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floflo79 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floflo79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2014 at 07:53
This is a great fact !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Metalmarsh89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2014 at 20:45
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Well, at least the Drumitar never caught on so we can be thankful for small mercies.


Or the microtar, for that matter. Could you imagine a vocalist singing into their own crotch so that they wouldn't have to stand in front of the mic stand or carry it around?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghost_of_morphy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2014 at 15:14
Originally posted by Rednight Rednight wrote:

Originally posted by AreYouHuman AreYouHuman wrote:

Originally posted by thwok thwok wrote:

I'm not positive if this qualifies as obscure enough, but Phil Collins plays drums on Howard Jones' 80's hit "No One Is To Blame."

That was the second version of the song, and PC drummed and sang harmonies on it.

All less obscure than the fact that Phil Collins (not PC, thank you) once produced Adam Ant, whatever the song was.

This is probably not obscure to most of you, but I just learned that Phil Collins played drums for Led Zeppelin's Live Aid performance at Philadelphia in 1985.  NOW THAT PHIL COLLINS HAD DEFINITIVELY BEEN LINKED TO A BONA FIDE PROGRESSIVE ACT, WHY ARE WE STILL DENYING HIM ENTRY INTO THE PROG RELATED CATEGORY??????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uduwudu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2014 at 21:24
Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

Originally posted by Rednight Rednight wrote:

Originally posted by AreYouHuman AreYouHuman wrote:

Originally posted by thwok thwok wrote:

I'm not positive if this qualifies as obscure enough, but Phil Collins plays drums on Howard Jones' 80's hit "No One Is To Blame."

That was the second version of the song, and PC drummed and sang harmonies on it.

All less obscure than the fact that Phil Collins (not PC, thank you) once produced Adam Ant, whatever the song was.

This is probably not obscure to most of you, but I just learned that Phil Collins played drums for Led Zeppelin's Live Aid performance at Philadelphia in 1985.  NOW THAT PHIL COLLINS HAD DEFINITIVELY BEEN LINKED TO A BONA FIDE PROGRESSIVE ACT, WHY ARE WE STILL DENYING HIM ENTRY INTO THE PROG RELATED CATEGORY??????


We-ll as much as I enjoy PC with Genesis, Bran X and various session appearances I could not in good conscience refer the uninitiated to A Phil album saying it's like a prog album. He recorded many soul and pop tunes as a solo artist. Many strings to his bow.

This is like a reverse reaction to the mainstream pop listeners who might hear Genesis and think "Oh, it's Phil Collins...", just hearing the vocal and stopping there. Mind you Genesis did do a soul and oldies medley released on that Knebworth Silver Clef Awards compilation. Maybe they could be prog related as well. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2014 at 23:43
Led Zeppelin are already on PA. Marc Bolan's dog features vocals on Pink Floyd at Pompeii. Why don't we add T.Rex?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2014 at 17:09
The mystery and controversy of Jimi Hendrix burnt guitars:

This is a bit long, neither very obscure nor very prog but perhaps interesting for those who may not know.  Everybody is familiar with the iconic event of Hendrix setting one of his Fender Stratocasters on fire at the end of his show at the Monterey Pop Festival in June 1967. It was captured in video footage for posterity and there are plenty of pictures of it. However Hendrix had already set a Strat on fire for the first time at the Astoria Theater in Finsbury Park, London in March 1967, and while there are plenty of witness accounts there is no graphic material documenting that event.

The problem is, there seems to be a Hendrix burnt Strat too much. The Strat burnt at Monterey was custom-painted in white-red and with several flower motifs painted by Jimi himself. Immediately after setting it on fire with lighter fluid he completely smashed it and threw the neck to the audience. It may seem hard to believe that he would burn and smash a guitar he had himself decorated instead of some cheap stunt-guitar, but indeed he told to the audience that for them he was going to sacrifice something he really loved. Apparently he did this to top The Who’s Pete Townshend who a bit earlier in the day had shoved his Les Paul’s neck into an amplifier, and anyway it seems that it was not one of his favourite Strats for playing, since for most of the show he played a black one. At any rate the video footage is clear, that was the guitar he set on fire at Monterey, and only one piece of the body is known to remain and it has been displayed at the Seattle Experience Music Project museum in some Hendrix exhibits.







Now to the Astoria burnt Strat. This had a sunburst finish, Hendrix only set the guitar on fire but didn’t smash it, and he was quickly stopped by the crew so the guitar only got superficially torched. In 2007, Hendrix former press officer Tony Garland claimed that after the gig the torched guitar had been taken to his parent’s house and remained there forgotten in the garage until his nephew found it in 2007. He put it for auction and got UK£ 280,000.



http://www.express.co.uk/news/showbiz/59968/Hendrix-s-guitar-sells-for-163-280-000


The thing is, Frank Zappa had another torched Hendrix Strat in sunburst finish. He received it from a Hendrix roadie called Howard Parker after the Miami Pop Festival in 1968 and Frank assumed that it had been burnt at that show. He kept it for a while and in the mid 1970’s he put it in working condition (for right hand playing of course) and appeared with it in a couple of guitar magazines in 1977, and played it in several occasions.



Eventually it got lost until his son Dweezil Zappa found under the family home stairs and put it back again in working condition. The problem is, all eyewitnesses of the Miami Pop 1968 seem to agree that Jimi did not burn any guitar at that event (where Jimi played two shows). In 2002 Dweezil wanted to put the guitar for auction so he and the auction house speculated that this was the same guitar Jimi had burnt at the Astoria and that he had burnt it again at Miami, but the fact that so many witnesses declared that no Strat had been burnt at Miami apparently turned the bieders down and Dweezil didn’t get the amount he was hoping for.

 

http://www.feelnumb.com/2009/11/24/the-famous-zappahendrix-guitar/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2277023.stm

All accounts seem to agree that there is only evidence of Jimi having burnt 2 guitars ever, a sunburst one at the Astoria and the red-white one at Monterey (although he smashed a couple more without burning them). The sunburst guitars from Tony Garland and from the Zappa’s are obviously not the same guitar, which leads to a couple of possibilities:

a) Both are authentic, but for whatever reason Jimi burnt a third guitar in some show, perhaps at Miami 1968 even if witnesses do not confirm it, or perhaps at any other show for which there are no witnesses and no record of any kind.

b)  One of the two is a fake. Frank Zappa claimed to have received his in 1968 and at least there is picture evidence that he had it in 1977. And yet Dweezil had trouble trying to auction it for a good value. Garland’s one suddenly appeared only in 2007 and someone paid UK£ 280,000 for it.

Who would you rather believe? 



Edited by Gerinski - November 05 2014 at 17:15
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meltdowner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2014 at 17:27
^ One of them came from a parallel universe LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2014 at 17:52
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

The beautiful piano intro to Genesis' Firth Of Fifth was normally omitted when they played the song live, and this may have led some people to speculate whether perhaps Tony Banks had any difficulty playing it live. Not at all, the reason was related to the limitations of the equipment of the time. They could not afford taking a real grand piano on tour, so Tony used the RMI Electra-Piano 368 electric piano, but this instrument had 2 important limitations, first of all it did not have a touch-sensitive keyboard, meaning that regardless of how soft or hard you hit the keys, the notes always sounded at a fixed volume. Using a volume pedal could mitigate a bit this problem but for such a dynamic section as that intro this was insufficient. The other problem was that it had a 68 notes keyboard instead of the 88 notes of a real piano, so the highest notes could not be played as they are in the studio recording. Tony had to transpose some sections to a lower octave, something he did not really like, and once while playing it at a gig he got carried away and forgot that he wasn't sitting at a real piano and suddenly ran out of notes and had to stop playing, to the amazement of the other band members. 


Amazing info. Thanks Gerrard. ;)
Huge huge appreciator o the firth of fifth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2014 at 17:59
Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

 

Amazing info. Thanks Gerrard. ;)
Huge huge appreciator o the firth of fifth.

Thanks Tongue  By the way, when Tony had to stop because he ran out of notes on the RMI Electra-Piano, Phil Collins kind of saved the situation by looking at the other guys and signaling the entry to the multi-instrumental part of the song.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghost_of_morphy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2014 at 20:54
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Led Zeppelin are already on PA. Marc Bolan's dog features vocals on Pink Floyd at Pompeii. Why don't we add T.Rex?

My point exactly.  If LZ is prog, then PC must be prog related since he played for a prog act.  Oh and who are these groups Genesis, Brand X, etc.?   Do they do Motown?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Intruder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2014 at 09:16
Apparently Jimmy Page HATED Phil Collins - Pagey said the reason the Zep Live Aid performance came off so badly was 'cause Phil didn't know the tunes and hadn't rehearsed.  Pagey claims that he would yell to Collins to pick it up or slow down, but all Phil would do was give him a big sh*t eating grin and carry on bashing away.  Pagey, in no uncertain terms, believes that Phil sabotaged the Zep reunion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twosteves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2014 at 09:24
Phil always said besides Bruford--Bonham was his fav drummer---I think he was the wrong choice for the job-but as he said he was there and a big deal at the time----I doubt that he intentionally had any interest in sabotaging the reunion---as he loved the band---but it is a train wreak but all of Zeps attempts after Bonham died were not that good except maybe the last attempt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2014 at 09:29
Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Led Zeppelin are already on PA. Marc Bolan's dog features vocals on Pink Floyd at Pompeii. Why don't we add T.Rex?

My point exactly.  If LZ is prog, then PC must be prog related since he played for a prog act.  Oh and who are these groups Genesis, Brand X, etc.?   Do they do Motown?
More seriously: I don't know if the rule has been changed in the meantime, but when I joined PA an artist should have at least one full prog album to be featured on the site. Genesis have their page based on their output. I don't like them too much but I surely can't say that they are not prog.

Adding Phil Collins as solo artist means that he has released a full prog album and honestly, apart of a bunch of songs on Face Value I don't see other prog things in his solo discography.
There are other examples of this kind: Stewart Copeland was drummer in Curved Air (and also Sonja's husband, lucky man...) but after them he was in Police, and also his following solo works don't sound prog to me.
Annie Haslam from Renaissance is another, Christine Boothe from Magenta is not here for the same reason Annie is not. 

"Since he played for a prog act" doesn't qualify for the site. Being a prog act does. Then you can argue about why Led Zeppelin, Moody Blues, Vangelis and Beatles are or aren't in a full prog category.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghost_of_morphy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2014 at 10:04
Lol.  There is a unwritten rule that Phil Collis cannot be on PA no matter what even though he is practically the iconic prog related artist.  Just look at the so-called criteria for this.

1) Influence on progressive rock --  Ever heard of, for one example, gated drum reverb?

2) Location -  This one is obvious.

3) Members of important progressive rock bands - He was in Brand X, right?

4) Timeliness -  In the Air Tonight, 1981.  Prog was dead and turning cold at the time.

5) Integral part of the prog-rock scene - i would be hard pressed to think of someone who did more guest stints.

6) Influenced by progressive rock -  See twosteves post above.

7) Common sense -  If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, what could it be?

Like I said, there is an unwritten rule (as opposed to the written standards above) that says that Phil Collins will never be admitted to Prog Related.  So go ahead and listen to those fine prog acts like Jefferson Airplane, Black Sabbath, and Miles Davis.  And be sure to support Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch when it is time to consider their admission to Prog Related.





Edited by ghost_of_morphy - November 08 2014 at 10:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2014 at 10:19
Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

Originally posted by Rednight Rednight wrote:

Originally posted by AreYouHuman AreYouHuman wrote:

Originally posted by thwok thwok wrote:

I'm not positive if this qualifies as obscure enough, but Phil Collins plays drums on Howard Jones' 80's hit "No One Is To Blame."

That was the second version of the song, and PC drummed and sang harmonies on it.

All less obscure than the fact that Phil Collins (not PC, thank you) once produced Adam Ant, whatever the song was.

This is probably not obscure to most of you, but I just learned that Phil Collins played drums for Led Zeppelin's Live Aid performance at Philadelphia in 1985.  NOW THAT PHIL COLLINS HAD DEFINITIVELY BEEN LINKED TO A BONA FIDE PROGRESSIVE ACT, WHY ARE WE STILL DENYING HIM ENTRY INTO THE PROG RELATED CATEGORY??????
Phil who?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2014 at 11:57
Posted by Easy Livin on Feb 2nd 2007:

Proto-Prog definition

Rock Bands in existence prior to 1969 that influenced the development of progressive rock. The late 60's was a predominately experimental period for music. These bands were moving in a stream that eventually led to prog. The influence could have come from new sophisticated forms of writing and playing music, recording techniques, new instruments and vocal harmonies to name a few. Some of these bands became progressive rock bands themselves others did not.

--------------
The immediate question some will raise is, why is it here at all? The reason we have a proto prog section is that it is the vision of this site that we not only list prog bands, but that we try to show thecomplete picture of prog.
 
Many visitors to the site will not be familiar with prog or how it came about. They will however be familiar with a number of "major" bands who have influenced prog, or been influenced by it. By listing those bands and their albums, we hope to teach people about prog, and get them interested in the real prog bands. It is interesting that we still get members saying "The doors are not prog", "Led Zeppelin are not prog" etc. Of course they are not, that is why they are categorised in non prog genres.
 
Now some members and indeed collaborators may have misgivings about the policy.
What we would ask of our collaborators though is that, when talking about these new additions in the forum, they bear in mind what the policy is, and look at each addition to these categories on that basis. By all means debate whether the policy is right, but it must be said that that is how the owners have styled the site, and it is unlikely there will be a major change in the strategy.
 
This then offers our collaborators a special challenge when reviewing albums by bands in these categories. Your reviews are given priority in the listings, so it important that they help to achieve the goals of the site. There is no point in reviewing a Beatles album and saying "no prog here". Reviews of albums in the proto prog category should attempt to bring out the influences such albums or individual songs had on prog. Are there for example prog bands who used sounds or styles which the Beatles, The Doors etc. pioneered?
 
Likewise, biographies for these bands should focus on the influence the band had, Erik's fine Doors Bio is an excellent example.
 
We need our collaborators (PRs,Collabs and SCs) to understand the proto-prog and Prog related categories; to educate the rest of our membership on why they are here and how to use them. By doing so, you will be helping to make Progarchives the most detailed Prog resource on the net.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2014 at 12:06
Posted by The Truth on Apr 19th 2009:

Gilmour and Mason both released somewhat progressive solo works as well as Page and Plant.

Some of Led Zeppelin was progressive but obviously not most of it.

Phil Collins released nothing progressive in any sense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2014 at 12:08
Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghost_of_morphy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2014 at 16:19
Originally posted by <span style=font-size: 11.8181819915771px; line-height: 15.27272605896px;>The Truth</span> The Truth wrote:


Gilmour and Mason both released somewhat progressive solo works as well as Page and Plant.

Some of Led Zeppelin was progressive but obviously not most of it.

Phil Collins released nothing progressive in any sense.

This guy would disagree with you...

Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

 ...honestly, apart of a bunch of songs on Face Value I don't see other prog things in his solo discography.

I already explained why PC is not on here.  An unwritten rule.  Those whom we shall refer to as "the powers that be" have decided that they don't like his music and therefore will hold him to different standards than the ones they use for other acts and the ones they have published.

BTW, it is what it is.  I still use the site and find it, for the most part, useful.  Just don't try and pretend that PA is consistent, unhypocritical or, for God's sake, authoritative.


Edited by ghost_of_morphy - November 08 2014 at 21:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2014 at 17:21
In relation to PhilCo's CV with dozens and dozens of bands, both Prog and not -
Sax player (and flute) Mel Collins (no relation!) was a very busy sessioner as well.
And of course, Phil solo will NEVER make it to PA, even if his debut album was diverse and a keeper for many Proggers.....
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