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Topic ClosedMagma´s ideology controversy. Read this!

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moebius View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Magma´s ideology controversy. Read this!
    Posted: January 18 2010 at 09:17
Please be patient and check the following links. I´ve founded this in a great blog about zeuhl, looking for legal downloads of magma bootlegs. My intention is just to make this information available to magma fans...

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whydontyoueatcarrots View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 09:58
I certainly hope there isn't some anti-semetic message to Magma's music, but to tell you the truth, I wouldn't stop listening to them.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 10:00
No sign of a rebuttal from the Magma camp ?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 10:00
This smells like some huge bullsh*t. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 10:07
Vander's affinity for excentric stuff is well documented (including other people around him, like Daevid Allen, speaking of his fascination about anything Nazi), but, like others have said, I doubt that the Nazi message has permeated in in any ways the music and the ideology of Magma.

Edited by harmonium.ro - January 18 2010 at 10:08
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 10:38
While I don't think that Vander was really a Nazi, but if this is true, I probably will lose a lot of respect for Magma.  How could one think such a thing?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 10:41
Completely offtopic, César, don't you think your banana sig pic has lived its life and can now be replaced? Big smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 10:59
There's a very long and drawn out debate on this on the progressiveears site.You might have to go back a few pages to find it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 11:02
The saddest part is that there is NO answers from Magma members rejecting and denying whats been said before.
BTW thank you Moebius for your presentation of the facts.

This is sad.
my band : http://lgab.tk
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 11:24
I read it with interrest, but some of the accusations are quite ridiculous. take for example this:
In MDK, "Fuhl mehn Fuhl ehndoh litaah" actually means "für mein Führer Adolf Hitler".
that is not even correct German (correct would be "für meinen Führer Adolf Hitler". the adjective "mein" becomes "meinen" in the accusative case)


Edited by BaldJean - January 18 2010 at 11:25


A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 11:26
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

I read it with interrest, but some of the accusations are quite ridiculous. take for example this:
In MDK, "Fuhl mehn Fuhl ehndoh litaah" actually means "für mein Führer Adolf Hitler".
that is not even correct German (correct would be "für meinen Führer Adolf Hitler")

To be fair, no one said it was supposed to be German...I mean it obviously isn't....if it was then the the translation would be obvious .
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 11:30
Let me make it absolutely clear that I abhor racism and anti-semitism in all its forms. And I hope you do too.

Indeed, I find it almost impossible to enjoy HUNKY DORY (by David Bowie, one of my favourite rock artists) because of Bowie's unwise flirtation with Heinrich Himmler and the concept of "the Superman" (= Uebermensch).

But apart from certain things Christian Vander may have said in interviews and in private (and you know how artists enjoy shocking people), are there any obvious traces of Nazi-worship in Magma's music?

If there are NOT, I think there's a case to be made for (a) enjoying Magma just as before and (b) ignoring Vander's despicable views. You see, I feel tempted to approach Vander in the way Daniel Barenboim (a well-known Argentina-born Jewish conductor) approaches Richard Wagner.

Wagner was a notorious anti-semite, and in his case there can be absolutely no doubt: he actually published anti-semitic literature. But Barenboim believes (as I do) that most of Wagner's operas can be enjoyed in spite of this. Barenboim even took some of Wagner's music to be performed in Israel.

Obviously, not all music-lovers will forgive Wagner as readily for his political views as that. But you could if you wanted to.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 11:32
Originally posted by d.o.k d.o.k wrote:

The saddest part is that there is NO answers from Magma members rejecting and denying whats been said before.
BTW thank you Moebius for your presentation of the facts.

This is sad.

Magma has denied this. See the opening post here and the links 

http://kohntarkosz.blogspot.com/2009/11/magma-speaks.html

http://kohntarkosz.blogspot.com/2009/11/angry-female-kobaian-member-of-magma.html

http://kohntarkosz.blogspot.com/2009/11/another-comment-from-member-of-magma.html

That is three rebuttals.

I am not expressing any views here btw. 

But I have yet to see anyone here condemning the companies which actually carried out Holocaust. That include one company which has made it possible for us to discuss Magma's alleged sins in PA and for the Nazis to murder 6 millions Jews (or 7.5 millions which is the most recent figure).  




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 11:35
To reinforce what Fuxi just wrote, I'd like to bring up the case of one of my favourite writers - HP Lovecraft. He was openly racist (and a lot of his work, as well as his letters, support this fact), and for a time he was a keen admirer of Hitler. Knowing this, I still manage to enjoy reading Lovecraft's stories, though obviously the more racist passages make me cringe. It's not easy, especially for someone like me who has always been very strongly opposed to that kind of ideology. However, I also believe that art, in many ways, transcends the miseries of human nature.

Edited by Raff - January 18 2010 at 11:38
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BaldJean View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 11:38
hey, wait a minute. what's gone itno you all? some people are actually behaving as if there was some substance to these accusations


A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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d.o.k View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 11:42
Originally posted by toroddfuglesteg toroddfuglesteg wrote:

Magma has denied this. See the opening post here and the links 

http://kohntarkosz.blogspot.com/2009/11/magma-speaks.html

http://kohntarkosz.blogspot.com/2009/11/angry-female-kobaian-member-of-magma.html

http://kohntarkosz.blogspot.com/2009/11/another-comment-from-member-of-magma.html

That is three rebuttals



This is exactly it. There is NO denying. These 3 answers never say things clearly. they prefer saying that Magma is defending an ecological earth, and fights extremist capitalism.... instead of getting precisely to the points and responding to them.
my band : http://lgab.tk
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 11:45
Originally posted by toroddfuglesteg toroddfuglesteg wrote:

Magma has denied this. See the opening post here and the links 

http://kohntarkosz.blogspot.com/2009/11/magma-speaks.html

http://kohntarkosz.blogspot.com/2009/11/angry-female-kobaian-member-of-magma.html

http://kohntarkosz.blogspot.com/2009/11/another-comment-from-member-of-magma.html

That is three rebuttals.

I am not expressing any views here btw. 

But I have yet to see anyone here condemning the companies which actually carried out Holocaust. That include one company which has made it possible for us to discuss Magma's alleged sins in PA and for the Nazis to murder 6 millions Jews (or 7.5 millions which is the most recent figure).  


Weird... none of those links are working for me.  I would dearly love to read those rebuttals though - have they been posted elsewhere?

My own feeling on this issue is that it's pretty clear Vander's a strange guy - too strange to be overtly racist in any kind of meaningful/dangerous sense. The interviews I've read with him all seem to be peppered with spiritual musings which are borderline incomprehensible; a fusion of so many different ideaologies. To call Vander a Nazi would be a gross simplification.

However, I am fully prepared to believe that Vander has some kind of fascination with Nazism or fascism. But, just as his spiritual views are complex and impenetrable, I imagine the same would be the case with his political views.

In short, I love Magma's music and mere grisly speculations are not enough to change that.

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toroddfuglesteg View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 11:45

Sorry, d.o.k.  

I was very much mistaken. 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 11:48
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

hey, wait a minute. what's gone itno you all? some people are actually behaving as if there was some substance to these accusations


I don't believe that's the case at all, it's just that the (published) responses to date from those currently purporting to be within Magma do not contain an unequivocal denial.
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Alberto Muñoz View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 11:54
That news are quite old, i know that since 1989




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