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Topic ClosedMove 10cc to Crossover Prog?

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TGM: Orb View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Move 10cc to Crossover Prog?
    Posted: September 05 2009 at 09:30
Picked up a few 10cc albums again last week (had them all on tape a few years back, believe it or not, and most of them eventually got recorded over or pinched or both LOL), anyway... I can't think of a band better fitted for 'crossover prog' (meaning no offence to the original addition) - and given that the reason why they should be included (in the existing PR bio) is 'progressive pop', I can't see there being a huge problem with moving them.

Anyway, anyone agree/disagree?

Some thoughts on it:

All sorts of traditional music thrown in to produce sophisticated end products, reggae, samba, doo-wop, as well as more regular pop and rock.
Extended, composed compositions (as opposed to the 'jamming' that sometimes gets called non-prog around here...)... One Night In Paris, Won't Feel The Benefit, etc.,
The Godley-and-Creme-created 'Gizmo', used to alter a guitar's sound or produce a pizzicato strings effect, is quite a 'prog' device, no?
Lots of unusual studio work, such as the mass vocal production on I'm Not In Love
Certainly quirky and unusual lyrics
According to the booklets, and I'm terrible at listening for such things, so I won't take a guess, odd time signatures, tempo changes etc.
Incorporation of keys, frequently.

Well, just throwing it out there... any opinions on this would be nice...


Edited by TGM: Orb - September 05 2009 at 09:42
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Dean View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2009 at 09:34
My initial thoughts would be Godley & Creme first, (for Consequences) , then perhaps 10cc, but I'm not convinced.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2009 at 09:52
Originally posted by TGM: Orb

Move 10cc to Crossover Prog?
What he said^^
Trendsetter win!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2009 at 10:18
Interesting, but I think the clincher is a higher ratio of outright prog tunes. One Night in Paris is a great example. But 10cc's downfall is that they had a wicked sense of humour. And to paraphrase Zappa, Does Comedy belong in  prog ? Most elitists say No.  In RIO/Avant-Garde, maybe, but nowhere else. O.K., a sense of humour is probably good to have when listening to Magma.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2009 at 14:21
Comedy is an almost essential element in prog! 10CC had it in spades. But I just don't think they make it. I believe that for a band to be listed in a proper prog category we should think of them as primarily a prog band - and 10CC are primarily a clever art-pop band. 'No' for me.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2009 at 17:16
It is up to the Admin team to decide if a PR band can be moved or not. I somehow doubt they'll give the green light, though - as they never did in the case of Roxy Music.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2009 at 16:33
Thanks for the input here, folks. @Dean, have to admit, I'm not terribly familiar with Godley and Creme, but, from what I've heard, that'd seem reasonable.

@DB... as far as humour goes... the Canterbury scene is pretty ridiculous on it, surely? (though one has to wonder whether Caravan would be 'prog enough' for some of today's more violent purists LOL...)

'higher ratio of outright prog tunes'

Mm... my issues are twofold; 1. what ratio is good enough?... it seems to basically be a moving and very vague target... especially when releasing 'prog' was, I suspect, not the basic aim of any band working pre-'81. 2. 'Outright prog'... well, it's crossover... we're not looking for Van Der Graaf Generator or Soft Machine here, and I'd thought the synthesis of pop and 'prog' was the basically the prime point of that sub-genre.

@Russell, I'd thought it worked based on what an artist is on the site for rather than what we primarily think of them as?... I mean, 10cc aren't really here at all for Donna, but for albums like Sheet Music, The Original Soundtrack, Deceptive Bends... besides, in any other community, Genesis aren't known primarily for their prog. Also, is art-pop really terribly distinct from Crossover Prog?

@Raff, I hadn't considered that. Have to admit, it's a reasonable point.

Just throwing out a bit of the definition:
'these groups will incorporate many major parts of what defines prog rock: the fusing of rock with the structures and discipline of more traditional musics, the use of syntheisizers and new technologies, intelligent thematics, and the expansion of the form.'

Not meaning to sound too confrontational to anyone here, and I appreciate the feedback... just answering a couple of points.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2009 at 18:33
Originally posted by TGM: Orb

Also, is art-pop really terribly distinct from Crossover Prog?

At this moment in time art-pop (as I understand the term, or Avant Pop as it could also be called) is not something that fits comfortably within Crossover Prog as a whole, but intersects it in someway (ie some Crossover is Art Pop and some Art Pop is Crossover). Therefore art-pop is distinct from Crossover, but not completely seperate. That is not to say it will always be the case since genres and categories are constantly being refined and redefined, but at the moment I cannot see all Art Pop being completely absorbed into the Crossover definition.
 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2009 at 19:43
Originally posted by TGM: Orb


Just throwing out a bit of the definition:
'these groups will incorporate many major parts of what defines prog rock: the fusing of rock with the structures and discipline of more traditional musics, the use of syntheisizers and new technologies, intelligent thematics, and the expansion of the form.'

Not meaning to sound too confrontational to anyone here, and I appreciate the feedback... just answering a couple of points.


also keep in mind the genre definitions here are descriptives of a musical approach, meant more as a reflection and general guide rather than to be firmly enforced, otherwise every band could be in Eclectic or even Avant Garde.. to that extent most prog is 'fusion' or at least a fusion of styles

I know that doesn't really address your main inquiries, but I thought I'd blather on






Edited by Atavachron - September 09 2009 at 19:45
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