Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - The Influence of Rush on Hard Rock
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedThe Influence of Rush on Hard Rock

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
Tanstaafl View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie


Joined: January 11 2010
Location: Maine
Status: Offline
Points: 5
Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Influence of Rush on Hard Rock
    Posted: January 11 2010 at 17:32
Hey everyone, new member here. I'm a junior to progressive rock, the only bands I am more than just familiar with are Rush, Yes, and Porcupine Tree. I have listened to some Spock's Beard (and enjoyed it) and I plan on picking up In The Court of the Crimson King as soon as possible.

As to the topic, well, I'm doing a project in my AP Literature class that discusses and compares a muscian and a writer. I have chosen Rush and Robert A. Heinlein. One of the things I have to learn about is the influence my artists have had. So, where better to ask than a progressive rock forum? So, I was wondering if any of you could help either point me to sources that discuss Rush's influence or just provide some feed back. My tentative thesis is to compare the influence both Rush and Heinlein have had by injecting meaning, scope, and philosophy into their art.

I've got like a dozen projects to keep up with right now but I'm hoping after this busy season dies down I'll be able to become a regular user around this board. I love forums and am becoming a bigger and bigger fan of progressive rock.
Back to Top
Catcher10 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Online
Points: 7112
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2010 at 22:09
By influence I assume you mean writing influences? If so then in Rush, Neil Peart is the lyricist for the band and his writing style early on was science fiction and fantasy based and more recently has been along the humanitarian and or social issues. Those influences have mainly come from writers like Ayn Rand.
I'm sure you can find a lot more information by searching for Neil Peart lyrics and from his website.
 
Good luck
Back to Top
Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15428
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2010 at 22:27
I'm sure hard rock influenced Rush instead of the reverse. However, your post seems to be asking something completely different so I have no idea. Might want to be a bit more specific with what you're asking. 
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Status: Online
Points: 48318
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2010 at 22:33
I suspect Rush had quite a significant impact on the meaning in and/or lyrical content of much rock music that came afterward, especially post-1980 when lyrical depth, at least from an artistic/poetic perspective, was less valued in popular music. Rush was one of the few old school bands that maintained a level of lyrical integrity even on their lesser albums, showing you could do smart and hard-hitting rock.

As far as actual philosophic or political influence, that's much less clear or likely, though songs as 'Freewill', 'Witch Hunt', or 'Subdivisions' among others do have clear intentions and strong philosophic content, and may have minor social impact (they certainly resonated with me and my friends when we were younger). But Rush have never been political like U2, John Lennon or Sinead O'Connor.

Back to Top
M27Barney View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
Status: Offline
Points: 1541
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2010 at 06:54
Try this link - has other sources to invstigate - good luck
http://www.nyu.edu/projects/sciabarra/essays/rush.htm
Play me my song.....Here it comes again.......
Back to Top
Tanstaafl View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie


Joined: January 11 2010
Location: Maine
Status: Offline
Points: 5
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2010 at 07:00
The main thing I'm looking for is whether or not Rush has directly influenced other bands by including songs with a wider scope, more meaningful lyrics, and complex arrangements. Also, if there is another band that you think might fit this description a little better I would be happy to consider them. I mean, Heinlein revolutionized science fiction, Rush certainly had influence but no where near to the degree of Heinlein. But still, from what I know, Rush was including complex songs and meaningful lyrics when many other bands weren't. I just don't know if other bands followed them in this idea. 
Back to Top
harmonium.ro View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22979
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2010 at 07:09
I think you should check out the 80s metal scene and the early progressive metal movement. In rock there were other major influences by the time Rush got big.
Back to Top
rdtprog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Heavy Prog Team

Joined: April 04 2009
Location: Mtl, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1671
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2010 at 07:30
You can look to this book to cover some parts of your subject : "Rush Rock Music and the Middle Class" by Chris Macdonald. The author talk a bit about the writing on Rush music and the philosophy behind it. But he doesn't check the influence of the band on Hard Rock. He looks at the role of social class in  Rush music and philosoophy.
“Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.”
― Frank Zappa

"I am not afraid of Death, I just don't want to be there when it happens".

- Woody Allen





Back to Top
Blacksword View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 11482
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2010 at 07:41
The influence of Rush on hard rock has been very broad. Everyone from The Manic Street Preachers and Catherine Wheel to Dream Theater and Spocks Beard are clearly influenced by them. Their influences were clearly The Who, The Yardbirds, Cream, Led Zep and (according to them) Yes too. Among others..

Rush have been an inspiration to many bands. Nicky Wire of The Manic Street Preachers once said they used to have the lyrics to 'Sprit of Radio' printed out on sheets of paper, on the stage whenever they performed, to 'inspire' them.

In terms of their lyrics, Peart was an avid reader of Ayn Rand, and an advocate of her contraversial political philosophy of 'objectivism' In 1979, an NME journalist accused him of being facist. Peart has since distanced himself from this, and his lyrics, since the mid 80's have become more 'touchy feely' dealing with themes of grief and loss (Afterimage) surpression of emotions (Open Secrets) and the sadness of the years passing so quickly (Time Stand Still) There are obviously hunderds of other examples.

You'll need to Google away to find out more. Just bear in mind, that unless you're reading from an offical approved Rush source, all opinions will be just that...opinions.
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
Back to Top
Tanstaafl View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie


Joined: January 11 2010
Location: Maine
Status: Offline
Points: 5
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2010 at 12:37
Thank you everyone for your recommendations and insight! The more research I do the less influential Rush seems to be, which is kind of disappointing but might make for an interesting paper. I may compare how Rush and Heinlein were similar in their injections of philosophy to their work but then discuss why Heinlein managed to revolutionize the genre while Rush remained more of a gem among the coal. 
Back to Top
Alberto Muñoz View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3565
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2010 at 13:16
A Great band i like his early to mid period of his music, i found songs like By Tor and The Snow Dog, Necromancer, The Fountain of Lammenth ,2112, Xanadu, fascinating.
 
I think that Hard Rock influence Rush.


Back to Top
Tanstaafl View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie


Joined: January 11 2010
Location: Maine
Status: Offline
Points: 5
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2010 at 13:20
I certainly agree that Rush was greatly influenced by hard rock. I have heard that Rush could be considered a combination of Yes and Led Zeppelin, which sounds pretty accurate. What I mean when I say they influenced hard rock, was by them being one of the first "progressive hard rock" bands. I'm not sure about this though. While Yes wasn't metal, there music certainly wasn't very light and King Crimson had some pretty hard stuff. Could Rush be considered influential as being one of the first hard progressive rock bands?
Back to Top
lazland View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 7284
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2010 at 15:44
I can't really add much more to the points made here about Rush's influence on hard rock. I love the band, but always felt that they were more influenced by (certainly) Led Zeppelin and other bands in their early work. My feeling is they became more influential on the wider rock world when they began to experiment a bit more in the 1980's.

In terms of influence, Heinlein, of course, was far more so. As a previous poster said, he revolutionised sciemce fiction literature, appalled much of middle class America with some of his works, and remained a hugely controversial figure, to say the least.

My advice, for what it's worth, would be to concentrate on just the one subject, and make that Heinlein.


In Lazland, life is transient. Prog is permanent.
Back to Top
BaldJean View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 5952
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2010 at 15:56
Originally posted by Tanstaafl Tanstaafl wrote:

I certainly agree that Rush was greatly influenced by hard rock. I have heard that Rush could be considered a combination of Yes and Led Zeppelin, which sounds pretty accurate. What I mean when I say they influenced hard rock, was by them being one of the first "progressive hard rock" bands. I'm not sure about this though. While Yes wasn't metal, there music certainly wasn't very light and King Crimson had some pretty hard stuff. Could Rush be considered influential as being one of the first hard progressive rock bands?

a definite "no" to that. there had been hard progressive bands long before Rush. just listen to High Tide's first album "Sea Shanties" from 1969 or Guru Guru's "Hinten" from 1970. and that's just two examples. Wallenstein is another example


Edited by BaldJean - January 12 2010 at 16:01

A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival.
Back to Top
Tony R View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: July 16 2004
Location: Bolton, Lancs
Status: Offline
Points: 1001942
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2010 at 16:11
Quote Could Rush be considered influential as being one of the first hard progressive rock bands?


Yup, definitely one of the first. You could certainly hear their influence in Iron Maiden, early Def Leppard, Queensryche, Dream Theater, Tiles, and Muse.


Back to Top
Raff View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 29 2005
Location: Alexandria, VA
Status: Offline
Points: 19809
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2010 at 16:17
Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

Quote Could Rush be considered influential as being one of the first hard progressive rock bands?


Yup, definitely one of the first. You could certainly hear their influence in Iron Maiden, early Def Leppard, Queensryche, Dream Theater, Tiles, and Muse.




Seconded. I remember hearing Rush all over the place when I first listened to the whole Images and Words album
Back to Top
Juiceboxbiotch View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie


Joined: January 12 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 50
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2010 at 17:17
Question for the thread originator:
 
Why wouldn't you choose a Prog band that was clearly more influential?  Yes, for example...  Being one of the first prog bands...and certainly the first to achieve broad success.
 
Rush is a great band, and always has been, but as others here have said...they are more influenced than influential.
Back to Top
Johnnytuba View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 02 2009
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 377
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2010 at 17:23
During the writing of hemispheres, Peart was reading a book called "Powers of Mind" by Adam Smith.  The bulk of the song Hemispheres, along with the writings of Ayn Rand, are influenced strongly by this book.  Its a tough read, but if you read the book and read the lyrics, you will have more than a few a-ha moments.
"The things that we're concealing, will never let us grow.
Time will do its healing, you've got to let it go.
Back to Top
Tanstaafl View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie


Joined: January 11 2010
Location: Maine
Status: Offline
Points: 5
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2010 at 18:43
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

I can't really add much more to the points made here about Rush's influence on hard rock. I love the band, but always felt that they were more influenced by (certainly) Led Zeppelin and other bands in their early work. My feeling is they became more influential on the wider rock world when they began to experiment a bit more in the 1980's.

In terms of influence, Heinlein, of course, was far more so. As a previous poster said, he revolutionised sciemce fiction literature, appalled much of middle class America with some of his works, and remained a hugely controversial figure, to say the least.

My advice, for what it's worth, would be to concentrate on just the one subject, and make that Heinlein.

I can't, the project's goal is to compare an author and an artist (musician, painter, etc.)

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by Tanstaafl Tanstaafl wrote:

I certainly agree that Rush was greatly influenced by hard rock. I have heard that Rush could be considered a combination of Yes and Led Zeppelin, which sounds pretty accurate. What I mean when I say they influenced hard rock, was by them being one of the first "progressive hard rock" bands. I'm not sure about this though. While Yes wasn't metal, there music certainly wasn't very light and King Crimson had some pretty hard stuff. Could Rush be considered influential as being one of the first hard progressive rock bands?

a definite "no" to that. there had been hard progressive bands long before Rush. just listen to High Tide's first album "Sea Shanties" from 1969 or Guru Guru's "Hinten" from 1970. and that's just two examples. Wallenstein is another example

See, this is exactly why I asked this question on a progressive rock forum. I know little about the genre at this point so I need to make sure I don't start my paper with the wrong ideas.

Originally posted by Juiceboxbiotch Juiceboxbiotch wrote:

Question for the thread originator:
 
Why wouldn't you choose a Prog band that was clearly more influential?  Yes, for example...  Being one of the first prog bands...and certainly the first to achieve broad success.
 
Rush is a great band, and always has been, but as others here have said...they are more influenced than influential.

I chose Rush mostly because it's my favorite band. I also chose them because Rush and Heinlein did do some similar things to their genre. They both added politics, philosophy, and meaning to their work, all though Heinlein did this much more. Like I said, I'm open to other bands. Is there a band that also incorporated philosophy, politics, etc. into their music that was more influential than Rush? Also, Rush has some sci fi songs which help a bit.

Back to Top
Alberto Muñoz View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3565
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2010 at 20:00
Also i would like to add to the discussion that the musical ideas found on the Fountain of Lamneth and The Necromancer are very good, i like the dark mystical touch that Geddy and co. put in that record (Carres of Steel) is still unsurpassed by later records.
 
The only album that approach that atmosphere is Fly By Night.


Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.01
Copyright ©2001-2014 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.