Musical maschocism - hit me with your rhythm stick

Some very interesting posts here certainly. There are however two competing ideas here:

1 - Is there a possibility that without persisting with music that has no initial appeal, you may leave yourself open to the charge of your tastes being a self fulfilling prophecy i.e. how can your musical appreciation grow when you have exhausted all the available music that is consistent with what you already like ?
NB This does not apply to Dick Heath though, as he clearly has been exposed to a far greater amount of challenging music in his lifetime that I will ever be able to appreciate fully. (as a jazz rock specialist) But for the rest of us, we might harbour misgivings about 'cutting ourselves off' from hitherto undiscovered treasures.

2 - At what point do you abandon an album if the only motive that made you listen to it was the high opinion of a third party ?

In the case of the 2nd point, I 'beat myself up' listening to both Miles Davis Agharta and Tool's Lateralus hundreds of times (on account of their 'anointed' status on PA) before being forced to conclude that I consider both to be the type of filler suitable only for diapers. However, had I not persisted in this way, it is unlikely that I would have been able to grow to love both On the Corner and some progressive metal (say Diablo Swing Orchestra and Opeth) 

I guess when you want to try curry for the first time, it's best to start with a mild one rather than run the risk of being forced to put the toilet rolls in the fridge ?.


Edited by ExittheLemming - October 23 2009 at 17:18

Originally posted by Hercules I listened to Pawn Hearts and disliked it. So I listened to it a few more times and now I loathe it with a passion. Same with Trout Mask Replica, First Utterance and Frances the Mute - I hated them from the first listen and no amount of exposure is going to change that. Very few albums/bands suddenly click after repeated plays; Gentle Giant is the only band where that's happened to me. Mostly, if it sounds like s**t first time out, it's because it is s**t.

So that makes all of us liking VdGG, Comus etc. sh*t likers. Wonderful contribution.

Is people's love of Trout Mask Replica like people's love of this ugly little dog?


I do have the sneaking suspicion this dog was hit with a rhythm stick.


Edited by Slartibartfast - October 24 2009 at 05:50

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Is people's love of Trout Mask Replica like people's love of this ugly little dog? I do have the sneaking suspicion this dog was hit with a rhythm stick.

Aww, it's so ugly it's cute.

I find that trying to "get into" stuff that you don't like at first is, in a way, sort of ripping up one's identity in order to internalize something not naturally suited to one's tastes. I think I might have already turned myself into a biological machine with no identity because of doing this too much (or maybe I just felt like saying "biological machine with no identity", but I do feel this way). I can pretty much get into the mindset of liking a huge amount of music that I would have hated back when I had a specific way of thinking about things.

Hold your head like this and go waaaa.

OW!


Edited by Slartibartfast - October 24 2009 at 07:12

Originally posted by BaldJean I rarely find music really painful. if I don't like it is not because it feels painful to me. prog metal is definitely not my favorite genre, but I am not pained by it; I am just disappointed that most bands don't deliver what they promise. they are like dogs that bark (and they do it loud and fast), but they don't really bite. harmonically they are usually very conventional, and the instrumentation is usually pretty conventional too. is there any  prog metal band with a sax player, for example? not that I know of at least; if there is please tell me, and I will give them a listen. a really dirty sax, or perhaps a dirty violin played a bit like Chris Karrer of Amon Düül 2 does, and I would probably like it. after all, I like Skyclad, a metal band which is not prog but plays with a wild violinist. it is by no means metal in general I dislike; I dislike the dichotomy between the dynamic and temporal wildness and the harmonic tameness

Nice post. I always though 'progressive metal' was very tame too. There is almost no progressive metal band that can be discribed as progressive when compared to King Crimson's Lizard. I must say I find Sleepytime Gorilla Museum very original, but they are listed as avant-garde.

Furthermore I want to ad my negative attention comment here (I've read several of them on this topic): Only listening two times to a progressive record is something for sympho-proggers!

Originally posted by Dean Originally posted by kingfriso Originally posted by BaldJean I rarely find music really painful. if I don't like it is not because it feels painful to me. prog metal is definitely not my favorite genre, but I am not pained by it; I am just disappointed that most bands don't deliver what they promise. they are like dogs that bark (and they do it loud and fast), but they don't really bite. harmonically they are usually very conventional, and the instrumentation is usually pretty conventional too. is there any  prog metal band with a sax player, for example? not that I know of at least; if there is please tell me, and I will give them a listen. a really dirty sax, or perhaps a dirty violin played a bit like Chris Karrer of Amon Düül 2 does, and I would probably like it. after all, I like Skyclad, a metal band which is not prog but plays with a wild violinist. it is by no means metal in general I dislike; I dislike the dichotomy between the dynamic and temporal wildness and the harmonic tameness Nice post. I always though 'progressive metal' was very tame too. There is almost no progressive metal band that can be discribed as progressive when compared to King Crimson's Lizard. I must say I find Sleepytime Gorilla Museum very original, but they are listed as avant-garde. Furthermore I want to ad my negative attention comment here (I've read several of them on this topic): Only listening two times to a progressive record is something for sympho-proggers! the one I would suggest is Ephel Duath ~ Jazz/Metal from Italy - though I don't think you'll like them it is difficult to get a real feel for them from a couple of video-clips, never the less, here they are:   Praha (Ancient Gold), from their album The Painter's Palette   Breed, from their latest, Through My Dog's Eyes:

the first track is simply fantastic, Dean; why is not more prog metal like that?
the second would have been great too but for the growling, which I dislike

That is basically what I did with all extreme metal, prog or non-prog (although admittedly I started out listening to Opeth and the other more progressive bands in death metal). I didn't listen to any of the reviews on the internet or whatever though. I figured that because it's such a fast growing underground genre, there must be something special people love about it. So I started out with Still Life - Opeth, and listened out for the things I liked in it, i.e. the guitar solos, clean vocal sections and clean acoustic breaks, but found that in fact, there was a lot more of what I enjoyed than I suspected in the first place. Turns out i must have just heard Mikael's growl and switched off automatically. Before I knew it I was listening to Meshuggah (found a great love inside me for sycopation in metal), Death and other prog metal bands with a bit more punch. I don't think it's musical masochism, rather a case of opening your mind to new stuff. I think anyone can get into anything if they just dedicate a bit of time and patience to it.

Originally posted by The Pessimist I think anyone can get into anything if they just dedicate a bit of time and patience to it.

Partly agreed.  The thing is, music is art and the most important reason for you liking a work of art is you find something to relate to in the artist's ideas and that can only happen when you look at it in a way that throws up things that interest you.  If I had heard Magma when I was 10, I would have surely disliked it because whatever music I had heard till then would not have prepared me for it.  I eventually got to a stage where I could relate to Magma and like it, but the Magma albums are what they have been since they were recorded ...it's only the way one looks at them (or listens to them, shall we say) that MIGHT change with time.  THAT is where a measure of patience and open mindedness can be helpful...if you don't stubbornly impose limits on what you are prepared to listen to, you can get around to any kind of music...IF you have heard the proper starter albums and are 'ready' for it.  In a nutshell, I wouldn't put it down only to time and patience though these are extremely valuable qualities in music appreciation. 

For the record, I didn't find Magma too hard to digest at all but I had the exact experience I mentioned w.r.t looking at albums in a particular way with Wetton KC...I found I only had to learn to listen to LTIA and SABB in a particular way to like it upon doing which great musical expression (though one I'd be hard pressed to put down in words) revealed itself to me.  Nobody told me or could have told me what this particular way was and it could be different for different people - it just clicked one fine day.


Edited by rogerthat - October 24 2009 at 08:59