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Musical maschocism - hit me with your rhythm stick

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Dick Heath View Drop Down
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  Quote Dick Heath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Musical maschocism - hit me with your rhythm stick
    Posted: October 23 2009 at 05:38
I've been amused reading other threads where folks are confessing listening to an album over and over, because the first time they didn't like what they heard, which was the case  the second time, however, by the 5th replay they were starting to like it. Sounds to me like self-imposed torture - although I hold my hand up and say I used to do it. But in part I've learned that critics/reviewers in the press and indeed my friends, don't have identical tastes to me. Also I've learnt there is a helluva lot of good music out waiting for me to hear it and be moved by it ,so why persist with something that leaves me cold even after the second play? However,  that is not to say my tastes have changed - for instance listening to Terry Reid around 1970, I wondered what the fuss was about, then a fresh excursion into his music last year and I found I had changed and so have lapped up most of his albums.
 
So is this a case of some people feeling  compelled to get the 'point ' of an album because some pundit has written thus about it, even though on purchase the enquiring listener doesn't get it the first or second times at least? For instance, how goes Beefhearts Trout Mask Replica for those who purchased it on the back of "glowing recommendations" by pundits from John Peel down and upwards, stating it is THE classic rock album?


Edited by Dick Heath - October 23 2009 at 08:02
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  Quote MaxerJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2009 at 05:49
Oh man i did this for Topographic oceans and MDK and hated myself for about a week for it but after that those albums were magical for me.
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  Quote floydispink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2009 at 06:06
I once listened to a band called Van Der Graaf Generator, and I really didn't like their music at all. It did attract me though, for some reason, and I decided to give them a bit more time. After let's say a month I absolutely loved their music. Now VDGG together with Pink Floyd is my favorite band ever. I've listened to many music which I didn't like at all in the beginning but which did eventually grow on me. ANother example is Pink Floyd's the Final Cut, which I didn't like in the beginning but which I suddenly started to enjoy and became one of the most moving and emotional albums I know. 
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  Quote kingfriso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2009 at 06:56
I do this all the time. With every new Gentle Giant, King Crimson, VdGG I need some time to get into the music, a proces that can be very desturbing in the beginning. In the end I just love music that is kind of hard to understand so I'll have to listen to music I don't understand with every new record. That's part of it. Using the term self-imposed torture while listening to music is totally unprogressive. Futhermore I would like to point out that listening music doesn't always have to be nice or beautiful. It just has to do something with me, some atmosphere that's hard to difine. I like bands who create spaces and atmospheres that don't exist in the real world.
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  Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2009 at 07:26
Still can't listen to Trout Mask all the way through but ok in small doses.

How dare the Premier ignore my invitations? He'll have to go.
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  Quote Dick Heath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2009 at 07:51
Originally posted by chopper

Still can't listen to Trout Mask all the way through but ok in small doses.
 
Ditto
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  Quote Abstrakt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2009 at 07:57
Originally posted by chopper

Still can't listen to Trout Mask all the way through but ok in small doses.


I can! Big smile
But i usually get interupted Angry
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  Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2009 at 07:59
I don't know...most of the time if I loathe something I don't bother with it.

But then I can think of several cases where I do put up with it.

For example, A Passion Play used to bore me to no end, and after months of listening to it (while drinking, most of the time), it grew on me, and now it is without a doubt my second favorite Tull album (and no, Thick as a Brick isn't first Wink).

I don't care much at all for Van der Graaf Generator, but sometimes I get in the mood for it, and I do like Godbluff and H to He Who Am the Only One.  Still can't stand Pawn Hearts though.  Dead
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  Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2009 at 08:00
Originally posted by Dick Heath

Originally posted by chopper

Still can't listen to Trout Mask all the way through but ok in small doses.
 
Ditto

LOL
Yeah, I've kept that one in my collection.  I listen to it all the way through when it comes up in rotation.  Still makes me cringe when it comes up.


Edited by Slartibartfast - October 23 2009 at 08:30
A penny for my thoughts and yet I have to put my two cents in. What the hell is wrong with this equation?

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  Quote harmonium.ro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2009 at 08:07
I used the example of myself giving Pawn Hearts tens of spins until I liked it(somewhere on another thread). Well, I did it because even though I didn't come to like it until those tens of spins were given, I did find the experience very intriguing, at least enough for me to be motivated to give the album another spin... and another spin... For example, I've never felt the need to give any of the Dream Theater albums I've tried more than two spins. 
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  Quote Dick Heath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2009 at 08:54
Originally posted by harmonium.ro

I used the example of myself giving Pawn Hearts tens of spins until I liked it(somewhere on another thread). Well, I did it because even though I didn't come to like it until those tens of spins were given, I did find the experience very intriguing, at least enough for me to be motivated to give the album another spin... and another spin... For example, I've never felt the need to give any of the Dream Theater albums I've tried more than two spins. 
 
Here's a thought: consider why those albums you heard once and fell in love with them, had such a quick effect - and what is different from those you persisted with before getting something from them?
 
As somebody who has received promos for several decades, I often have to make prompt decisions as what to add to programme playlists, therefore tunes have to give me a buzz very quickly. Sure there is the luxury of listening far more thoroughly  later with more time available, and with a different  type of frame of mind then something quite different is likely to be heard.  However, I'm too old to give any album 10 spins with the hope of discovering something that appeals on the 10th play - experience says there is another album in a heap that will appeal.... So might I propose the following: there is a critical mass/number of albums in anybody's collection that needs to be exceeded before  you stop feeling the need to be persistent to discover why other's have recommended any record?Wink
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  Quote fuxi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2009 at 09:45
Back in the 1970s it took me quite a few spins before albums such as TOPOGRAPHIC OCEANS or GENTLE GIANT LIVE really sank in. But now it doesn't matter how complex certain music is, at the first or second spin I can usually tell if I'm going to like it. In about four decades of listening I've tried so many genres and styles, there's very little that seems impenetrable. However, in many cases the question remains: why bother? Someone just mentioned VDGG, a band I did NOT grow up with. I just bought some of their most-praised CDs, and I can tell they're important, but am I ever really going to like them? I'm not sure. The music is so gloomy and sometimes so insane, I'm not sure if I really NEED Peter Hammill's madness... On Discus's two albums, on the other hand, the music is highly intricate and I still do not see how all the interlocking themes fit together, but I have no problem exploring them, as it's all SO MUCH FUN.
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  Quote Dick Heath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2009 at 10:39
Originally posted by fuxi

Back in the 1970s it took me quite a few spins before albums such as TOPOGRAPHIC OCEANS or GENTLE GIANT LIVE really sank in. FUN.
 
Then perhaps its helpful to have a guide specifically to expose you to the music ? In many respects the pre-punk Peel with Top Gear (the other Top Gear btw),  Fluff on his Saturday afternoon rock show, a young Kid Jansen on his Saturday night/Sunday morning LP show on Luxembourg,  and to a less extent Tommy Vance before he swamped his Friday night rock show with boring metal, introduced folks to some new and interesting bands. These guys,  more often as not identified  tracks on albums  that would attract attention given airplay. Having found a chink in the musical armour that might  have sounded difficult to penetrate, then you had more chance of breaking into the rest of the record. Not many dj's on mainstream music radio seem to do that nowadays with new experimental  rock, in my neck of the woods.
 
Peel showed me Soft Machine; Fluff Gentle Giant, Jansen HighTide, T2, Tony Williams Lifetime and these are still very much favourites


Edited by Dick Heath - October 23 2009 at 10:43
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  Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2009 at 11:35
I think that "mood" has a lot to do with it - regardless of how often you play something, if you are not in the mood to be receptive to it then all that will happen is you'll be come innured to its effects, or grow increasingly annoyed by the whole thing.
 
However, there must be something in the music to make me want to play it a second time - subconsciously I must have made a connection to something that says that perseverance will pay-off.
 
Because there are somethings out there that some of us are simply not meant to get - repeated playing of Kansas or Steeley Dan are never going to gel with me, fingernails scratching down a blackboard would have a lesser effect on me than either of those.
 
I've documented my initial not liking of Topographic Oceans before: it was partly through disapointment (I had heard Relayer first and fell for it in a big way, but simply did not like Close To The Edge - I guess I wanted TFTO to be more like Relayer than CttE) and partly because I simply wasn't ready for it back then. The ten or whatever spins it took to "get it" were not repeated plays in the space of a few weeks, but over some 20 years or so. (not unlike Dick's appreciation of Terry "Superlungs" Reid).
 
Another (surprising perhaps) Radio DJ that enlightened me to new music in the 1970s was Jimmy Saville, who was one of the first to play Tangerine Dream on UK radio. Though my "favourite" was always (the original) "Sounds Of The 70s" with its Van der Graff theme tune and Pete Drummond, Anne Nightingale, John Peel etc.
 

"pardon?"

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  Quote jplanet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2009 at 11:41
Sure, this happens to me with music, and very often books as well. It took me a year or two before I genuinely enjoyed King Crimson's Three of a Perfect Pair, but once i got into it I craved it.

Sometimes you can stretch your tastes if the reason you can't get into it initially is because it's a sound you don't expect and need to acclimate to.
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  Quote TGM: Orb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2009 at 11:46
Thread title of the month.
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  Quote Hercules Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2009 at 13:21
I listened to Pawn Hearts and disliked it. So I listened to it a few more times and now I loathe it with a passion. Same with Trout Mask Replica, First Utterance and Frances the Mute - I hated them from the first listen and no amount of exposure is going to change that.

Very few albums/bands suddenly click after repeated plays; Gentle Giant is the only band where that's happened to me. Mostly, if it sounds like s**t first time out, it's because it is s**t.
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you have to eat.
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  Quote Eetu Pellonpää Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2009 at 13:54
Sometimes a record (or those parts you manage to listen of it before quittting) may sound displeasing, but it may stay in your mind, maybe as it is so different, or there is something interesting, yet annoying for that time. The mentioned mood is an important factor I believe. If returns to this record occur, an opinion towards it may change. I have noted that in my nearly maximum 20 years of age knowing some records I still listen, my realtion ship to them alters, by my own moods, nostalghia, and other altering factors. The older and more experienced forumers probalby have deeper insight of this process?
 
Some records are so annoying, that it goes like, "first track, next track, ok this is IMO cr*p, bye".
Some feel like nothing, some inspire much, and some remain to this weird state of cautious uncertainity.
 
Maybe it's nicer to learn to like a record you first did not like, than getting disillusioned to the other direction, this happens too? Smile
 
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  Quote Henry Plainview Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2009 at 14:09
Originally posted by Dick Heath

So might I propose the following: there is a critical mass/number of albums in anybody's collection that needs to be exceeded before  you stop feeling the need to be persistent to discover why other's have recommended any record?Wink
I think there is something to that. But part if it also is that by that time you've already explored most of the really famous albums, so there isn't the pressure to see why so many other people think it's a really great album. A few years ago, I listened to CTTE so many times that I still have parts of it memorized to see if it would become more than a 3 star album. It didn't, and I doubt I would give an album that much time today.
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  Quote Progosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2009 at 17:03
As I have said in other threads, the album has to either be enjoyable or intriguing, and preferably both, if I am going to continue to listen to it.  Some albums turn me off immediately, Zappa's We're Only In It For The Money is one, Dead but others grab me right off the button - Gryphon's Crossing the Styles is a recent example Clap.  Both feature intricate and complex music very few could grasp in a single listen.  I never wanted to hear WOIIFTM again, and still don't, but I looked forward to my next Gryphon listen for weeks after that first one.  Now after many months, I still find elements to it I have overlooked before. 
 
If I think there is something there for me, some sort of payoff for the effort, I will continue to listen.  Sometimes, I don't find it - Porcupine Tree's Fear of a Blank Planet turned out to be a disappointment for me, but at least I can listen to it on occasion and enjoy it.  A challenge is one thing, but a pleasant challenge is another.  All of this is purely for my own enjoyment, so I do not have to make an instant or quick judgement.  Such is a private luxury, not a professional one (and in my profession I have to make quick judgements on other kinds of things). 
 
It does seem to me that many people do listen to an album repeatedly to get what the big deal others are saying about it.  Yes, I have done that in the past and no doubt will do so in the future.  But only if I truly find some kind of interest there.  Fortunately, I have been around long enough to know what I tend to like and dislike.  Not everybody on this site is in that place, though, and it is clear that many are looking for something new, something that will grab them and make them say, "Wow!  That's great stuff!"  When one explores, one must rely on the judgements and recommendations of others.  Only with experience can we find our true musical-listening niche. Geek
You can't develop a better appreciation of the art merely by reading a book about it. If you want to understand music better, you can do nothing more important than listen to it. - Aaron Copland
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