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carlmarx38
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Joined: February 01 2010
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Topic: Timeline of progressive rock Posted: April 15 2010 at 18:18 |
Here's my current rough draft of my Timeline of Progressive Rock. If I were banished to a Desert Island, and could only take a hundred or so titles, this is what I would listen to. Or if it were 1971 again, these are the albums I would buy (if only I knew then what I know now !)
1969
YES (first album) IN THE COURT OF THE CRIMSON KING STAND UP (Jethro Tull) UMMAGUMMA 1970
MAY BENEFIT (Jethro Tull) JUN JUL TIME AND A WORD AUG SEP OCT TRESPASS NOV EMERSON, LAKE AND PALMER (1st album) DEC
1971
JAN FEB MAR THE YES ALBUM (# 7 UK) APR AQUALUNG (#7 US / #4 UK) MAY IN THE LAND OF GREY AND PINK (Caravan) JUN TARKUS (#9 US / #1 UK) (FIRST PROG ALBUM TO GO #1 ?) JUL AUG ACQUIRING THE TASTE (Gentle Giant) SEP OCT PAWN HEARTS (van der graaf generator) MOVING WAVES (Focus) NOV NURSERY CRYME (#39 UK) PICTURES AT AN EXHIBITION (#10 US / #2 UK) DEC THE INNER MOUNTING FLAME (Mahishnu Orchestra) MEDDLE
1972 (the "golden age" of prog begins !)
JAN FRAGILE (#7 UK / #4 US) FEB STORIA DI UN MINUTO (PFM) MAR BANCO DEL MUTUO SOCCORSO (these dates for the italians are just "estimates" !) APR THICK AS A BRICK (#1 US / #5 UK.......FIRST PROG ALBUM TO HIT #1 IN US) MAY JUN SPACE SHANTY (Khan, featuring Steve Hillage) UOMO DI PEZZA (Le Orme) JUL LIVING IN THE PAST (#3 US / #8 UK) TRILOGY (#5 US / #2 UK) AUG SEP CLOSE TO THE EDGE (#3 US / #4 UK) PER UN AMICO (PFM) OCT FOXTROT (#12 UK) NOV DARWIN ! (Banco del Mutuo Soccorso) DEC OCTOPUS (Gentle Giant) FOCUS 3 _____________________________________________________________________________
that's it for now.....i've completed this timeline up to 1975. will stop here, though to get feedback. .......this to me is close to the "epicenter" of classic prog. Especially Sep/OCT '72 when both CLOSE TO THE EDGE and FOXTROT were released within a month of each other !
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Lodij van der Graaf
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Posted: April 15 2010 at 19:22 |
I would start from 1967, so the likes of the Nice, Procol Harum, and a couple of others could be on the list..
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Grace is a name, like Chastity, like Lucifer, like mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Queen By-Tor
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Posted: April 15 2010 at 19:35 |
I don't understand this project. Normally desert islands don't allow "only 100 or so". It's easy to put albums in chronological order, it's a lot tougher to name the importance of albums based on when they were released and the events that made them important to the scene.
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friso
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Joined: October 24 2007
Location: Netherlands
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Points: 2505
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Posted: April 16 2010 at 03:04 |
What about Soft Machine, the VdGG debut, the Magma debut, the Gentle Giant debut, etc..?
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AtomicCrimsonRush
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Posted: April 16 2010 at 09:41 |
Nice list but so many definitive albums are missing - i have spent a long time researching and making prog polls on each of the prog years here, and it takes some effort to come up with 15 or 10 albums per year but it is possible.
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carlmarx38
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Joined: February 01 2010
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Points: 60
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Posted: April 16 2010 at 11:11 |
What about Soft Machine, the VdGG debut, the Magma debut, the Gentle Giant debut, etc ?
If you think those are all essential, I'll put them in ! My current Timeline doesn't have any
Van Der Graaf albums until PAWN HEARTS, but I know there are a lot of VdGG fans on
here, so I should probably include more. As for the others you mentioned, I have
SOFT MACHINE ""Third", and I think the first Magma album I have listed is
"Mekanik Destructiw Kommandoh". You really think Gentle Giant's debut is essential
to the early lineage ?
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carlmarx38
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Joined: February 01 2010
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Posted: April 16 2010 at 11:15 |
Nice list but so many definitive albums are missing - i have spent a long time researching and making prog polls on each of the prog years here, and it takes some effort to come up with 15 or 10 albums per year but it is possible.
Do you agree with the above post to include Magma (debut), Soft Machine (debut),
and VdGG ? (btw, most of my release dates are from "Strawberry Brick's Guide to
Progressive Rock", I'm going on faith that they are mostly accurate)
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carlmarx38
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Joined: February 01 2010
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Posted: April 16 2010 at 11:28 |
I don't understand this project. Normally desert islands don't allow "only 100 or so". It's easy to put albums in chronological order, it's a lot tougher to name the importance of albums based on when they were released and the events that made them important to the scene.
........good point......and the "events that made them important to the scene" had to do
with popularity and visibility in the public's eye. The debut albums by Magma, Soft Machine,
Gentle Giant, and VdGG had little or no visibility at the time of their release (especially
in the States), which is probably why I didn't include them. I think this timeline is meant
to be somewhat of a compromise between a History Project (focusing on historical
relevance at the time), and a critical appraisal of the essential albums to the develop-
ment of the genre. The debuts by Magma and Soft Machine are essential in retrospect,
but from a historical perspective of how prog evolved they aren't so important, because
hardly anyone knew of them at the time they were released.
Thanks for the feedback, though. The main question, is whether people are
interested in this thing (regardless of which albums are included) ? I thought
it would be nice to have something like this on the PROG MUSIC GUIDES link,
for new listeners, but I won't pursue it if people think it's a dumb idea.
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AtomicCrimsonRush
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Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Australia
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Posted: April 16 2010 at 11:32 |
carlmarx38 wrote:
Nice list but so many definitive albums are missing - i have spent a long time researching and making prog polls on each of the prog years here, and it takes some effort to come up with 15 or 10 albums per year but it is possible.
Do you agree with the above post to include Magma (debut), Soft Machine (debut),
and VdGG ? (btw, most of my release dates are from "Strawberry Brick's Guide to
Progressive Rock", I'm going on faith that they are mostly accurate) |
Yeah include those definitive albums on your list. Check the polls too if you need help as I used Strawberry Guide too, but the PA have a better guide also. I would include the debut albums of all the eclectic bands that began the genre.
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fuxi
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2459
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Posted: April 16 2010 at 12:35 |
carlmarx38 wrote:
What about Soft Machine, the VdGG debut, the Magma debut, the Gentle Giant debut, etc ?
If you think those are all essential, I'll put them in ! My current Timeline doesn't have any
Van Der Graaf albums until PAWN HEARTS, but I know there are a lot of VdGG fans on
here, so I should probably include more. As for the others you mentioned, I have
SOFT MACHINE ""Third", and I think the first Magma album I have listed is
"Mekanik Destructiw Kommandoh". You really think Gentle Giant's debut is essential
to the early lineage ? | If there's no limit, I'd call the first THREE Soft Machine albums essential. If I could have only one, I'd go for VOLUME TWO. In my view, "Rivmic Melodies", the suite on its original A-side, is the best thing the band ever did, together with "Moon in June" and the "Love Makes Sweet Music"/"Feelin Reelin Squeelin" single.
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carlmarx38
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Joined: February 01 2010
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Points: 60
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Posted: April 16 2010 at 12:47 |
Do you agree with the above post to include Magma (debut), Soft Machine (debut),
and VdGG ?
Yeah include those definitive albums on your list. Check the polls too if you need help as I used Strawberry Guide too, but the PA have a better guide also. I would include the debut albums of all the eclectic bands that began the genre. check out my other blog entitled "Genesis of prog Rock : when did it all begin ?" In which I am exploring the myth of whether "Court of the Crimson King" was the first "true" prog album. I made a short list of albums there : PROCOL HARUM, PIPER AT THE GATES OF DAWN, DAYS OF FUTURE PASSED, early Zappa/ Mothers, CARAVAN, and SOFT MACHINE. (This Timeline thing is sort of connected to that blog, as I wrote both of them at the same time, more or less ). Let me know if you can help with the historical perspective, as I would really like to develop this idea further, (either on or off the Forum pages). I'm American, and don't have much sense of what it was like for prog fans who were there at the time (1969-71). How many early prog fans knew about the Canturberry scene when Caravan/ Soft Machine first started ? Did Magma, Gentle Giant, etc., have any visibility when their debuts first came out ? (they sure weren't on the charts, as far as I know).
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friso
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Joined: October 24 2007
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 2505
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Posted: April 17 2010 at 12:33 |
I do understand their influence on the progressive scene might be have been little in 1970, but the influence of the debut of Gentle Giant, Magma and some others have grown over the year perhaps. Futhermore good prog doesn't have to be influential to be essential IMHO.
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Calculate900
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Joined: June 04 2009
Location: USA
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Points: 87
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Posted: April 17 2010 at 22:25 |
Excuse me, but wasn't Sgt. Pepper one of the first progressive albums? Surely it should get an honorable mention.
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himtroy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 20 2009
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Points: 1601
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Posted: April 17 2010 at 22:48 |
Not more of this Sgt Pepper is prog rock stuff. Just because it's a concept album? Piper at the Gates of Dawn was recorded on the same dates as Sgt Pepper and is at least 10 times as progressive.
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ghost_of_morphy
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Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2755
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Posted: April 18 2010 at 11:28 |
himtroy wrote:
Not more of this Sgt Pepper is prog rock stuff. Just because it's a concept album? Piper at the Gates of Dawn was recorded on the same dates as Sgt Pepper and is at least 10 times as progressive. |
Piper is pure psychedelic. Prog elements don't show up until Saucer.
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Zombywoof
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 26 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1217
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Posted: April 18 2010 at 20:12 |
How about Frank Zappa's Freak Out! from '66. It was the first concept album in rock music and influenced the Beatles to make Sgt Pepper!
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Continue the prog discussion here: http://zombyprog.proboards.com/index.cgi ...
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: April 18 2010 at 20:27 |
ghost_of_morphy wrote:
himtroy wrote:
Not more of this Sgt Pepper is prog rock stuff. Just because it's a concept album? Piper at the Gates of Dawn was recorded on the same dates as Sgt Pepper and is at least 10 times as progressive. |
Piper is pure psychedelic. Prog elements don't show up until Saucer. |
I disagree, and these are the points:
"At the time The Piper at the Gates of Dawn was originally released in 1967, it was one among many aurally ripped, acid-tripped albums including Jimi Hendrix's Are You Experienced, Cream's Disraeli Gears, Jefferson Airplane's After Bathing at Baxter's, and, of course, Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, which the Beatles were recording down the hall from Pink Floyd at Abbey Road. But as those albums have gracefully slipped into the mainstream of our music consciousness, Piper, along with The Velvet Underground and Nico, still sounds like it broke through from another dimension. Pink Floyd were employing musique concrete techniques, inventing glissando guitar, and exploring areas of trance with tunes like "Interstellar Overdrive," actually two takes of an extended rave-up laid on top of each other. Mixing sci-fi imagery with swinging London metaphors and pastoral fantasies (the title is lifted from The Wind in the Willows), Pink Floyd's music was even more dappled, swirled, and surreal than the light shows that accompanied their performances. Piper represented Syd Barrett's vision as the sole composer of all but three songs. He was yet to have his acid-induced meltdowns, and all things were possible and beautiful. Barrett mixed whimsy on "Bike" with cynicism on the wordless but ominous "Pow R. Toc H."; goofy innocence on "The Gnome" and mysticism on "Chapter 24." But there's no doubting the contributions of Richard Wright with his swirling, reverb-drenched organ fugues and jazz ellipses and Roger Waters's earth-rooted bass. Nick Mason's underrated drumming, time-shifting polyrhythms, and colorful flourishes pushed Barrett's elliptical pop even further over the edge, especially on the space-music opus "Astronomy Domine." --John Diliberto
It was not any psychedelic rock album, it was an innovative one thus making it highly influential and even progressive.
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ghost_of_morphy
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Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2755
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Posted: April 19 2010 at 13:06 |
Frankly, most of those are reasons to consider Piper psychedelic. Sorry. Prog elements start showing up on Saucer and get max expresssion on AHM. Even considering that, Floyd's brand of prog is quite different from what most prog bands were doing.
Which isn't to say that Piper isn't a kickass album. It just isn't prog.
Edited by ghost_of_morphy - April 19 2010 at 13:07
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
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Points: 16148
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Posted: April 19 2010 at 19:50 |
Hi,
Ummagumma is not 1969 I don't think.
And this has got to be the weirdest discussion I have ever seen in this board. Also th emost incomplete and off key that I have ever seen.
If I was any of those musicians I would be embarassed to even be associated with this!
Edited by moshkito - April 19 2010 at 19:52
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: April 20 2010 at 17:14 |
ghost_of_morphy wrote:
Frankly, most of those are reasons to consider Piper psychedelic. Sorry. Prog elements start showing up on Saucer and get max expresssion on AHM. Even considering that, Floyd's brand of prog is quite different from what most prog bands were doing.
Which isn't to say that Piper isn't a kickass album. It just isn't prog. |
It's not prog, though it is progressive and innovative thus highly influential for the evolution of rock music to prog rock.
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