Clean Vocals or Death Growl? (Modern Prog)

Originally posted by Wanorak Clean all the way for me.

I can't stand death metal growls except for Opeth. I don't in any way enjoy the growls but for Opeth it doesn't take as much away from my listening experience as it usually does. I always prefer clean vocals 100% of the time. However I am by no means trying to delegitimize the vocal style, I just can't stand to listen to it.

I hate eggplant.

Its okay to hate growls.

Originally posted by appudds Its okay to hate growls. But when you have an insanely heavy section coming in the song, would you like clean vocals in it? Or growls or screams to match the intensity? We all know how bad "A Nightmare to Remember" by dream theater was. Labrie literally killed the mood of the whole song though Portnoy did something to bring the back the mood with his "so called" growls. Even "The Dark Eternal Night" from Systematic Chaos. Labrie kills it but it was okay as Portnoy covered up with some heavy vocals. [The crazy instrumental section in the middle of the song made it just spit off the negatives which Labrie brought to the song] So, clean in every song in every feel spoils the song sometimes.

Originally posted by appudds Its okay to hate growls. But when you have an insanely heavy section coming in the song, would you like clean vocals in it? Or growls or screams to match the intensity? We all know how bad "A Nightmare to Remember" by dream theater was. Labrie literally killed the mood of the whole song though Portnoy did something to bring the back the mood with his "so called" growls. Even "The Dark Eternal Night" from Systematic Chaos. Labrie kills it but it was okay as Portnoy covered up with some heavy vocals. [The crazy instrumental section in the middle of the song made it just spit off the negatives which Labrie brought to the song] So, clean in every song in every feel spoils the song sometimes.

Oh, sorry, I'm not among those who knew how bad "A Nightmare to Remember" is... I actually like it very much, and think that the vocals are perfectly adequate. Pornoy's "growls" don't bother me nearly as much as I feared they would, as long as I don't pay attention to the lyrics (I feel musically they fit very well with the way the music is evolving, but the lyrics for that part just don't fit with the mood... well, the lyrics on the whole songs are useless, really). As for growls themselves, I almost never ever like them (some few counted exceptions only), and I do like heavy music, and if they can be sung with clean vocals, all the better for me (I'm OK if agressive, loud, vocals are used, only not growls... there are many metal singer who can do it perfectly).

^^^ Or Univers Zero, for that matter (of course, that's not modern prog).  I agree that growls would offer another dimension, I am in favour as much as diversity of vocal techniques as possible.  I am just not in favour of indiscriminate use of growls or shrieks for any heavy section.  E.g. The Killswitch Engage cover of Holy Diver...I dislike the rasp in the chorus. 

Originally posted by rogerthat I am just not in favour of indiscriminate use of growls or shrieks for any heavy section.

No disrespect to the metal crowd but the death growl or whetever it's correctly called sounds ridiculous to these 51 year old ears. I'm not averse to heavy music but make it clean vocals every time please.

This clean v/s death growl dichotomy is somewhat generalized.  The skills that somebody who produces some grit without getting into growls requires are very different from somebody who is amazing at melody and singers frequently find it hard to achieve both at the same time.  Likewise, to growl and sing cleanly but with grit.  There are a few singers who are good at both grit and melody or grit and growls or all three but they are the exceptions rather than the rule.  Mike Patton for one and Gildenlow has made some modest efforts to growl as well.     Further, 'clean' itself involves a wide range of styles.  It would be hard for a rock singer to sing jazz and vice versa.  A really good singer wouldn't have to rely on growling or somebody else who growls to achieve some measure of versatility.   I think it says more about how uniform a lot of singers have started sounding that growls seem to be called for to break up the same-sounding effect and create some variety.   Because as much as I like growls, they are useful in a smaller set of situations than 'non-growls' and are not always required to create contrast.   That they are itself shows that too many singers seem to emulate their influences (usually Tate/Bruce/Halford/Dio in the case of metal) instead of singing in their own voice.