by micky - November 28 2015 at 12:13
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Meltdowner
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Posted: November 28 2015 at 12:16 |
^
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micky
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Posted: November 28 2015 at 12:26 |
Meltdowner wrote:
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easier said than done. That is why Yes is head and shoulders above anyone man.. they were one of the few. The only of the big ones IMO that could do so consistently.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Meltdowner
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Posted: November 28 2015 at 12:55 |
^ From the big ones I agree, but there are others. It amazes me when an album seem accessible and for the heart, but when I listen with the brain, I see it has so much musical complexity, it becomes a much more rewarding listening experience.
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zravkapt
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Posted: November 28 2015 at 13:18 |
Prog finds people boring.
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Magma America Great Make Again
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micky
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Posted: November 28 2015 at 13:24 |
progressive fans find prog boring... give us back our progressive music. Not your frickin Flower Kings or Spock's Beard hahah
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Kati
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Posted: November 28 2015 at 15:40 |
A lot Prog unfortunately for me has become saturated with bands performing samey, samey, Rick Wakeman's constant whistling keys added by never ending guitar widling while lacking tunes, with blupblup steel sheet flapping sound blabbering nonstop bass through out keeping you from enjoying the pauses and tempos, not allowing any build ups for crescendos etc etc. . Also most vocalists are not that good, also some take too much importance on the lyrics (I for one, prefer not to be preached upon, don't care about the artist's philosophies or lack thereof) thus some of them forget the most important factor, the music! All this said, Prog when it's good it's really, REALLY, exhilarating, euphoric, exciting brilliant, it keeps you great company for hours on end, even alone listening with headphones, so good it makes you happy and unlike many things the best and unique side of this is that each time you hear a song or album you love, every single time it still feels fresh, just as good if not even better :)
Edited by Kati - November 28 2015 at 15:43
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micky
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Posted: November 28 2015 at 15:47 |
to give David full credit man..
nothing better than great prog.. nothing worse than bad progl
and I'll add the 3rd axiom.. nothing more boring than generic prog.
problem is.. so much can fall into the two later categories.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Raff
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Posted: November 28 2015 at 15:59 |
micky wrote:
progressive fans find prog boring... give us back our progressive music. Not your frickin Flower Kings or Spock's Beard hahah
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Believe me, there is much worse than either of those bands. I often click on albums on Progstreaming, and close the page after a few minutes. At least FK and SB are professional, and their albums do not sound as if they were recorded in their bedroom. Nowadays it is way too easy to record an album, and oversaturation is not doing the scene any favours.
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micky
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Posted: November 28 2015 at 16:09 |
no doubt... they are just favorite punching bags of mine. Excellent well known examples of what I am getting at. Prog rock which is progressive as my big toe. Generic retro prog. Yawn...
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Kati
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Posted: November 28 2015 at 16:15 |
Raff wrote:
micky wrote:
progressive fans find prog boring... give us back our progressive music. Not your frickin Flower Kings or Spock's Beard hahah
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Believe me, there is much worse than either of those bands. I often click on albums on Progstreaming, and close the page after a few minutes. At least FK and SB are professional, and their albums do not sound as if they were recorded in their bedroom. Nowadays it is way too easy to record an album, and oversaturation is not doing the scene any favours.
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The Flower Kings are now almost a tribute of themselves, many don't
realize that their first albums, a difference is that they had a great
percussionist and they had right amount of fun, with Hasse Bruniusson on
percussion and Zoltan Csörsz on drums. Also Daniel Gildenlow although not part
of the initial band (studio album recordings) he was an integral part of their
great fun live performances at the time. Unfortunately, when Daniel became an
official member Zoltan had already left.
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Guldbamsen
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Posted: November 28 2015 at 16:19 |
Love me some Hasse.....though on the sole Nya Ljudbolaget release. What a great album that was (and is). I was rather surprised to learn that he later on joined The Flower Kings. A big change in style.
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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odinalcatraz
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Posted: November 28 2015 at 17:24 |
Guldbamsen wrote:
Love me some Hasse.....though on the sole Nya Ljudbolaget release. What a great album that was (and is). I was rather surprised to learn that he later on joined The Flower Kings. A big change in style. |
I was lucky enough to see Flying Food Circus supporting The Flower Kings years ago. That was fun and I agree with Sonia, the fun aspect is a bit missing in prog. Prog wasn't a plan back in the day and there was the secret! Pop was better too, for exactly the same reasons.
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http://www.corvusstone.com
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Kati
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Posted: November 28 2015 at 17:36 |
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