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SonicDeath10 
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Joined: November 06 2006
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 Topic: Tarkus vs. Brain Salad Surgery
Posted: September 28 2009 at 09:48 |
A big thing for me is the lyrics: while I never really care for Greg's lyrics on Tarkus (sorta blandly poetic without any real imagery or insight) on Karn Evil 9, Sinfield comes in...and the lyrics are just as bad. The big thing is, the reason I can stomach Tarkus, is because on Karn Evil 9, Greg roars his lyrics and shoves them into your face in a way that you aren't supposed to ignore them. On Tarkus, it's a bit more laid back. So I can handle it better. I also feel that the melodies on Tarkus are stronger. While Keith developed the themes on Karn Evil 9 further, I think he develops them too much; the point where it feels like there are about three melodies on a half hour song. Not good.
However, you are right about the sound of the track. It's incredible. The sound is thick, the opening is incredible (I quite like the introduction, much more than the synth choir of Tarkus) and it is fast paced and entertaining to listen to the different synths, organs, bass, drum and guitar work. Greg shows off some under rated chops on this track.
I'm actually a big fan of the first half of the album. It's just because Karn Evil 9 doesn't work fully for me that I can't appreciate it as much as Tarkus.
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"Good evening hippies." Bobby Boy
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ExittheLemming
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Posted: September 28 2009 at 06:03 |
 SonicDeath10 wrote:
guitargods2009 wrote:
Tarkus. Just that title track along is better than anything on BSS in my opinion.  |
I'd agree with this rather angry newbie. The title track is an incredible piece of music that, quite frankly, the band never even came near. The second side is quite strong in my opinion, and I, in fact, consider this album to be one of THE greatest prog rock albums ever instead of BSS. In fact, I think Karn Evil 9 is self parody: nothing on there they hadn't done better before. For me it's fun, as I do greatly enjoy the way the band interacts with each other, but it's very far below Tarkus. The first side, however, is incredibly strong. It's still Tarkus by a country mile, followed by the debut, Works Volume 2 ( seriously) then BSS, then Trilogy, then Pictures, and then Works Volume 1. |
First up, I am glad you appreciate both albums. However, for me BSS was the culmination of everything they had learned up to that point i.e. they had harnessed and perfected the existing technology of the day and pushed the envelope further than anything dreamed of in '73 with drum synths, polyphonic synths and production techniques (Tarkus sounds its age now IMO) Emerson's compositions display a greater maturity on BSS than Tarkus, with his thematic ideas all having a beginning, development and conclusion. He has admitted that as good as the ideas were on Tarkus, several of them were not explored or developed enough to his satisfaction. Furthermore, the oversights of both Tarkus and Trilogy where some of the material couldn't be replicated live, were addressed on BSS i.e. none of the music was committed to tape unless it could be reproduced faithfully in the live domain right down to the last cymbal stroke. PS Why does everyone hate Benny the Bouncer ? It's a very witty and fun pastiche of UK music hall and comes across as a work of labyrinthine conceptual genius compared to Jeremy Bender are RU Ready Eddy ?  BTW I agree that Works Volume 2 is a whole lot better than it's given credit for
Edited by ExittheLemming - September 28 2009 at 06:05
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SonicDeath10
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Joined: November 06 2006
Location: United States
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Points: 282
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Posted: September 27 2009 at 22:52 |
guitargods2009 wrote:
Tarkus. Just that title track along is better than anything on BSS in my opinion. |
I'd agree with this rather angry newbie. The title track is an incredible piece of music that, quite frankly, the band never even came near. The second side is quite strong in my opinion, and I, in fact, consider this album to be one of THE greatest prog rock albums ever instead of BSS. In fact, I think Karn Evil 9 is self parody: nothing on there they hadn't done better before. For me it's fun, as I do greatly enjoy the way the band interacts with each other, but it's very far below Tarkus. The first side, however, is incredibly strong. It's still Tarkus by a country mile, followed by the debut, Works Volume 2 ( seriously) then BSS, then Trilogy, then Pictures, and then Works Volume 1.
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"Good evening hippies." Bobby Boy
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guitargods2009
Forum Groupie
Joined: September 22 2009
Location: Los Angeles
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Points: 85
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Posted: September 26 2009 at 21:06 |
Tarkus. Just that title track along is better than anything on BSS in my opinion.
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Roj
Special Collaborator
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Posted: September 14 2009 at 03:06 |
Tarkus is a really good album, I'd rate it 4 stars.
BSS however is one of THE greatest prog albums of all, one of the very cornerstones of progressive music. It's pretty much flawless (BTB excepted) and is an automatic 5 star album. I can't believe that any of Karn Evil 9 is considered as filler. I'm astonished it's behind in this poll.
If someone had just arrived out of a 40 year coma and wanted to know what prog is all about, BSS would be one of the first albums I'd play for them, it's that important.
Edited by Roj M30 - September 14 2009 at 03:07
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Tarquin Underspoon
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Joined: September 12 2009
Location: USA
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Posted: September 13 2009 at 23:06 |
Come on, just look at the album covers! A big, metal tanklike armadillo crusing menacingly past a pile of bones on a whimsically striped desert?
.......who needs H.R. Giger?
But seriously, Tarkus wins for me, although I must say I consider both albums to be pretty spotty.
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"WAAAAAAOOOOOUGH! WAAAAAAAUUUUGGHHHH!! WAAAAAOOOO!!!"
-The Great Gig in the Sky
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ghost_of_morphy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
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Points: 2755
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Posted: September 13 2009 at 19:53 |
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BSS has no weak moments. Tarkus does. BSS it is.
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micky
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Posted: September 13 2009 at 14:42 |
JD wrote:
I voted for Tarkus only because it's a rawer recording. BSS is more 'refined'. Gregy had more time to polish his production skills by 1973. If BSS had been done back in 1971 I think it would have had the raw edge the piece deserved. That being said, my favourite is really Trilogy (sans The Sheriff)
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interesting view of the album  not sure if I agree.. but a clappie for using your grey matter..
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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JD
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Posted: September 13 2009 at 14:40 |
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I voted for Tarkus only because it's a rawer recording. BSS is more 'refined'. Gregy had more time to polish his production skills by 1973. If BSS had been done back in 1971 I think it would have had the raw edge the piece deserved. That being said, my favourite is really Trilogy (sans The Sheriff)
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JD
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Joined: February 07 2009
Location: Canada
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Posted: September 13 2009 at 14:33 |
crimson87 wrote:
If ELP is ear cocaine then I am Maradona
Sort of a low blow but I had to do it. He is leaving us out of the World Cup you know... |
"Ear Cocaine? Low blow? Humour, it can be a difficult concept?
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Thank you for supporting independently produced music
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Mladen_Serbia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 13 2009
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Points: 115
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Posted: September 13 2009 at 13:25 |
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Tarkus is saved by the title track from being below average. BSS is more consistent, and even the shorter songs are good, but Karn Evil 9 is the heart of the album, of course.
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crimhead
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: October 10 2006
Location: Missouri
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Posted: September 13 2009 at 12:33 |
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BSS. I have always liked it from day one.
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SouthSideoftheSky
Special Collaborator
Symphonic Team
Joined: June 29 2008
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Posted: September 13 2009 at 12:28 |
For me Brain Salad Surgery is a five star album while Tarkus is only a three star album. I think that every part of Karn Evil 9 is exactly where it should be and it is by far the best piece of music by ELP. Tarkus is also a good piece but I have never considered it on par with Karn Evil 9. The weak spots on the other side of Tarkus brings it down, Are You Ready Eddie? is possibly the worst ELP song ever.
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Zargus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 08 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 3491
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Posted: September 13 2009 at 03:45 |
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BSS.
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crimson87
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 03 2008
Location: Argentina
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Points: 1818
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Posted: September 12 2009 at 22:53 |
If ELP is ear cocaine then I am Maradona
Sort of a low blow but I had to do it. He is leaving us out of the World Cup you know...
Edited by crimson87 - September 12 2009 at 23:05
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Alberto Muņoz
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Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
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Points: 3577
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Posted: September 12 2009 at 22:25 |
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Tarkus
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himtroy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 20 2009
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Points: 1601
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Posted: September 12 2009 at 22:13 |
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I'm a pretty big ELP fan, I love Pictures, the S/t, Tarkus, and Trilogy. But I hate Brain Salad Surgery, it's so hard to not laugh at. It's so commercialized and cheesy.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
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Points: 9869
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Posted: September 12 2009 at 21:59 |
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The 2nd impression has a very tenuous link if at all with the rest of Karn Evil 9 but at least it's fun compared to the rather predictable 3rd impression which ultimately takes too long to make its point. Anyway, Tarkus (the epic) is just as much fun, maybe more, and a lot more focussed, so Tarkus by a long shot. The rest of the songs don't really alter the equation much either way for me.
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micky
Special Collaborator
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Posted: September 12 2009 at 21:05 |
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crap... obviously I meant Karn Evil 9 the epic... feeling this bottle of wine a bit this evening. hahha.
yeah... that is a good signature... I might have to use that after the Del Potro ends Rafa's run tomorrow... or Monday hahahha.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: September 12 2009 at 20:59 |
micky wrote:
for what's it's worth... that is why as an 'epic' I really rate BSS low.. much lower than Tarkus whose simplicity is it's greatest strength.
musically though.. the first two impression were killer filler... and as I like to say... if I want a good story.. I read a book.. not listen to albums. Filler doesn't bother me... I just want to be stimulated musically
and for me.. ELP is ear cocaine... but it isn't for everyone
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The bolded and underlined are killer lines for a signature, unfortunately I'm not the indicated one to put that on my sig.
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Tarkus vs. Brain Salad Surgery
