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seventhsojourn View Drop Down
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Points: 4006 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: The priests abuse scandal...
    Posted: April 27 2010 at 14:55
Seems to me that some people are keen for this thread to be killed... see PA's basic rules!   
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Points: 16715 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2010 at 13:13
Originally posted by ReaganwillshottyLibs ReaganwillshottyLibs wrote:

Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

I'm honestly not sure how many acts of true compassion without strings attached the Church could do to balance the scales of just violating the trust of just one child under their care. I'm also drawing a blank right now of one single act that is worse than having a child trust you and your institution not only as a physical guiding force but as something in charge of your eternal soul, which can use that as leverage against the child, and then conning the child into sexual acts. Outright murder doesn't even come close to the evil of that act.

You think sexual acts with children is worse then murder? lol
From a legal standpoint, no. To answer Marty's profane question, I think it's pretty obvious that it's better to be alive and raped than dead, and I think victims would find such an attitude offensive. But, from the perspective of the Church, if by the act of rape that person caused one person to go to Hell, then it would have been better to have just murdered him.
Originally posted by Tuzvihar Tuzvihar wrote:

BTW, did you know that Vatican has the lowest age of consent in Europe? 12!! Shocked

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe
Yeah, I don't know why they haven't gotten around to changing that...


Edited by Henry Plainview - April 27 2010 at 13:16
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Points: 13489 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2010 at 13:11
BTW, did you know that Vatican has the lowest age of consent in Europe? 12!! Shocked

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe
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Points: 6898 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2010 at 09:49
Originally posted by Marty McFly Marty McFly wrote:

Wow! Marty found a way around the F word Clap!

Someone cynic enough could ask (when deciding if murder is worse than rape) if ...........

living with it is worse than being dead. Obviously you are dead when someone murders you, but when you are raped, you have to live with it.


What's worse ? It's fuc_king hard question to answer, so I'll just raise it, not answer it. I don't dare.
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Points: 6898 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2010 at 09:48
We should just nuke the Vatican and then when all the fallout dissapates we could replace it with a progrock shrine and have real religion with Richard Dawkins as our GOD!
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Points: 4006 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2010 at 16:36
Ok, I have already posted numerous messages condemning those clerical beasts that are beyond evil. I have also criticised The Church for the attempted cover-ups. So, The Church cannot be defended on the abuse scandal... but the scatter guns are out.
 
Hot on the heels of the Dawkins and Hitchens affair, I just heard on the BBC News that the UK Foreign Office has been forced to apologise to The Vatican. Apparently there were suggestions that during The Pope's forthcoming visit to the UK he could open an abortion clinic, bless a gaye marriage, and launch a brand of ''Benedict'' condoms.
 
Now, there may be members here that think this is all very funny... I have no problem with that. However I do have a problem with the Foreign Office. This is another nice example of the kind of people that are running the UK... these suggestions were seemingly raised at a brainstorming session. I wonder what other comments were made that we're not being told about... this reeks of bigotry.
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Points: 3968 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2010 at 13:43

Someone cynic enough could ask (when deciding if murder is worse than rape) if ...........

living with it is worse than being dead. Obviously you are dead when someone murders you, but when you are raped, you have to live with it.


What's worse ? It's fuc_king hard question to answer, so I'll just raise it, not answer it. I don't dare.
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Points: 28057 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2010 at 11:53
Originally posted by ReaganwillshottyLibs ReaganwillshottyLibs wrote:

Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

I'm honestly not sure how many acts of true compassion without strings attached the Church could do to balance the scales of just violating the trust of just one child under their care. I'm also drawing a blank right now of one single act that is worse than having a child trust you and your institution not only as a physical guiding force but as something in charge of your eternal soul, which can use that as leverage against the child, and then conning the child into sexual acts. Outright murder doesn't even come close to the evil of that act.

You think sexual acts with children is worse then murder? lol


You missed the point.

Is murder worse than rape? Yes.

Is murder worse than pedophilia. Maybe.

Is murder worse than conning a child to have sex with you because you can easily prey on his fears that if he strays from you he will be tormented for eternity? Sweet Jesus Hell yes.

You can lament the taking of someone's life, but this act here should make your jaw drop to the f**king floor by how evil it is.
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2010 at 11:48
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Originally posted by ReaganwillshottyLibs ReaganwillshottyLibs wrote:

Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

I'm honestly not sure how many acts of true compassion without strings attached the Church could do to balance the scales of just violating the trust of just one child under their care. I'm also drawing a blank right now of one single act that is worse than having a child trust you and your institution not only as a physical guiding force but as something in charge of your eternal soul, which can use that as leverage against the child, and then conning the child into sexual acts. Outright murder doesn't even come close to the evil of that act.

You think sexual acts with children is worse then murder? lol
Pretty much.....far worse
 
I honestly don't know which is worse, raping is so repulsive for me that I can't imagine something worst.
 
It's so repulsive that even the criminals consider child raping horrendous, when I made my practice of Penal law in a prison, child rapists had to be appart of the rest of the prisoners, because they were raped, harrassed and even murdered on daily bases.
 
But there's a way toi know...Ask a father of a raped child, if he would rather had his son killed....That will tell you what's worst, despite our natural repulsion for pedophilia.
 
Iván.


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - April 24 2010 at 19:39
            
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Points: 29625 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2010 at 08:28
I have a hard time ranking bad things like that.  When someone is murdered that person doesn't go on killing other people.  The molested do sometimes turn into molesters.  A sick gift that keeps on giving.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 3 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2010 at 04:42
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Originally posted by ReaganwillshottyLibs ReaganwillshottyLibs wrote:

Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

I'm honestly not sure how many acts of true compassion without strings attached the Church could do to balance the scales of just violating the trust of just one child under their care. I'm also drawing a blank right now of one single act that is worse than having a child trust you and your institution not only as a physical guiding force but as something in charge of your eternal soul, which can use that as leverage against the child, and then conning the child into sexual acts. Outright murder doesn't even come close to the evil of that act.

You think sexual acts with children is worse then murder? lol
Pretty much.....far worse

Only by someone whose morally challenged. 
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Points: 7028 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2010 at 04:39
Originally posted by ReaganwillshottyLibs ReaganwillshottyLibs wrote:

Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

I'm honestly not sure how many acts of true compassion without strings attached the Church could do to balance the scales of just violating the trust of just one child under their care. I'm also drawing a blank right now of one single act that is worse than having a child trust you and your institution not only as a physical guiding force but as something in charge of your eternal soul, which can use that as leverage against the child, and then conning the child into sexual acts. Outright murder doesn't even come close to the evil of that act.

You think sexual acts with children is worse then murder? lol
Pretty much.....far worse
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Points: 3 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2010 at 03:44
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

I'm honestly not sure how many acts of true compassion without strings attached the Church could do to balance the scales of just violating the trust of just one child under their care. I'm also drawing a blank right now of one single act that is worse than having a child trust you and your institution not only as a physical guiding force but as something in charge of your eternal soul, which can use that as leverage against the child, and then conning the child into sexual acts. Outright murder doesn't even come close to the evil of that act.

You think sexual acts with children is worse then murder? lol
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Points: 5148 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2010 at 21:58
Originally posted by who-knows-it's-prog who-knows-it's-prog wrote:

Remember this pope was in the Nazi party...so denial should come easily to him.
You had to be a part of Hitler's Youth if you were a boy at that time.  Please don't start this.
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Points: 23 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2010 at 20:01
This whole thing has nothing to do with the bible or any other nonsensical religious nonsense, it's all about abusers in the Roman catholic church who should know better, these people are put in a position of trust, and children should be free from paedophiles. Hang them high, and show to the world we will not accept paedophilia or any other abuse.
Remember this pope was in the Nazi party...so denial should come easily to him.


Edited by who-knows-it's-prog - April 30 2010 at 18:06
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Points: 28057 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2010 at 10:10
I'm honestly not sure how many acts of true compassion without strings attached the Church could do to balance the scales of just violating the trust of just one child under their care. I'm also drawing a blank right now of one single act that is worse than having a child trust you and your institution not only as a physical guiding force but as something in charge of your eternal soul, which can use that as leverage against the child, and then conning the child into sexual acts. Outright murder doesn't even come close to the evil of that act.
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Points: 32476 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2010 at 08:00
Originally posted by someone_else someone_else wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by someone_else someone_else wrote:

The Scriptures speak of hell as well, and no one in the Scriptures speaks more about hell than Jesus. No matter what tradition makes of it:
 
And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. (Matt. 5:29)
 
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? (Matt. 23:33)
 
 
 


Right.  And when Jesus uses that word, did he mean a place of eternal, conscious torture and physical agony?

I submit that he did not.
 
 
 
Apparently not, according to these verses (in English):
 
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:14,15)
 
(In Dutch the word for 'hell' here differs from the word used in the Gospel according to Matthew).


As well it should, because they are two different words in the Greek as well (gehenna in Matthew and hades in Revelation).
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Points: 2720 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2010 at 07:53
At this point I'll probably go along with Saint Ian's immortal line: 'It always causes a fight, man' and bow out.
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Points: 23994 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2010 at 07:42
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by someone_else someone_else wrote:

The Scriptures speak of hell as well, and no one in the Scriptures speaks more about hell than Jesus. No matter what tradition makes of it:
 
And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. (Matt. 5:29)
 
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? (Matt. 23:33)
 
 
 


Right.  And when Jesus uses that word, did he mean a place of eternal, conscious torture and physical agony?

I submit that he did not.
 
 
 
Apparently not, according to these verses (in English):
 
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:14,15)
 
(In Dutch the word for 'hell' here differs from the word used in the Gospel according to Matthew).
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Points: 32476 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2010 at 07:37
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

So what is he supposed to mean then?
I find those lines quite clear.
I mean, he probably didn't mean "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell which is quite a comfy place where you'll be given a good talking to and then psychiatrists will evaluate whether you can rejoin society" 


Do you honestly believe the only interpretation is the Westernized traditional one?


Edited by Epignosis - April 22 2010 at 07:38
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