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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2010 at 06:32
Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

By the way, based on your review, you missed the major, most important theme of the Job story (but from what I can tell, so did Torman Maxt).  Wink

I'm an Atheist, Robert. What do you expect me to think about the Job story? Tongue

Well even atheists can know about the bible and study it. In fact it's better they do know a bit.

People who believe in God should know the bible too.....but not all do.

Actually even though a non believer myself this albums lyrics don't bother me. It isn't preaching or giving a message to believe. It's a story from the bible....thats all. Other albums have fantasy themes too!Tongue

I was a Christian for many years. I think I know a thing or two about it. 

Well your post suggested otherwise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JLocke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2010 at 07:57
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

By the way, based on your review, you missed the major, most important theme of the Job story (but from what I can tell, so did Torman Maxt).  Wink

I'm an Atheist, Robert. What do you expect me to think about the Job story? Tongue

Well even atheists can know about the bible and study it. In fact it's better they do know a bit.

People who believe in God should know the bible too.....but not all do.

Actually even though a non believer myself this albums lyrics don't bother me. It isn't preaching or giving a message to believe. It's a story from the bible....thats all. Other albums have fantasy themes too!Tongue

I was a Christian for many years. I think I know a thing or two about it. 

Well your post suggested otherwise.

How? That because I'm an Atheist, my natural reaction to the Job story is negative? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2010 at 08:16
Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

By the way, based on your review, you missed the major, most important theme of the Job story (but from what I can tell, so did Torman Maxt).  Wink

I'm an Atheist, Robert. What do you expect me to think about the Job story? Tongue

Well even atheists can know about the bible and study it. In fact it's better they do know a bit.

People who believe in God should know the bible too.....but not all do.

Actually even though a non believer myself this albums lyrics don't bother me. It isn't preaching or giving a message to believe. It's a story from the bible....thats all. Other albums have fantasy themes too!Tongue

I was a Christian for many years. I think I know a thing or two about it. 

Well your post suggested otherwise.

How? That because I'm an Atheist, my natural reaction to the Job story is negative? 

Sorry I think I misread your initial post.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JLocke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2010 at 12:19
It's cool. No bigs.

Edited by JLocke - October 22 2010 at 12:20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JLocke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2010 at 19:04
Originally posted by akin akin wrote:

I think PA should make an exception and remove Torman Maxt from the database.

Actually, I'm now pretty sure Akin was kidding, there. He just gave the album a whopping three stars, and indirectly accused us one-star reviews of giving petty reasons for our ratings. 

I don't want them deleted, anyway. Once inducted, always inducted. But I do wonder if perhaps PR would be a better place for them. And this is coming from the guy who's usually very liberal about the controversial additions. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tuxon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2010 at 20:34
Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

Originally posted by akin akin wrote:

I think PA should make an exception and remove Torman Maxt from the database.

Actually, I'm now pretty sure Akin was kidding, there. He just gave the album a whopping three stars, and indirectly accused us one-star reviews of giving petty reasons for our ratings. 

I don't want them deleted, anyway. Once inducted, always inducted. But I do wonder if perhaps PR would be a better place for them. And this is coming from the guy who's usually very liberal about the controversial additions. 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JLocke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2010 at 21:33
Embarrassed It was just a suggestion. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JLocke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2010 at 01:35
Wow. This has hit me just a little while ago, but I really feel like a jerk all of a sudden. I don't hate the guys in Torman Maxt, and I wish them all the success they can get. The music just doesn't speak to me. At all. I really hope I haven't hurt anybody personally over what I said in those reviews. 

Unhappy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote akin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2010 at 08:15
I gave a 3-star review, but if they were removed, that would not be so bad, after all all the controversy would be gone.

About the 1-star reviews, I feel that many reviewers would instead give a 2-star rating if there wasn´t the controversy. That would still mean the album is not good
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2010 at 08:50
Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

Wow. This has hit me just a little while ago, but I really feel like a jerk all of a sudden. I don't hate the guys in Torman Maxt, and I wish them all the success they can get. The music just doesn't speak to me. At all. I really hope I haven't hurt anybody personally over what I said in those reviews. 

Unhappy


That's kinda why I'm refraining from reviewing some of their older releases (which are also 1 star releases IMO).

I may get to it at some point, but if I do, I want to make sure I review it as diplomatically as possible. I also feel bad for these guys a little bit... it's really a shame that they've received such multitudes of negative hype. Then again, the music is not very good... Ermm

Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2010 at 08:56
Don't worry I may balance it the other way with a three star review. 

What am I saying....when was the last time I reviewed?Shocked
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CCVP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2010 at 10:12
Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

Wow. This has hit me just a little while ago, but I really feel like a jerk all of a sudden. I don't hate the guys in Torman Maxt, and I wish them all the success they can get. The music just doesn't speak to me. At all. I really hope I haven't hurt anybody personally over what I said in those reviews. 

Unhappy


That would really work now. One forum post can obviously redeem you for bashing their music in reviews that were published on the front page of the site + are permanently placed in the band's page/albums.

Why do I even care anymore, it is not even about the music, it is about simply bashing the guys, no matter if they put out another Dark Side combined with Court, Per un Amico and Thick as a Brick.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2010 at 10:38
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

 

Why do I even care anymore, it is not even about the music, it is about simply bashing the guys, no matter if they put out another Dark Side combined with Court, Per un Amico and Thick as a Brick.

But that's not the case, the album IMO and the opinion of most of the reviewers here, is less than mediocre.

As usual, I write song by song reviews, so I have explained repeatedly why I consider this album deserves one star, if they ever release a good album, I'll be the first to accept it, but for now, I don't feel guilty for saying MY truth.

Never bashed the band members, they may be very nice guys (even when I don't agree with the attemptof buying reviews), we talk about the music and the musician, not about the person, if they take it personally, it's their problem.

This guys didn't felt guilty for accusing us of having an agenda, and many other things, without verifying first if the album was good.

They only threw in our face reviews from other sites.....Now, If the album was so good as other sites point, it would had been sold, but they had to give it for free, and believe me, still being for free, I deleted it as I'm sure  many others did.

I heard only the free material (in their site) of Part II (I won't pay a dime for an album of this band after the first experience), and yes, they have improved, but still sound amateurish IMO.....So don't worry CCVP I don't see them releasing a new DSOTM or ITCOCK in the next 50 years.

Iván
            
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Finnforest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2010 at 11:12
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

Wow. This has hit me just a little while ago, but I really feel like a jerk all of a sudden. I don't hate the guys in Torman Maxt, and I wish them all the success they can get. The music just doesn't speak to me. At all. I really hope I haven't hurt anybody personally over what I said in those reviews. 

Unhappy


 

Why do I even care anymore, it is not even about the music, it is about simply bashing the guys, no matter if they put out another Dark Side combined with Court, Per un Amico and Thick as a Brick.



That's a ridiculous accusation.  You're saying that all of these reviewers are just bashing without evaluating the music?  And that if the band released a truly legendary prog album, our guys would still bash it?

You have a low, and in my opinion  a completely false view of your fellow collaborators. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JLocke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2010 at 11:25
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

Wow. This has hit me just a little while ago, but I really feel like a jerk all of a sudden. I don't hate the guys in Torman Maxt, and I wish them all the success they can get. The music just doesn't speak to me. At all. I really hope I haven't hurt anybody personally over what I said in those reviews. 

Unhappy


That would really work now. One forum post can obviously redeem you for bashing their music in reviews that were published on the front page of the site + are permanently placed in the band's page/albums.

Why do I even care anymore, it is not even about the music, it is about simply bashing the guys, no matter if they put out another Dark Side combined with Court, Per un Amico and Thick as a Brick.

I meant everything I said in those reviews, and I'm not taking my words back. That wasn't the point of the post. Regardless of how bad I think the music is, I genuinely do hope I haven't hurt any actual people by saying what I did. Just because I hate the music doesn't mean I hate the musicians. If you don;t believe me, and would rather continue on with your false accusations, I could really care less. I just thought I would attempt to set you straight about me. Think what you want about me; I doubt it could be much worse than how I view you right now. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JLocke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2010 at 11:30
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

 

Why do I even care anymore, it is not even about the music, it is about simply bashing the guys, no matter if they put out another Dark Side combined with Court, Per un Amico and Thick as a Brick.

But that's not the case, the album IMO and the opinion of most of the reviewers here, is less than mediocre.

As usual, I write song by song reviews, so I have explained repeatedly why I consider this album deserves one star, if they ever release a good album, I'll be the first to accept it, but for now, I don't feel guilty for saying MY truth.

Never bashed the band members, they may be very nice guys (even when I don't agree with the attemptof buying reviews), we talk about the music and the musician, not about the person, if they take it personally, it's their problem.

This guys didn't felt guilty for accusing us of having an agenda, and many other things, without verifying first if the album was good.

They only threw in our face reviews from other sites.....Now, If the album was so good as other sites point, it would had been sold, but they had to give it for free, and believe me, still being for free, I deleted it as I'm sure  many others did.

I heard only the free material (in their site) of Part II (I won't pay a dime for an album of this band after the first experience), and yes, they have improved, but still sound amateurish IMO.....So don't worry CCVP I don't see them releasing a new DSOTM or ITCOCK in the next 50 years.

Iván

After putting it exactly like that, Ivan, I feel a little better about this. I honestly don't enjoy writing reviews about albums I hate (in fact, I've only ever written three scathing reviews thus far), but when I'm trying to get to the bottom of something as big as this issue seemed to be, I have to be honest at the end of the day. And I honestly hate the music. Unhappy

When I read what you typed about deleting the album, I actually laughed out loud. Totally guilty of doing that, myself. I do still hope the band members, if they read my review, don't take it personally, but at the same time, they most likely will to a certain degree, and as you said, I can't really worry about it. But it still is kind of eating at me, I honestly don't know why. Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2010 at 11:36
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

Wow. This has hit me just a little while ago, but I really feel like a jerk all of a sudden. I don't hate the guys in Torman Maxt, and I wish them all the success they can get. The music just doesn't speak to me. At all. I really hope I haven't hurt anybody personally over what I said in those reviews. 

Unhappy


That would really work now. One forum post can obviously redeem you for bashing their music in reviews that were published on the front page of the site + are permanently placed in the band's page/albums.

Why do I even care anymore, it is not even about the music, it is about simply bashing the guys, no matter if they put out another Dark Side combined with Court, Per un Amico and Thick as a Brick.


Sorry Caio, but it IS about the music. It's not about the bashing.

I've said at least a dozen times that I RATE BASED ON MY OWN OPINION, NOT THE OPINION OF OTHERS. Thus, no bashing came from my part (Or Ivan's, or Jonas', or most other people). Their other albums are awful as well IMO, and that's why I don't intend on reviewing them.

I'll quote a couple of the posts where I've clearly already stated why it is about the music, and I have no intention of bashing innocent people...

Quote Tony seems like a nice guy, even though I completely disagree with his stance on the reviewers here. I wasn't even a member of this website when all the controversy happened, yet I gave it 1 star. I rate based on how much I like the music, not on how popular the album is. I know many of the other reviewers who gave 1 and 2 star reviews, and they feel the same way...


Quote
But you have to understand that that's an opinion, not a fact. I think it's every bit as bad as it's portrayed here, and some people like you don't. I also write for Sea of Tranquility, which gave a positive review, and I still hate the album. People give Foxtrot, Images & Words, and Close to the Edge 1 star reviews. It's all based on personal opinion, not whether or not other people like it.
 
For example, check out my review of Pain of Salvation's Scarsick. If I remember correctly, I am the ONLY collaborator on PA to give that album a 5 star review. I don't give a sh*t what other people think, and I don't care how scientists think my mind works.
 
Of course, there is some truth to what you've said, but it's not the complete superlative statement that you make it seem. I can't speak for everyone, but my opinion is rarely, if ever influenced by what others think, especially when it comes to reviewing.


Quote It's a pretty simple concept:

I checked out the album because it was free, I enjoy concept albums, and the samples sounded OK. I like heavy prog rock, and quite frankly, I went into the album expecting much better than what it turned out to be. I was proven wrong when my ears were graced with some really poor music.

And just to clear things up, I don't care what other people think of an album when it comes to reviewing. I disagree with most PA reviewers on at least a few albums, and thus, I've don't let other people's reviews influence my own review. Again, to prove this, I will have everybody scroll down through the collaborator reviews of this album:

http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=13659

I'm one of TWO collaborators to rate the album with 5 stars. I love the album, and it just shows how much I care about the morons' opinions who ranked it with 1 or 2 stars. Tongue (just kidding, no offense intended to Scarsick-haters).


I think you get my point by now. It's an album that I find to be severely flawed. It's not an album that I try to bash because other people don't like it. Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2010 at 18:28
Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

 

When I read what you typed about deleting the album, I actually laughed out loud. Totally guilty of doing that, myself. I do still hope the band members, if they read my review, don't take it personally, but at the same time, they most likely will to a certain degree, and as you said, I can't really worry about it. But it still is kind of eating at me, I honestly don't know why. Confused

Never typed anything about deleting the album my friend.

It's Prog, so it belongs here, but being Prog is not a synonym of being good.

Iván
            
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Padraic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2010 at 18:31
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by JLocke JLocke wrote:

 

When I read what you typed about deleting the album, I actually laughed out loud. Totally guilty of doing that, myself. I do still hope the band members, if they read my review, don't take it personally, but at the same time, they most likely will to a certain degree, and as you said, I can't really worry about it. But it still is kind of eating at me, I honestly don't know why. Confused

Never typed anything about deleting the album my friend.



Deleted it from your hard drive, he meant.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2010 at 18:36
Thanks Padraic, and yes, why should I use space that I need in music that I don't like?

I Love Genesis, but I don't have any post ATTW3 album, because I won't listen it.

Iván.

 
            
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