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Defining the value of "5 star" ratings? |
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Sleep_Within 
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Joined: April 21 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 24 |
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 Topic: Defining the value of "5 star" ratings?Posted: May 10 2012 at 17:44 |
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One of the best posts I've seen on this site.  |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Symphonic Prog Specialist Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Online Status: Offline Posts: 17001 |
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Posted: May 10 2012 at 19:52 |
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And there was a guy who protested for the warning issued by the site when people tried to rate with 5 or 1 stars. Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 10 2012 at 20:11 |
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dtguitarfan
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Joined: June 24 2011 Location: Chattanooga, TN Online Status: Offline Posts: 1325 |
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Posted: May 10 2012 at 20:22 |
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Look, we all know what the warning says. And ideally, only the best of the best of the best would ever be rated with 5 stars...however, lets be realistic - very few people actually do that. Take a look at the top 100 list. My logic goes like this: if I look at the top 100 list for this site and I think an album is better than the album that's the #1 spot for the year...I'm rating it with 5 stars, plain and simple. And I know plenty of people will disagree with me. But hey, freedom of speech and all that...
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felipeterry
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Joined: August 02 2011 Location: Brasil Online Status: Offline Posts: 23 |
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Posted: May 10 2012 at 22:30 |
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I found myself in the same author's problem, and then i came up with this solution:
Arjen Lucassen work, 5 stars. Anything else other stars. Thanks.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: May 10 2012 at 23:27 |
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Interesting, even when sometimes i don't agree with the top 100, and iu hate to rely my opinions in other person tastes. My system is more personal, because I use the albums I previously reviewed as a comparison point.
That normally is enough, and I have reviewed albums of almost every genre, so I'm prepared.for the personal challenge. Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 10 2012 at 23:29 |
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sagichim
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Joined: November 29 2006 Location: Israel Online Status: Offline Posts: 2669 |
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Posted: May 11 2012 at 01:30 |
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Trying to figure out the proper rating for an album, as i see it each rating number has an area, like a low 5 and high 5, but they are both 5. What i mean is for an example i rate King Crimson's Red to be a masterpiece with 5 stars, and some other albums that do not match it up are 5 stars too because while they are not masterpieces they affect me deeply. The same goes for 4 stars and the rest too.
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rdtprog
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Joined: April 04 2009 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 1229 |
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Posted: May 11 2012 at 03:50 |
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a 5 Stars cd, is a cd that i will listen again many times in the future despite the genre.
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HarbouringTheSoul
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Posted: May 11 2012 at 04:02 |
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That's silly. What if you think the #1 spot is a 2-star album? Suddenly you end up with lots of 5-star albums that you might not even enjoy. |
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Sleep_Within
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Joined: April 21 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 24 |
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Posted: May 11 2012 at 05:46 |
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It's interesting to hear how everyone rates albums. Very insightful. 1. First, I listen to the album until I feel I've digested it properly. 2. Then, I rate the album. If the album is very good, I give it three stars. Only if it's exceptional (excellent) and one of my absolute favorites do I raise it to four stars. If I've listened to an album many times (10+) over an extended period of time (preferably months) and the album as a whole continues to captivate and inspire me more with each listen, I rate it five stars. An album I dislike overall and find to have more poor material than good, I give two stars. If I maintain an intense loathing of an album after multiple listens, I rate it one star. 3. It's important to note that I don't take historical significance into account when I rate albums. King Crimson, for example, is undeniably historically essential to the genre. Anyone interested in prog should investigate and become familiar with their discography for that reason alone and, in doing so, are likely to find a great deal of music they enjoy very much and maybe even some personal favorites. However, I personally would only rate one of their albums five stars. 4. After I've rated an album, I like to read through other's reviews more carefully and consider the areas the praise as well as their criticisms. If I'm unswayed, the rating sticks. If I'm unsure, I listen to the album again. 5. Finally, I'm careful not to rate an album when I'm not in the mood for that style since I've found this tends to lower the rating. I'm also careful to not compare the rating I give to one album to the rating I give another since different albums can't be easily compared, especially if they're different styles. Maybe I'm overthinking all this but it makes sense to me.
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"I decided to draw some pictures in the air, pictures of all my imaginations."
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dtguitarfan
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Joined: June 24 2011 Location: Chattanooga, TN Online Status: Offline Posts: 1325 |
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Posted: May 11 2012 at 05:51 |
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Obviously I'm simplifying a bit - I mean, who's my favorite band? Duh, that's hard to figure out. But I didn't even give all of DT's albums 5 stars. Do I think every single one of their albums is better than the ones that usually make it to #1 around here? Definitely. So am I really giving everything that I like more than the #1 spot 5 stars? No. But I'm also not going to be a 5 star miser like a lot of the people in this thread. Basically, I'm going with my gut instinct on an album. Whenever I'm thinking about giving an album 5 stars and am not completely sure, you know another thing I like to do? Come to this forum and start looking at what other people give 5 stars to. Then I don't feel so bad.  |
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Sleep_Within
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Posted: May 11 2012 at 05:51 |
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Yes, it seems like a good idea to view the ratings as ranges rather than precise numbers.
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"I decided to draw some pictures in the air, pictures of all my imaginations."
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Paravion
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Joined: May 01 2010 Location: Denmark Online Status: Offline Posts: 470 |
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Posted: May 11 2012 at 10:05 |
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Yes, but it seems an even better idea abandoning ratings altogether. There's no value to 0-5 star ratings. It's misconceived to think that there exists a description that is able to capture the commonness of all albums rated 5-stars - setting up standards for the correct way to identify a masterpiece is bound to fail. Music is experienced - language, reason and the like are (generally) not well suited to capture a musical experience. Surely you can try - some are very good at it and write interesting reviews - but any such review is an abstraction distorted by language and reason and thus unlikely to capture what I regard as the 'essential' - the actual listening-experience. I know ratings contribute to popularity-lists of various sorts, and that those presumably should ease the decision making process of any 'new to prog' person. I'd sacrifice those lists and welcome an alternative where albums are not considered according to a bad-good continuum and described with as few value-statements as possible. This kind of approach takes serious the non-existence of (objective) value. That said, for practical reasons some sort of value-decision has to be made. Personally I operate with a binary system where albums are considered according to a "potential/non-potential" dichotomy - this is somewhat necessary in choosing what to buy. I usually listen to albums before I buy and usually consider potential based on one listening. It seems to works fine - I always find a lot of music I like. If I like an album - I like it, and that's good and that's it - I don't need to compare it to other albums I like or decide just exactly how good it is. |
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ole-the-first
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Joined: January 03 2012 Location: Russia Online Status: Offline Posts: 645 |
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Posted: May 11 2012 at 10:57 |
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I give one-star ratings only to useless compilations. Because if you're a fan of any band, you should be interested in every their original studio album, thus even the worst studio albums are always 2-stars for me.
Edited by ole-the-first - May 11 2012 at 10:57 |
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This night wounds time.
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lazland
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Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Online Status: Offline Posts: 6493 |
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Posted: May 11 2012 at 11:07 |
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Why? I try not to write as a "fan", but as an objective reviewer (although I will admit straight away I don't always get it right). A terrible album is a terrible album, whether you are a fan or not.
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In Lazland, life is transient. Prog is permanent. |
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ole-the-first
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Posted: May 11 2012 at 11:20 |
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^2 star rating still tells us that this is a poor album which you better keep on distance from you ears if you're not a fan of any band at all.
Maybe if the album would be really terrible with really no positive moments on it, maybe I'd give that album a 1-star rating too. But I just can't remember any album like that  I guess I yet to know what real sh*t music is.Edited by ole-the-first - May 11 2012 at 11:27 |
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This night wounds time.
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ole-the-first
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Posted: May 11 2012 at 11:26 |
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Actually I usually prefer 10-stars rating system:
10: an utter masterpiece 9: almost a masterpiece, maybe with some insignificant flaws 8: a very solid, very good album 7: good stuff 6: rather good, but still not essential 5: neither or rather poor 4: bad 3: very bad 2: sh*t 1: utter sh*t For me, in 5-star rating system 1 to 3 is 1 star 4 to 5 is 2 stars 6 to 7 is 3 stars 7 to 9 is 4 stars 9 to 10 is 5 stars |
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This night wounds time.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Symphonic Prog Specialist Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Online Status: Offline Posts: 17001 |
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Posted: May 11 2012 at 11:32 |
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Sorry, but completely disagree SOME compilations are useful, sometimes when I'm not familiar with a band, I buy them, as a fact I believe that compilations as Hocus Pocus - The Best of Focus is the best introduction to the band, and for many people who like Focus but don't want to spend too much money, the only thing they need (except maybe Hamburger Concerto). Of course when you have 5 or 6 compilations of one band it's an abuse to capture innocent idiots and make them waste their money. I don't care for every studio album of every band, there's nothing that forces me to buy a mediocre album like Love Beach or In the Hot Seat, just because I like ELP. There are 4 stars compilations (hardly a 5 stars one) and studio albums that would deserve 0 stars if that was possible. Iván
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lazland
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Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Online Status: Offline Posts: 6493 |
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Posted: May 11 2012 at 11:55 |
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And a look at my reviews will see that I very rarely give a one star rating. It has to be really bad. I sympathise with your 10 point rating system, but we have what we have here
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In Lazland, life is transient. Prog is permanent. |
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Junges
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Joined: February 19 2006 Location: Brazil Online Status: Offline Posts: 221 |
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Posted: May 11 2012 at 12:14 |
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For me it is simple: Is it essential? Yes? So 5 stars.
There are cases like In the Court of the Crimson King that has a song like "Moonchild" where nothing happens and it sucks badly. But does that make the album unessential? No. So 5 stars anyway.
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Slartibartfast
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Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Online Status: Offline Posts: 26002 |
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Posted: May 11 2012 at 12:49 |
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De value is tree-fiffty.
Edited by Slartibartfast - May 11 2012 at 13:15 |
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