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Topic ClosedWhy Steely Dan is crossover?

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O666 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why Steely Dan is crossover?
    Posted: January 03 2010 at 05:21
Hi. I want to know WHY STEELY DAN is crossover-prog? I know this band for 20 years and i have all  SD albums. I think this band very near to JAZZ . I find prog elements in SD and i know SD is one of good prog bands. But why crossover? in 3 first album you find very sharpy melodies in ROCK'N ROLL style. after that band change direction to JAZZ and FUSION. I know we cant say 100% FUSION but SD very near to FUSION. SD move in edge of JAZZ genres. After AJA album you can see SD goes to full jazz band. I think we must change sub-genre of this band from  crossover to jazz-fusion. This is my opinion and i just talk about my opinion. i know many of PA fans attack to me for this post and i know this is dangerous for me! Shocked
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2010 at 05:23
Don't be afraid to speak up, brother!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2010 at 05:34
You know . Me and other IRANIAN people afraid to speak. In IRAN goverment arrest us. kill us, and torture us. But we want to speak. I dont want go to political things. maybe goverment arrest me. I just want to talk about MUSIC. MUSIC is the only thing i have to talk about that freely. Thank you BRO.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2010 at 05:36
I'm not bothered - if the JR/F team wants them they can have them with my blessing.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2010 at 06:23
I'd prefer Steely Dan be under jazz/rock, too.  But often artists aren't a perfect fit for any of the sub-genres we have defined here.  So make your case with the folks on that team, you might just get lucky.  Big smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2010 at 06:34
Traditionally Steely Dan is often placed under jazz-rock label, and there is a big part of truth. But the main reason I think is their jazzy arrangements, not music by itself. If you will remove jazzy arrangements, which heavily influence their sound, you will find pure art-rock (or soft-rock,or pop-rock,if you want) on the level of 10 CC. So, I think it is more correct to name their music kind of art-rock with jazzy arrangements ( which menas that they are placed correctly under crossover prog).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2010 at 07:01
I'm posting on behalf of Micky here (he's still not woken up completely yetLOL), who did the addition at the time. Obviously, the band's placement was discussed at length before the actual addition, and the members of the JR/F team - who all agreed with having SD here - thought it would be better placed in Xover. As simple as that.  On a personal note, I think they would fit JR/F better as well, but am definitely not losing sleep over that.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2010 at 07:17
I'm happy with SD being moved to JR. If someone wants to see if Heath and Alucard agree, then we can move them.

In fact, send Dick Heath and Alucard a PM and see if they will visit this thread and drop off an opinion.

Edited by Easy Money - January 03 2010 at 09:38
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2010 at 07:51
That's what I was thinking a few days ago! They're not really X-Over and they are really JR/F.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2010 at 15:51
I agree. It's been two years since I got into this site and it still surprises me that Steely Dan aren't in the Jazz-Rock Fusion section. LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2010 at 17:00
Originally posted by snobb

Traditionally Steely Dan is often placed under jazz-rock label, and there is a big part of truth. But the main reason I think is their jazzy arrangements, not music by itself. If you will remove jazzy arrangements, which heavily influence their sound, you will find pure art-rock (or soft-rock,or pop-rock,if you want) on the level of 10 CC. So, I think it is more correct to name their music kind of art-rock with jazzy arrangements ( which menas that they are placed correctly under crossover prog).



I'm with Slava here.  They would seem to be the perfect fit for this definition:

Crossover Prog definition

Crossover Prog contains progressive rock music that, though 100% progressive, may have a musical connection to popular music-- whether it be the lack of emphasis on extended compositions, or an influence from mainstream music in addition to classical, jazz and folk. Compositions, however, still exhibit a high degree of sophistication, sometimes outright complexity, and the musicianship and virtuosity is often on a par with established Prog acts. Much like their kin in the established prog sub-genres, these groups will incorporate many major parts of what defines prog rock: the fusing of rock with the structures and discipline of more traditional musics, the use of syntheisizers and new technologies, intelligent thematics, and the expansion of the form


They certainly don't sound like straight up jazz genre to me, but then I'm no expert in that area. 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2010 at 17:12
They are not a straight up Jazz Rock band, they add r&b and pop rock into their music. I would not put them into the  jazz rock /fusion category.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2010 at 17:13
Originally posted by Raff

I'm posting on behalf of Micky here (he's still not woken up completely yetLOL), who did the addition at the time. Obviously, the band's placement was discussed at length before the actual addition, and the members of the JR/F team - who all agreed with having SD here - thought it would be better placed in Xover. As simple as that.  On a personal note, I think they would fit JR/F better as well, but am definitely not losing sleep over that.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2010 at 05:14
Originally posted by Finnforest

Originally posted by snobb

Traditionally Steely Dan is often placed under jazz-rock label, and there is a big part of truth. But the main reason I think is their jazzy arrangements, not music by itself. If you will remove jazzy arrangements, which heavily influence their sound, you will find pure art-rock (or soft-rock,or pop-rock,if you want) on the level of 10 CC. So, I think it is more correct to name their music kind of art-rock with jazzy arrangements ( which menas that they are placed correctly under crossover prog).



I'm with Slava here.  They would seem to be the perfect fit for this definition:

Crossover Prog definition

Crossover Prog contains progressive rock music that, though 100% progressive, may have a musical connection to popular music-- whether it be the lack of emphasis on extended compositions, or an influence from mainstream music in addition to classical, jazz and folk. Compositions, however, still exhibit a high degree of sophistication, sometimes outright complexity, and the musicianship and virtuosity is often on a par with established Prog acts. Much like their kin in the established prog sub-genres, these groups will incorporate many major parts of what defines prog rock: the fusing of rock with the structures and discipline of more traditional musics, the use of syntheisizers and new technologies, intelligent thematics, and the expansion of the form


They certainly don't sound like straight up jazz genre to me, but then I'm no expert in that area. 
 
 
I'm also one that thought that SD  is not JR/F enough to fit in that section....
 
 
Basically this is well West Coast pop rock bordering soft rock with jazzy arrangements.   More than being progressive..... I think SD is about two guys being pure professional and using every string possible to write excellent songs..... these two guys were pros in tight songwriting, but they never really let it all out musically speaking .... no great long solos, no suites, no improvs;...... mostly straight ahead songs, no matter how well made....
 
 
 
I fought for SD's inclusion, but viewed it more as prog-related than a full-blown prog category
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2010 at 07:09
Donald Fagen and Walter Becker build SD. If you listen to their solo album, you see i say correct. You know every bands have important member to direct bands act. If you see Crossover definition and focus only to DEFINITION , maybe all of pop rock or alternative or indie rock bands seem like crossover! but you must find PROG elements for categorize bands under this definition. When we have good definition for JR/F sub genre we must use it for nearest shape. AND i dont think SD is pop or commerical band. You cant remove arrangements of bands then categorize it!!!! All part of musical structure must see together. i believe SD is a jazz rock band.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2010 at 07:18
Crossover is the place for them IMO. There are as many pop/ rock elements in their sound as there are jazz elements. They are not what I would describe as a hardcore jazz rock/ fusion act. But I think the JR/F team should decide on this one.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2010 at 09:05
Originally posted by FusionKing

I agree. It's been two years since I got into this site and it still surprises me that Steely Dan aren't in the Jazz-Rock Fusion section. LOL
 
I'm not sure Steely dan's inclusion in PA is older than one yearWink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2010 at 12:23
Are you sure? I could have sworn they've been on this site for quite some time now...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2010 at 13:05
SD were added August 2008...


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2010 at 10:56
Guys. SD is one of progressive bands. I dont care when SD inclusion in PA. I talk about genre. I dont mean SD is full jazz/fusion in all albums. I say you can find more jazz elements in SD . maybe i mistake. After " AJA" album SD use more jazz elements to make albums. " AJA " is one of important jazz rock album with prog touch .I say if you want categorize SD in PA with PA definition, this band close to JR/F style. This is one proposal.
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