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Explorer-eighth View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Univers Zero - Uzed
    Posted: May 11 2010 at 12:37

Someone at my church didn't understand what I meant by music which combines different styles into one instead of conforming to fashions and stereotypes, so I agreed to take some music with me next time for her to listen to whilst there.  I couldn't lend her my CDs because this music is so rarely available and is soon deleted.  I took Univers Zero's Uzed, Magma's Emehntehtt-Re and Thinking Plague's A History of Madness.

Whilst I was there I had a bad feeling that it would provoke a hostile response, so I didn't say anything until this lady specifically asked me to play something.  I tried them with Presage from Univers Zero's Uzed.  They looked horrified.  One old woman said she would annoy me next week by playing Country and Western.  Another one said that it must have been made on a computer because it is repetitive.  For me, Uzed is not at all repetitive; that is one of its great qualities in this age of minimalism.  I'd already shown her the list of the real musicians on the back of the cover.  After about 4 minutes of Presage, I turned it off and tried Emehntehtt-Re which got an equally hostile response.  I only played about 3 minutes of that.  The younger woman who'd asked me to play it didn't comment except to say that it was all mixed up.
 
The older woman who said that it must have been made on a computer was referring to someone she knows who makes up his own music on his computer at home.  I've heard it and that is repetitive and with nothing good about it.  That's what made the comment about Presage so insulting.  What do you think?
The music I enjoy is complex; varied; deep and well played.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2010 at 12:51
Now when these women say "computers," do they mean "win machines?"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2010 at 12:54
Great albums, but I think such music requires some "brain tuning" -- need experience to be able to appreciate it and decipher it.  Those albums would not even be easy for a great many who are attuned to standard Prog. "Presage" does have repetitiveness, but if one really knows the music then one can hear more variation (and how it builds and changes).  E-Re is pretty repetitive.  I love those kinds of repetitiveness, and sometimes the variations are quite subtle.

If she's unfamiliar with such music, or doesn't know a lot about music, then I wouldn't find it insulting.  That music would be difficult for many.


Edited by Logan - May 11 2010 at 12:55
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2010 at 13:02
E-Re isn't that repetitive.

Anyhow, just ignore them.

Of course, you could always try some Stravinsky (primarily Les Noces) or Orff (Carmina Burana) to ease them into Magma.

Or perhaps play them Magma's debut or even Univers Zéro's debut.

UZ are very much like a chamber music ensemble, so she shouldn't really find it too repetitive.

But also be careful playing it at a church group.  I find some religious people don't appreciate "dark" or "sinful" music.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2010 at 13:11
Good story. Imagine what they would say if you tried something like,... say, Faust's first album (if first three minutes of E-Re seemed 'mixed up' rather than musical brilliancy). It's quite typical reaction, and for the 'repetitive' aspect too: it's easy to perceive music as uniform in its constant variations.
I was listening to K.A and got an immediate comment, why are they repeating the same again and again. But a couple of standard types of pop song is not only perfect music but not repetitive at all.
Originally posted by Logan

E-Re is pretty repetitive.
Part II mostly is, the rest ain't, at all.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2010 at 13:15
Originally posted by Psychedelist

Good story. Imagine what they would say if you tried something like,... say, Faust's first album (if first three minutes of E-Re seemed 'mixed up' rather than musical brilliancy). It's quite typical reaction, and for the 'repetitive' aspect too: it's easy to perceive music as uniform in its constant variations.
I was listening to K.A and got an immediate comment, why are they repeating the same again and again. But a couple of standard types of pop song is not only perfect music but not repetitive at all.
Originally posted by Logan

E-Re is pretty repetitive.
Part II mostly is, the rest ain't, at all.


Nonsense, "Part III" has lots of repetition.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2010 at 13:30

^ Isn't half of E-Re just repetition of earlier Magma tunes to start with?
Just teasing... Smile

On topic, you can't introduce any type of music to people that have no reference frame to place the music in.
Approach it bit by bit. Start with a bit of modern classical music and prog that is easier on the ears such as Pink Floyd's DSOTM.
Taling about religious music, I once brought Sabbath's 'After Forver' to the religion class, claiming it had religious lyrics. They didn't like it much and were very doubtful about the religious sincerity of Ozzy. LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2010 at 13:34
Originally posted by Logan


Nonsense, "Part III" has lots of repetition.
It may have, but the more it goes, the less repetitive it gets. It has lots of unique moments as well, at the end mostly, that balances the whole part.
While I believe everyone can appreciate some of the prog classics, those particular albums were very difficult for people who aren't familar with such music, indeed.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2010 at 14:44
Originally posted by Explorer-eighth

Someone at my church didn't understand what I meant by music which combines different styles into one instead of conforming to fashions and stereotypes, so I agreed to take some music with me next time for her to listen to whilst there.  I couldn't lend her my CDs because this music is so rarely available and is soon deleted.  I took Univers Zero's Uzed, Magma's Emehntehtt-Re and Thinking Plague's A History of Madness.

Whilst I was there I had a bad feeling that it would provoke a hostile response, so I didn't say anything until this lady specifically asked me to play something.  I tried them with Presage from Univers Zero's Uzed.  They looked horrified.  One old woman said she would annoy me next week by playing Country and Western.  Another one said that it must have been made on a computer because it is repetitive.  For me, Uzed is not at all repetitive; that is one of its great qualities in this age of minimalism.  I'd already shown her the list of the real musicians on the back of the cover.  After about 4 minutes of Presage, I turned it off and tried Emehntehtt-Re which got an equally hostile response.  I only played about 3 minutes of that.  The younger woman who'd asked me to play it didn't comment except to say that it was all mixed up.
 
The older woman who said that it must have been made on a computer was referring to someone she knows who makes up his own music on his computer at home.  I've heard it and that is repetitive and with nothing good about it.  That's what made the comment about Presage so insulting.  What do you think?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2010 at 14:49
Originally posted by Explorer-eighth

Someone at my church didn't understand what I meant by music which combines different styles into one instead of conforming to fashions and stereotypes, so I agreed to take some music with me next time for her to listen to whilst there.  I couldn't lend her my CDs because this music is so rarely available and is soon deleted.  I took Univers Zero's Uzed, Magma's Emehntehtt-Re and Thinking Plague's A History of Madness.

Whilst I was there I had a bad feeling that it would provoke a hostile response, so I didn't say anything until this lady specifically asked me to play something.  I tried them with Presage from Univers Zero's Uzed.  They looked horrified.  One old woman said she would annoy me next week by playing Country and Western.  Another one said that it must have been made on a computer because it is repetitive.  For me, Uzed is not at all repetitive; that is one of its great qualities in this age of minimalism.  I'd already shown her the list of the real musicians on the back of the cover.  After about 4 minutes of Presage, I turned it off and tried Emehntehtt-Re which got an equally hostile response.  I only played about 3 minutes of that.  The younger woman who'd asked me to play it didn't comment except to say that it was all mixed up.
 
The older woman who said that it must have been made on a computer was referring to someone she knows who makes up his own music on his computer at home.  I've heard it and that is repetitive and with nothing good about it.  That's what made the comment about Presage so insulting.  What do you think?
Play Your Christian friends some Current 93. Why not 'Dog's Blood Rising?'. Funny thing David Tibet (founder of Current 93)  seems to be a Christian. The church people will probably throw you out in the gutter after playng this one :)


Edited by Rottenhat - May 11 2010 at 14:53
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2010 at 15:03
Originally posted by Psychedelist

Originally posted by Logan


Nonsense, "Part III" has lots of repetition.
It may have, but the more it goes, the less repetitive it gets. It has lots of unique moments as well, at the end mostly, that balances the whole part.
While I believe everyone can appreciate some of the prog classics, those particular albums were very difficult for people who aren't familiar with such music, indeed.


It does for sure. While there is variation, I could understand complaints that there  is so much thematic repetition in "Part III" that the track gets tedious, but what pay-offs there are!  If it can be rather tedious, it only makes the pay-offs that much better. It's a common complaint with Magma from people that the music is too repetitive.  I like repetition of themes and phrases.  That's a big part of what attracted me to Prog -- the way themes/ phrases/ riffs are repeated and developed into amazing climaxes.  "Part III is a great example of that -- reaches sublime levels (incidentally, perhaps we could replace the word "masterpiece" for ratings with the word "sublime" -- I prefer it), and it has more than one amazing part.


And I was thinking about mentioning the repetition of earlier works too for fun.

Like has been said, I would not have started people with those albums if I didn't know they were already familiar with the modalities.  I like to tailor music to people's tastes as much as possible when exposing them to something quite new -- gateway music since a certain level of familiarity with the style is important.

I don't know what kind of a church it is, but I was brought up Anglican, so was used to a certain kind of church music. My wife was Pentacostal.  I could not stand the music in her church and the terrible, terrible repetition both in the lyrics and spoken phrases added while the band played and in the music itself.  I was used to traditional hymns such as "All Thing Bright and Beautiful" and "Jerusalem".  Of course it's unusual for music to lack repetition -- pop is repetitive, so is classical (though themes tend to be developed as in Prog which borrowed from classical music).

I've introduced my mother to groups in PA, but I would never play her the more rock ones since she does not like rock music (she likes classical particularly).  I played her Aranis and Sheller's Lux Aeterna (which has  a rock band in it) and I avoid the more dissonant works with her (even if they may sound positively consonant to my ears).

If I were to play a UZ album to church-goers, I'd go with Heresie. ;)  Maybe consider Lalo Schifrin's Rock Requiem next time  (and if they like jazz, Heikki Sarmanto's New Hope Jazz Mass.  Comus doesn't go down so well).


Edited by Logan - May 11 2010 at 15:25
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2010 at 18:55
Maybe just stick to Genesis next time LOL

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2010 at 19:27
I don't know, but Uzed is quite accessible by moments. But maybe she didn't get it. Univers Zero (the self-titled album) is the real stuff!
Maybe you could try Étron Fou Leloublan, they're awesome and very catchy! Smile
 
As James suggested, you could put some Stravinsky, Orff or maybe even Shostakovitch and Mahler...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2010 at 23:04
Music based on the usage of tri-tones and you are playing it in church? Tri-tones were forbidden centuries ago by the church. It's nickname became "The Devil's Court" throughout many decades. Univers Zero are tri-tone city. Bob Fripp used them frequently. The people you've played this for would react the very same way if they heard the music of George Crumb, Bella Bartok and many unknown 20th century composers. You must be a real character or innocently don't realize the history on this. It's okay. People in society make way too much of a big deal over things such as this. I play all this stuff on guitar and it does create a chilling or errie atmosphere like inviting Lucifer into your home. One or 2 members of Univers Zero have an interest in H.P. Lovecraft. It's not quite like a cheap contrived flaunted Satanic concept from Ozzy Osborne or others but, it still invokes the left hand path. It was once forbidden to play these tri-tones and maybe the penalty was jail or even execution who knows? That doesn't seem very fair does it? Do a search on the history of tri-tones and if helpful, read up on some of the personal interests of Univers Zero and Art Zoyd. For me, tri-tones have their purpose just as gospel music or commonly known church hymns have their purpose. Seperated by Bishops centuries ago. I wouldn't want to be caught playing tri-tones then, as they would have burned me at the stake like they did with the Gnostics. We proggers have come into being, like the shadows and phantoms of the night.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2010 at 08:45
The theory of the church having anyone incarcerated for indulging in tri-tones during the 18TH century is  considered by many historians to be fanciful. Many great musicians ponder at times over which theory is correct due to their direct bloodstream within music itself. It's a half bent theory with 50 percent from either side. A part of life we must inveitably except. The sound of the tri-tone variations whether it be vocal or instrument has offended the ears of a vast amount of Christian folks and that might be a true fact in the history itself. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2010 at 13:16
Thanks everyone.  These comments are helpful.  Posting my initial message helped me to feel less isolated too.
The music I enjoy is complex; varied; deep and well played.
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