Zappa's orchestral works |
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LiquidEternity
Prog Reviewer Joined: December 07 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 900 |
Topic: Zappa's orchestral works Posted: December 08 2009 at 23:49 |
Well, I'm a big fan of Zappa's jazz efforts, but lately I've been looking into his orchestral stuff, and I don't really know what to do. You know how scary his discography can be, and I'm trying to limit spending at the moment, so...
Can anyone compare Orchestral Favorites, London Symphony Orchestra, The Yellow Shark, The Perfect Stranger, and whatever else might be a contender for that category? They all sound so tantalizing, but you know how it goes with Frank's stuff. What is your favorite of these? What one would you recommend above any of the others? Hopefully I'll eventually end up with all of them. And the ratings on this site are sufficiently low enough in number that they don't tell me much of anything. So, Zappa nerds, any thoughts? Or will this just sink gradually towards the floor of the forum? And it's okay if you don't want to answer my question but rather just talk about how great Zappa's orchestras were or whatever you want. I don't know. I'm very sleepy. And when I'm tired I write too much and don't necessarily realize when it doesn't make much sense. |
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SaltyJon
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 08 2008 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 28772 |
Posted: December 09 2009 at 01:16 |
I've only heard the Perfect Stranger, but I liked it and I've heard good things about the others. That's probably not very helpful, is it?
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WalterDigsTunes
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 11 2007 Location: SanDiegoTijuana Status: Offline Points: 4373 |
Posted: December 09 2009 at 01:39 |
Orchestral Favorites: Three out of the five tracks are on Lather. Those that feature on the album are good but they're not the most exciting things in that particular smorgasbord.
LSO: The question is whether you're getting the two CD set or the vinyl issues. Seems that the compact disc editions are completely remixed. Zappa made a big deal of how much post-production editing was necessary to make thing thing sound good. I have the compacts discs, and I found it alright. Still haven't given it another spin, mind. Perfect Stranger: I dunno. Seems to have some synclavier stuff in addition to the orchestral pieces. Yellow Shark: Ah, see, this is where its at. The Ensemble Modern did a great job. Unlike the LSO, they rehearsed and it shows. Plus, they seem to be having a great time. Besides that, the humour quotient is far higher on here. I'd say this might be the best place to start, just don't expect the rest of the orchestral stuff to be as good. |
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Adams Bolero
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 07 2009 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 679 |
Posted: December 09 2009 at 07:26 |
''The Perfect Stranger' is my favourite but ''Yellow Shark'' is a close second. |
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WalterDigsTunes
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 11 2007 Location: SanDiegoTijuana Status: Offline Points: 4373 |
Posted: December 09 2009 at 18:33 |
Also, just for a lark, you might enjoy looking at who performed on the Orchestral Favourites pieces:
http://www.globalia.net/donlope/fz/musicians/AEEO.html Edited by WalterDigsTunes - December 09 2009 at 18:35 |
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progkidjoel
Prog Reviewer Joined: March 02 2009 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 19643 |
Posted: December 09 2009 at 18:59 |
You guys might like this video...
Some epic quotes in this interview |
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zappaholic
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 24 2006 Location: flyover country Status: Offline Points: 2822 |
Posted: December 09 2009 at 20:13 |
My favorite individual piece is "Pedro's Dowry". Best album overall is probably The Yellow Shark. You may wish to start off with the Strictly Genteel compilation, which is a mix of orchestral stuff and Mothers-type stuff that could conceivably translate well to an orchestral setting.
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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken
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LiquidEternity
Prog Reviewer Joined: December 07 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 900 |
Posted: December 11 2009 at 22:29 |
The Yellow Shark is certainly sounding the most promising. Thanks for all y'all's input. Short of his 80s satire-pop and his 90s avant-garde work, his orchestral side is the only major facet of his I haven't really delved into. We'll see how this goes.
I absolutely love the blend of jazz and classical on Make a Jazz Noise Here. Surely I'm not the only one. This is quickly turning into one of my favorite Zappa albums yet. |
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29625 |
Posted: December 11 2009 at 22:45 |
To be honest, while I have some of his orchestral stuff and appreciate what he did as a composer, the other material is more appealing to me. And I do include Thing Fish in that category.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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LiquidEternity
Prog Reviewer Joined: December 07 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 900 |
Posted: December 11 2009 at 22:50 |
Yeah, my main beat is his mid-70s jazz stuff. But lately I've been branching out pretty effectively, moving backwards towards a solid enjoyment of the over-the-top silly of early Mothers music, mainly. But I've been curious, you know? And his big band orchestrations are fantastic, like The Grand Wazoo or Waka/Jawaka.
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jammun
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 14 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3449 |
Posted: December 11 2009 at 23:07 |
Sadly must admit I've not been a big fan of his 'serious' music. I haven't heard Yellow Shark, however. I always found there was enough seriousness embedded in his 'rock' music to keep this guy occupied for hmmm 40 years now. So no recommendations other than Lather, which has some or all of the Orchestral Favorites stuff. See my recent post regarding completionism as to why I passed on some of the LSO recordings etc.
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
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LiquidEternity
Prog Reviewer Joined: December 07 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 900 |
Posted: December 11 2009 at 23:18 |
Yeah, I've backed off the completionist aspect of my personality as much as I can. I've sold back the Zappa releases I don't like all that much, despite my fears that I would come to love them if I just kept them. Lather seems neat, minus the fact that I already have almost all its music, and almost all in the same versions. So I don't see the need for that thing.
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Makntak
Forum Newbie Joined: June 10 2008 Location: London, UK Status: Offline Points: 23 |
Posted: December 22 2009 at 11:08 |
I think I agree with the majority here and would say 'Yellow Shark' is the best of his orchestral works. The performances and the recording are first class, however, some of the tunes on there are amongst Zappas least accessible. I certainly find it one of the most challenging albums to listen to from start to finish and I am a bit of a Zapnerd. In this regard, Orchestral Favorites is probably a better avenue into the treasures of his chamber pieces, especially if you like Waka/Jawaka and The Grand Wazoo. The natural progression from here is 'Boulez Conducts Zappa' for some amazing interpretations of this material. The production and the performances are crystal clear, but be warned - 4 of the tracks are FZ twiddling about on his Synclavier, that which he credits as 'The Barking Pumpkin Digital Gratification Consort'
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Makntak
Forum Newbie Joined: June 10 2008 Location: London, UK Status: Offline Points: 23 |
Posted: December 22 2009 at 11:19 |
Having said that, you could do worse that getting your hands on a copy of 'Strictly Genteel' which is a compilation of most of his classical ensemble works in one place and a very good one at that. However, it was compiled posthumously and I am a bit - no, a lot - suspicious of these posthumous releases however worthy they be. Nevertheless, I do possess it and it is a top notch way to enjoy his classical compositions in one sitting as well as a good way to introduce people to the range of styles he could work in.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16136 |
Posted: December 23 2009 at 19:50 |
Hi,
I would be less concerned with trying to appease a taste ... that is not the same as yours and you are hoping that the words and thoughts that we have translate so you can also enjoy it in the same manner ... that is facile, and silly ... and a recipe for you to endup not appreciating something on your own ...
Frank Zappa, above all is about individuality and individualism ... and what you are requesting is ... to take that out ...
I always thought that Frank's music is Frank's music ... and you will appreciate it as such ... not because someone said it ... c'mon ... even his lyrics and attitudes are all about that ... take a hint ...
What I want is the stuff that was done in Vienna, with the Orchestra ... in its entirety ... where is it? ... not bits and pieces that we think sounds like this ... or that ... or this ... or that ... or because someone else said that I needed to hear that.
Art and music is more important and has more value when you "find it" ... and it "finds you" ... and for artists like Frank Zappa ... that is specially important and valuable ... as you can get to find your own direct link to the music or lyrics or what not ... that helps you center and connect with his work ... anything else, will make your understanding and connection jaded and less valuable.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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LiquidEternity
Prog Reviewer Joined: December 07 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 900 |
Posted: December 25 2009 at 08:31 |
@Maktnak: Thanks. Also, I am not at all opposed to the Sinclavier like so many seem to be. I love Jazz from Hell.
And @moshkito: I'm confused. Are you attacking me because I am looking for an entry album into something new for me? For starters, I love classical and orchestral music. I am not conforming to Zappa or to anyone else, just seeing that he wrote a handful of albums that appeal to a completely different side of me. I'm not looking for a favorite, I am not looking to see who can explain to me the best why I should love any certain album. I need an entry. Like with Magma, like with avant-garde things, music that is different from my usual requires a transition. I am merely seeking that one. Get off your high horse. I know what music I like and I know how to find it. The people on this site are the most valuable source of information on this kind of thing that I've found anywhere. And if seeking new music or new CDs should be done with complete individuality and the absence of others' opinions, what on earth is this site for, anyways? |
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Makntak
Forum Newbie Joined: June 10 2008 Location: London, UK Status: Offline Points: 23 |
Posted: December 31 2009 at 05:56 |
Incidentally, As you like both Waka/Jawaka and The Grand Wazoo can I recommend you 'Sleep Dirt' . I think it's my favourite album of Zappa's canon. 'The Ocean isThe Ultimate Solution' (the last track) is an amazing piece of work.
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Whoever Controls Your Eyeballs Rules The World |
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WalterDigsTunes
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 11 2007 Location: SanDiegoTijuana Status: Offline Points: 4373 |
Posted: December 31 2009 at 10:58 |
If it makes you feel any better, I never have any idea what he's talking about. I think he might've been trying to give you a compliment, though its honestly too testing to try and check. |
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LiquidEternity
Prog Reviewer Joined: December 07 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 900 |
Posted: December 31 2009 at 15:43 |
Already is one of my favorites of his. The Ocean Is the Ultimate Solution is way up there on the list. |
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