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Seeking a more elegant definition for Prog

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The Dark Elf View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2017 at 16:33
Progressive Rock

A form of music that for a brief period of time in the late 1960s to the mid 1970s was defined by breaking the constraints of the Blues-based Rock idiom, synthesizing disparate aspects of Western Classical, Jazz and Eastern music with a virtuosic approach featuring odd time signatures, synthesizers, and compositions extended far beyond the average Rock tune of the era. Legend has it that in a span from 1971 to 1975, it was actually popular -- although that is still a working theory based on four or five best-selling bands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2018 at 03:04
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Progressive Rock

A form of music that for a brief period of time in the late 1960s to the mid 1970s was defined by breaking the constraints of the Blues-based Rock idiom, synthesizing disparate aspects of Western Classical, Jazz and Eastern music with a virtuosic approach featuring odd time signatures, synthesizers, and compositions extended far beyond the average Rock tune of the era. Legend has it that in a span from 1971 to 1975, it was actually popular -- although that is still a working theory based on four or five best-selling bands.

I think you just might have it right here.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2018 at 04:10
Seems to me the more interesting question is why rock, a lowbrow, untrained form of youth music, progressed at all.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2018 at 04:57
Progressive Rock

Music that sounds like something you know but isn't quite that but more to do with that je ne sais quoi type deal you often find lingering in the back of the throat like ahhh but it's more oorhhh in that oh so special way that sounds like that and not like the other thing that never was like the former...but a continuation of the same no less.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2018 at 06:06
Prog is music for the masses!! (or was that Depeche Mode-album?)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiz_d_kidd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2018 at 09:58
From the new book, "Wonderous Stories" by Jerry Ewing...

"Prog rock is music the challenges the listener while also intriguing them.  It has the ability to transport listeners to far-off lands and wrap them lovingly in the embrace of creative words and sonic pictures, and to truly amaze with the sheer unbridled precociousness of its creators".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Larkstongue41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2018 at 10:08
^ The same could be said about nearly any music genre though...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hellogoodbye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2018 at 11:12
Prog rock: Rog'n Roll with a P.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2018 at 11:23
Music that makes idiots cringe

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiz_d_kidd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2018 at 09:02
I would expand upon the basic statement...

Progressive Rock:  Music springing from or incorporating elements from the rock idiom in which the writer or performer seeks to expand beyond the genre's traditional musical limitations and constraints...

... by developing more complex compositions and arrangements, making use of non-traditional rock musical instrumentation and time-signatures, adapting elements of other musical genres, executing with virtousic musicianship, and presenting it all to the listener in a manner so boldly and proudly as to be deemed (inappropriately) as pretentious.






Edited by wiz_d_kidd - January 18 2018 at 11:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fracturematt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2018 at 14:34
The difficulty comes with, I as a musician can come up with a 10 minute, dynamic song with peaks and valleys and little repetition, and someone can take a listen and think "this doesn't sound like any of the prog bands I like from the 70s therefore it's not prog."


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2018 at 02:43
Originally posted by fracturematt fracturematt wrote:

The difficulty comes with, I as a musician can come up with a 10 minute, dynamic song with peaks and valleys and little repetition, and someone can take a listen and think "this doesn't sound like any of the prog bands I like from the 70s therefore it's not prog."



I've been in dozens of bands and always felt the exact same way.

I think we expend useless energy trying to come up with labels for things nobody except this community would care about anyway, lol.

There's like, three or four different threads regarding labels right now. Not saying others can't enjoy that discussion, but I can't help but be reminded of the old metal forums I used to frequent. Every other thread was over what constituted "death versus black or blackened death metal", etc. As a psych major I get a kick out of that because it's like people insist on losing the forest for the trees when it comes to art. Can't just listen and enjoy, gotta spend hours pontificating on labels, because THAT's what matters, right? LOL

I'm almost certain all the best prog artists give two sh*ts about genre and create unrestricted sound. Whatever it comes out as, that's what it is. Got some sitar in there? The kids will say you have world influences! Who cares! Prog rock on! Cool


Edited by Frenetic Zetetic - January 20 2018 at 02:45

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In blood, he's writing the lyrics of a brand-new tune...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2018 at 15:20
Originally posted by maani maani wrote:

It is not exactly "elegant," but here is the definition I use:
 
"Progressive rock” is a mindset, a conscious and deliberate approach to writing rock music based on certain elements, which usually include some or all of the following: incorporation of Western (classical, jazz et al), Eastern (Indian, Middle Eastern et al) and/or “world” (African, Latin et al) influences; use of non-standard (for rock) chord progressions; use of odd and/or shifting time signatures; use of non-standard instrumentation (from sax, flute or violin to sitar, bagpipes or African percussion); an “orchestral” (i.e., “scored”) approach to arrangement; extended compositions, often including extended instrumental passages; virtuoso musicianship, often including extended solos; lyrics that tend toward the esoteric or “fantastical” and/or include numerous “literary” references; and the use of keyboards (Mellotron, synthesizers, etc.) and the recording studio itself to create effects, “textures” and “atmospheres.”
 
Peace.

The only thing that may need to be added, is the fact that a lot of the music also had improvisational moments that sometimes lasted a long time, and became a proper part of the piece of music. 

I always think that not all music is "composed" per se, and that some people are very good at taking advantage of mistakes and oddball moments, and end up using them somewhere down the line. Even, as an example, the earlier Caravan material and longer cuts, like "For Richard" ... was more than likely not "composed" with (I imagine) at least 5 to 7 or 8 minutes worth of it that originally started as a nice improvisation upon a theme ... another one that fits this immensely, but is within a "jazz" context, is Soft Machine, whose first several albums had full sides, and none of them were ever played the same ... which would suggest that it was improvised anyway, even if some of the folks in the band were already fairly advanced educated musicians.

But, not all of the "progressive" musicians had as much of an educated background at all! Not to mention that at 19/20 years old, your learning is not likely to be as strong as your definition would suggest? However, and this maybe the real difference, is that the modern "rock" idea of 3, or 4 or 5 people creating a piece of music is the definition of the new "composer" ... and if so, the marriage becomes a bit different when one factors different abilities and styles and places.

Just a thought!
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