Prog Albums Tournament: Tarkus vs. Lizard

richardh wrote: thehallway wrote: richardh wrote: thehallway wrote: Tarkus: Immense song, sh*t album     The 'song' as you call it makes up half the album. This seems contradictory to me therefore.   One 5-star song + six 1-2 star songs isn't contradictory; even if the former is half of the album, the result is still an inconsistent 3-star mess. In fact, even if the title track lasted the whole album, it would still be just a good song and not a very great album (a bit samey no?)............ You called it 'immense' but wrote off the whole album as 'sh*t'. 3 star is a fair rating but 'sh*t' to me means 1 star for everything.That said I understand your point.

 

richardh wrote: thehallway wrote: Tarkus: Immense song, sh*t album     The 'song' as you call it makes up half the album. This seems contradictory to me therefore.

 

You know, Tarkus just slightly ahead of Lizard...

I guess you are right Greg, that does fit PA's opinion on both, but this website does create some distortions.

ELP sold millions upon millions of albums wile KC struggled through decades to sell 500k copies of their most known and famous album (the debut), on the US, not to mention that ELP is a band that is instantly recognized or remembered as a progressive rock band even outside the prog cicles, something that KC is not.

But you are right in anyway.


Edited by CCVP - September 17 2010 at 14:31

CCVP wrote: thellama73 wrote: CCVP wrote: Are you guys kidding me? Tarkus is one of the apexes of progressive rock wile Lizard is just a forgotten KC album sandwiched between their two big 70's incarnations. Sometimes this website is just . . . . wow. EDIT: well, I can understand that, knowing how so many people just LOVE ELP. They aren't my favorite band either, but credit is payed where credit is due. . . . Lizard is not a forgotten KC album. In fact, it's one of the best albums the band ever released. Tarkus is epic, but the rest of the album is so weak that it really makes for a tough sell. I am not surprised by this poll result at all.   The ammount of reviews say otherwise. . . .   And I do really love Lizard. Tarkus is just far more important and just plaily better. It really amazes me how many people don't like the second part of the album, it is much more experimental and progressive than Lizard. . . .

Anirml wrote: Lizard is completely unique. You don't find any other songs that sound like Indoor games, Cirkus or Happy Family (atleast I haven't found any). For me the long title track is for winter times I wouldn't even mind if it was voted as number one best prog album ever! If you "get into" Lizard you will be amazed . It seems to get better and better with time, for me.

SaltyJon wrote: The thing is, the poll asks for this: "Which one do you prefer?" not "Which one is more important/progressive?" and apparently more people prefer Lizard (like me), whether or not they've reviewed it.  I haven't reviewed either one.

My contribution to CCVP's post: The number of reviews indicate that it's a forgotten album?  Not only is King Crimson such a huge band at PA that I don't think one could call any of the studio albums forgotten, but Lizard has many reviews and a total of 366 ratings with a  score of 4.11.  Maybe my tastes are often obscure enough that I have a very different concept of forgotten or what qualifies as many reviews.

Just to focus on the late 69 through 70's albums, Lizard has more ratings and a higher rating than the subsequent album, as well as the former album, as well as Starless.... And the number of ratings isn't even that far behind what is many people's favourite King Crimson album (including mine), Larks' Tongues in Aspic. I would hardly call any of these forgotten.

4.56 | 917 ratings
In The Court Of The Crimson King 3.73
1969

3.73 | 313 ratings
In The Wake Of Poseidon
1970

4.11 | 366 ratings
Lizard
1970

3.77 | 275 ratings
Islands
1971

4.35 | 426 ratings
Larks' Tongues In Aspic
1973


3.84 | 258 ratings
Starless And Bible Black
1974


4.48 | 567 ratings
Red
1974

Now let's look at Tarkus:

4.04 | 311 ratings
Tarkus
1971

Tarkus has fewer ratings at PA than Lizard as well as a lower "score".  So what's your point? The poll results seem in-line with that.

Tarkus is not plainly better to me, nor is it plainly more progressive (I would say that Tarkus was a considerable progression for ELP from the debut, but I prefer the debut). This poll is about preferences, though, and I can say that Lizard is plainly better for me. I really like it, whereas I don't care for Tarkus.  Even when I liked ELP muchly, Tarkus, on the whole, left me cold. I do prefer King Crimson in general.  And while there are many ELP detractors at PA, it's clear that there are many who love ELP.



Edited by Logan - September 17 2010 at 12:03

CCVP wrote: thellama73 wrote: Lizard is not a forgotten KC album. In fact, it's one of the best albums the band ever released. Tarkus is epic, but the rest of the album is so weak that it really makes for a tough sell. I am not surprised by this poll result at all.   The ammount of reviews say otherwise. . . .   And I do really love Lizard. Tarkus is just far more important and just plaily better. It really amazes me how many people don't like the second part of the album, it is much more experimental and progressive than Lizard. . . .

The thing is, the poll asks for this: "Which one do you prefer?" not "Which one is more important/progressive?" and apparently more people prefer Lizard (like me), whether or not they've reviewed it.  I haven't reviewed either one.

thellama73 wrote: CCVP wrote: Are you guys kidding me? Tarkus is one of the apexes of progressive rock wile Lizard is just a forgotten KC album sandwiched between their two big 70's incarnations. Sometimes this website is just . . . . wow. EDIT: well, I can understand that, knowing how so many people just LOVE ELP. They aren't my favorite band either, but credit is payed where credit is due. . . . Lizard is not a forgotten KC album. In fact, it's one of the best albums the band ever released. Tarkus is epic, but the rest of the album is so weak that it really makes for a tough sell. I am not surprised by this poll result at all.

I don't love much both those two albums, but I like Tarkus a bit more.

Tarkus, definitely.  Lizard just never really "clicked" with me.  (Except for "Indoor Games."  I love that song.)