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Topic ClosedSeinfeld Poll - most despicable main character?

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Poll Question: Which character appears to be the worse human being in Seinfeld?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
6 [16.67%]
20 [55.56%]
9 [25.00%]
1 [2.78%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

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manofmystery View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2010 at 19:35

Elaine, but that's to be expected; she is an attractive woman.Wink

George is just doing what a short, stocky, slow-witted, bald man has to do to survive.

Edited by manofmystery - September 20 2010 at 19:37


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2010 at 20:10
Originally posted by King By-Tor King By-Tor wrote:

When speaking of actors it's easily Michael Richards. Love the show but can't watch it the same way after his horrible racist f**k-up.

But you know we're not talking about the actors, here. We're talking about the characters. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2010 at 20:15
Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

Originally posted by King By-Tor King By-Tor wrote:

When speaking of actors it's easily Michael Richards. Love the show but can't watch it the same way after his horrible racist f**k-up.

But you know we're not talking about the actors, here. We're talking about the characters. 

Exactly. 

If we were to judge movies or tv shows or anything like it by the conducts of their real life actors and performers, we would have to dislike pretty much everything. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2010 at 20:19
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

Originally posted by King By-Tor King By-Tor wrote:

When speaking of actors it's easily Michael Richards. Love the show but can't watch it the same way after his horrible racist f**k-up.

But you know we're not talking about the actors, here. We're talking about the characters. 

Exactly. 

If we were to judge movies or tv shows or anything like it by the conducts of their real life actors and performers, we would have to dislike pretty much everything. 

Like I've said before; everybody is an a****le about something. We have to separate the artist from the art. 

Anyway, I have always disliked Elaine. I mean, I 'love to hate' her, but she'd be the last person I would ever want to hang out with. Much too much of a hypocrite about things, considering how shallow and narrow-minded she is in her own life.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2010 at 20:29
And I really don't believe Richards is a true card-carrying racist.  Yeah, I know what he said.  He was angry and he made a big mistake in anger and haste, to some people who were pushing his buttons.  He f##cked up, but his friends came out right away and said he's not like that, he swore he's not like that when he apologized, and I take him at his word.  I hardly think people like Dreyfuss and Larry David (a flaming liberal) would be hanging out with a guy they felt was truly racist. 

Just my opinion, could be wrong, maybe he does burn crosses every other Wednesday.  Wink



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2010 at 20:40
George obviously! LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2010 at 20:42
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

And I really don't believe Richards is a true card-carrying racist.  Yeah, I know what he said.  He was angry and he made a big mistake in anger and haste, to some people who were pushing his buttons.  He f##cked up, but his friends came out right away and said he's not like that, he swore he's not like that when he apologized, and I take him at his word.  I hardly think people like Dreyfuss and Larry David (a flaming liberal) would be hanging out with a guy they felt was truly racist. 

Just my opinion, could be wrong, maybe he does burn crosses every other Wednesday.  Wink



Well, he did a little more than simply explode on some guys. He went out of his way to say very cruel things regarding their ethnicity, and nothing else. The stuff he said . . . damn, even if I got as mad as he did, I don't even think I could come up with anything that specific and mean in the midst of a rage. He spoke like someone who has felt those ways already and had those thoughts for a long time, but kept them buried. I am not trying to sound self-righteous or anything, but I swear I don't think I would say anything racist to someone who made me angry. Because I honestly don't see the difference. If someone makes me mad, I get angry at them, not their skin color.

Anyway, you shouldn't judge whether someone is a racist or not based on how he acts around his friends. it's how he behaves toward strangers that shows what he's really about. And burning crosses isn't required, last time I checked, to be a 'closet' racist of sorts. Like I suspect Mr. Richards may be. 


Edited by JLocke - September 20 2010 at 21:02
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2010 at 21:13
I don't know....I'd have to see a pattern of behavior beyond ONE incident before I could be judge and jury that someone is a racist. 

Give you a hypothetical.  If Richards were a gay man, and the guys at the show whom he exploded at screamed back at him "F you, F___t !!!!" or something like that, would that automatically make you classify them as certified homophobic bigots?   Or could they have just been trying to really agitate and provoke in that particular exchange, in the heat of the moment?  Had that happened, I would say both parties were trying to hurt the other with awful words, but I think to label either with something so lasting and harsh over one exchange is perhaps inaccurate. 

I don't think a true racist, particularly one in the public eye for decades, could go through his whole life with just one incident.  There would be much more smoke, and comments from people who know him that....yeah this guy doesn't like blacks...other stories would have surfaced....but to my knowledge there is nothing else. 



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2010 at 21:44
Look, you have your opinion, I have mine, that's all. All I can do is base it on what I might do in similar situations. I couldn't see myself using a person's ethnic background as a way of hurting him. And I certainly wouldn't make references to unjustified murders committed against his race in the past. Would you? No matter how mad you were, would you fight back by attacking a man's skin color or making light of his culture's dark past?

I get the feeling you didn't really pay much attention to everything that was said that night. Richards did much more than call them n****rs. 

I still love his character on Seinfeld, and think he is a very funny, talented guy. But to act as if it's stretching things to assume him a racist is a little naive, in my opinion. I'm not calling him one for certain, since I can't see into his mind, but I am saying it's a very high possibility. I could be wrong, but asking for someone to do something wrong twice in order for it to actually be wrong seems very odd to me. What he did was wrong the first time, and I'm not going to brush it under the rug and assume he's a swell guy just because he hasn't done it since. Who knows how many times Richards may have said similar things in private, when there wasn't a camera to capture it? If you see footage of an abuser causing harm to his child or spouse, you don't assume he was having a bad day, do you? You call him what he is. 


Edited by JLocke - September 20 2010 at 21:52
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2010 at 21:51
You didn't even read the hypothetical because you messed up in your response.   I won't hijack this poor guys poll any further.....you're free to your definitions.  

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2010 at 21:58
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

You didn't even read the hypothetical because you messed up in your response.   I won't hijack this poor guys poll any further.....you're free to your definitions.  

Whoops, my bad. I'll address it correctly, now.

The short answer: yes. The long answer: it's complicated.

If Richards still made it personal first in your example, and if he were gay, it's possible the guys would have merely been trying to hurt him back as a reaction. It still wouldn't be right of them, but it would a bit more understandable. But by all logic, if Richards were gay, he wouldn't be spouting off racial slurs of any kind, because he himself would already be part of one of a minory and most likely knows how it feels. It would stop him, perhaps. But let's say that did happen . . . even if it would have been as a reaction, anybody who calls someone else a name based on that person's ethnicity, sexual orientation, mental defect, etc. is being a bigot. Of course, they could be joking, but in this situation, they wouldn't be, clearly. 

In the actual case with Richards, it's not complicated at all. We know all the variables and we know exactly what was said and for what reason. Richards was being heckled, so he decided to say something racist and cruel-hearted in return. Apparently he thought that was the appropriate, even-handed response. The first thing he jumped on was the color of their skin, which as far as I can see has nothing to do with how they were behaving. Had they been white hecklers, Richards probably would have still gotten angry, but he would have called them 'idiots' or some other name that is non-race-specific. Why? Because he is white, too. It is painfully clear that Richards said what he did because he is white, and they were black. Their heckling no longer became the issue, and he made it about race. He did. Not them. Why should I assume anything other than what is glaring obvious about this man?

That's all I'm saying. He's  a funny guy, but he did something very disgusting in my eyes. But you know what? He has the right to say or think whatever he wants about what any type of people he wants. And I'll support his right to say racist things, no matter how hurtful they might be. Because they ARE just words, not actions. It's also The Laugh Factory's right to keep him from coming back there if they want. And I think they are right for doing so.


Edited by JLocke - September 20 2010 at 22:07
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2010 at 22:08
Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

You didn't even read the hypothetical because you messed up in your response.   I won't hijack this poor guys poll any further.....you're free to your definitions.  

Whoops, my bad. I'll address it correctly, now.

The short answer: yes. The long answer: it's complicated.

If Richards still made it personal first in your example, and if he were gay, it's possible the guys would have merely been trying to hurt him back as a reaction. It still wouldn't be right of them, but it would a bit more understandable. But by all logic, if Richards were gay, he wouldn't be spouting off racial slurs of any kind, because he himself would already be part of one of a minory and most likely knows how it feels. It would stop him, perhaps. But let's say that did happen . . . even if it would have been as a reaction, anybody who calls someone else a name based on that person's ethnicity, sexual orientation, mental defect, etc. is being a bigot. Of course, they could be joking, but in this situation, they wouldn't be, clearly. 

In the actual case with Richards, it's not complicated at all. We know all the variables and we know exactly what was said and for what reason. Richards was being heckled, so he decided to say something racist and cruel-hearted in return. Apparently he thought that was the appropriate, even-handed response. The first thing he jumped on was the color of their skin, which as far as I can see has nothing to do with how they were behaving. Had they been white hecklers, Richards probably would have still gotten angry, but he would have called them 'idiots' or some other name that is non-race-specific. Why? Because he is white, too. It is painfully clear that Richards said what he did because he is white, and they were black. Their heckling no longer became the issue, and he made it about race. He did. Not them. Why should I assume anything other than what is glaring obvious about this man?

That's all I'm saying. He's  a funny guy, but he did something very disgusting in my eyes. But you know what? He has the right to say or think whatever he wants about what any type of people he wants. And I'll support his right to say racist things, no matter how hurtful they might be. Because they ARE just words, not actions. It's also The Laugh Factory's right to keep him from coming back there if they want. And I think they are right for doing so.


Minority groups are not racist against other minority groups? Hahahahahahahaha!LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2010 at 22:13
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

You didn't even read the hypothetical because you messed up in your response.   I won't hijack this poor guys poll any further.....you're free to your definitions.  

Whoops, my bad. I'll address it correctly, now.

The short answer: yes. The long answer: it's complicated.

If Richards still made it personal first in your example, and if he were gay, it's possible the guys would have merely been trying to hurt him back as a reaction. It still wouldn't be right of them, but it would a bit more understandable. But by all logic, if Richards were gay, he wouldn't be spouting off racial slurs of any kind, because he himself would already be part of one of a minory and most likely knows how it feels. It would stop him, perhaps. But let's say that did happen . . . even if it would have been as a reaction, anybody who calls someone else a name based on that person's ethnicity, sexual orientation, mental defect, etc. is being a bigot. Of course, they could be joking, but in this situation, they wouldn't be, clearly. 

In the actual case with Richards, it's not complicated at all. We know all the variables and we know exactly what was said and for what reason. Richards was being heckled, so he decided to say something racist and cruel-hearted in return. Apparently he thought that was the appropriate, even-handed response. The first thing he jumped on was the color of their skin, which as far as I can see has nothing to do with how they were behaving. Had they been white hecklers, Richards probably would have still gotten angry, but he would have called them 'idiots' or some other name that is non-race-specific. Why? Because he is white, too. It is painfully clear that Richards said what he did because he is white, and they were black. Their heckling no longer became the issue, and he made it about race. He did. Not them. Why should I assume anything other than what is glaring obvious about this man?

That's all I'm saying. He's  a funny guy, but he did something very disgusting in my eyes. But you know what? He has the right to say or think whatever he wants about what any type of people he wants. And I'll support his right to say racist things, no matter how hurtful they might be. Because they ARE just words, not actions. It's also The Laugh Factory's right to keep him from coming back there if they want. And I think they are right for doing so.


Minority groups are not racist against other minority groups? Hahahahahahahaha!LOL

Never in my life have I ever said anything as idiotic as ''minority groups are not racist against other minority groups.'' 

Plenty of black people keep gay folks down all the time. But is that logical? Nope. 

What I said: ''But by all logic, if Richards were gay, he wouldn't be spouting off racial slurs of any kind, because he himself would already be part of one of a minory and most likely knows how it feels.'' I did not say it was impossible, and I still considered the possibility of it happening and went on with my post. 

And from what I've seen, not a single gay person has ever spoken against black people in this way. Not once have I seen that. I'm sure it has happened, but not enough to be all that common. But the reverse seems to happen very often. Plenty of black christians push to keep gay marriage unrecognized. I'm not about go into THAT, however. Talk about hijacking a thread. LOL


Edited by JLocke - September 20 2010 at 22:16
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2010 at 00:03
Originally posted by manofmystery manofmystery wrote:

 
George is just doing what a short, stocky, slow-witted, bald man has to do to survive.
 
LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2010 at 00:09
George is winning in a landslide?  Really?  Ermm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2010 at 00:42
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

George is winning in a landslide?  Really?  Ermm

I don't get it, either. I've always liked George. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2010 at 06:02
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Let's remember when someone yelled fire and he pushed the old lady aside as he was running away from danger.. 


Who did that? I can't remember LOL

I voted George btw
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2010 at 23:13
George, but only cause it's tough love between us LOL


Edited by Deleuze - September 25 2010 at 23:14
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2010 at 23:05
Originally posted by June June wrote:

Say Vandelay!

George for me. Come on, dude, if only he'd put as much energy into finding a job than into faking a job.

And trying to get a date right after his fiancée died?

And because of that Tongue




Oh for crying out loud. Every time my wife and I go furniture shopping I can't try out a couch without her saying, "oh my god! stop it george!"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2010 at 16:58
If I knew those characters in real life, I'd probably be bothered the most by Kramer.  His character is a good guy at heart, but I couldn't stand having someone popping in and out of my home and taking whatever he wants out of my fridge or misplacing my belongings.  I'm a fairly organized guy, and I appreciate my privacy.  I'd say Jerry was right for taking his keys back, although it made things complicated.

I have a twin brother, and Kramer would be one of those people who could know us both for years and still mix us up regularly.  He kept calling Susan "Lilly".  "Poor Lilly ...." LOL

Kramer obviously makes me laugh, but I relate more to the other 3 characters.

I won't vote for Kramer though, because he's technically not the worst human being of the 4.  Tough call.  Let me think about it.





Edited by Stooge - September 29 2010 at 17:00
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