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Topic ClosedDefining Prog- The Eternal Question

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AtomicCrimsonRush View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2010 at 07:18
Listening to your music, I feel it fits into the prog genre, though I dont know which prog subgenre yet. Hope to hear an album for review some day.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2010 at 11:02
Upon hearing two tracks, I felt this would probably get into crossover. I don't know if this band was suggested earlier and rejected (and if that may be the motivation for her quasi-rant?).  

You - the OP - have asked a question whether Pink Floyd is prog. I don't know whether you are possibly unaware of them being on the archives or if you have asked how they can be called prog. Either way, with tracks like Interstellar Overdrive, Set Controls to the Heart of the Sun, Saucerful of Secrets and Echoes, they are one of the most important prog rock bands and that they have also released Brick in the Wall does not change this fact in the least. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2010 at 09:47
I belive that Marillion summed it up in one line; "Constantly changing, becoming constant" Big smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2010 at 08:10
The problem with music fanatics is that they are out to vilify the other guys and stand  up for their personal love, elevating its worth (in the eyes of those they assume the ignorant rabble).
So, in their defining of it they make it what they themselves ideally wish it to be, not as it truely is.
They distort/shape it to mirror their own frenzy/fancy/conceit.
Build it up to be something grander and purer than it really is/was.
 
(As in my other post, make it into something which "always progresses" - even though it may not always progress, but merely become exploited.)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2010 at 08:47
If you read many interviews with some of the "Original proggers" like Ian Anderson, Steve Hackett, etc, they don't really think themselves as "Proggers", since when they wrote their music, and I mean back in the day, the term "Progressive Rock" did not existed. As Steve Hackett once mentioned "We were not trying to make progressive music, we were simply trying to write the best music we possibly could". so, if you are doing your best, that's all you need. 

I will definitely check your music out, you have arisen my curiosity.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2010 at 10:48
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

... do not allow a label of convenience ("Prog") to distract your band from recording the music you like making. Leave it to others to then worry about how it should be classified.
Wise words there mate.
I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2011 at 18:38
Wow, I just checked this band out and its not prog at all.  I live in America now, but I grew up in Europe and have followed all the great progressive and metal bands.  The songs here aren't nearly good enough to be classified as progressive or metal.
 
Just my two cents.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2011 at 10:07
A lot of the music I enjoy is defined as prog so from that I accept that I like prog, I let other people define the music and decide if bands should be classed as prog or not as I follow the Genesis line "I know what I like and I like what I know",  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2011 at 06:11
Originally posted by Baggra Baggra wrote:

The problem with music fanatics is that they are out to vilify the other guys and stand  up for their personal love, elevating its worth (in the eyes of those they assume the ignorant rabble).
So, in their defining of it they make it what they themselves ideally wish it to be, not as it truely is.
They distort/shape it to mirror their own frenzy/fancy/conceit.
Build it up to be something grander and purer than it really is/was.
 
(As in my other post, make it into something which "always progresses" - even though it may not always progress, but merely become exploited.)


There is a lot of truth in this but we are in the main not fanatics and would not pretend to know what any artistic phenomenon truly is.

Reductio ad absurdum: music is just vibrating air molecules that hit the timpanic membranes i.e. objectivity in aesthetics is one of the worst delusions we can harbour.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2011 at 06:17
Ah, the age old question!
Now into my second half century on Earth I like to think of myself as musically broad minded, and although I like this site, I try to ignore the preponderance of labels. Who cares whether something is defined as Psychedelic/Space Rock or Fusion or Neo Prog? Musical appreciation is always subjective, and you either think something is "good" or "average" or "bad".
My personal definition of prog has in more recent times been swamped on this site by the sheer number of Metal sub-genres, something I've always found hard to appreciate, particularly those "singers" who have a fondness for gargling with barbed wire. When that guy from Opeth actually sings rather than attempts to turn his throat inside out, I quite like the band, but as soon as a "Gnnnrrrrawghh" is heard I switch off. Like I said, it's all subjective. If it were up to me, all those Metal subgenres should exist on a Metal site, not a Prog one!
 
I like the article writer's last question - are Pink Floyd prog? No they're not, again in my opinion. They were, and practically invented space rock and morphed into stadium rock. The only song of theirs that has a time signature even slightly out of the ordinary I can think of is Money! Still love the band though, but they don't fit my definintion of Prog, which should entail some adventure. Gilmour is a great guitarist, but you could never describe him as adventurous could you?
Beware of the flowers, cos they're gonna get you yet!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2011 at 12:35
To someone asking me... that question ?
I say : "Listen to Whirlwind, of Transatlantic", and you will have an idea of what prog is.
Of course, I agree on the feelings that we have, which vary from day to day, even to include groups or not in "the" category.
Subjective, and it is ok that it is...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2011 at 04:24
Sara

Thanks for your contribution and your thoughts and questions.  Fundamentally, I don't think you'll ever get a fully satisfactory answer.  I like this from Debbie Sears @ Prog Rock Diner Radio.  Her quote comes form the Romantic Warriors DVD released last year:

Progressive music is different things to different people, but to what it is, is music that defies the boundaries of commercial music. People who try different things. Experimenting with music.”

I like this, it's simple and embracing and inclusive.  I don't for an instant suggest this dedinition is all-encompassing, it just works for me, and when people ask (which they do) "What is Prog?",  I tell them this and they can get their heads around it.  To the converted, our church is vast and has wide doors for easy access.  There are statues around about of the many saints who founded our faith, but, I like to believe ours is a living church, otherwise, when the middle-aged pseuds, amongst whom I fiercely and proudly consider myself a card-carrying member, that comprise our congregation die, who will carry the torch?

I echo all of the comments above that mention the fact that musicians should just play what they like to play and hear and I appreciate that marketing the results is never an easy task in a world where any bedroom artist can claim their status as musician, without ever really having earned their stripes in front of a live and apathetic public, but that's another debate.

I listened to your band's music and I respectfully want to say this.  Using Debbie's quotation, I can totally see how Total B.S. could fit under the wings of Prog, there's an inventive compositional aesthetic at work, no doubt.  I think you're right, I imagine you'd most comfortably come under a Prog Fusion banner, just for ease of understanding (Pigeon Holes are useful! - I'd rather pigeon-hole something and absorb it fully at my leisure, than have to go through all of my letters, strewn randomly about the floor every time I wanted to find something).  Having said that, I do think you are appealing to only a very small, very niche market within the Prog community and it would be for you to judge how much effort is worth such potentially small returns.

As for the music itself, Blair is an amazing bassist.  You're a bit bonkers in a Tori Amos or Bjork kind of way.  Is the drumming a machine or a human?  I find the songs a bit chaotic and out of control, but I admire your diversity.  It's certainly adventurous!  Prog on, lady and best of luck with Total B.S.




Whoever Controls Your Eyeballs Rules The World
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2011 at 22:56
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

You - the OP - have asked a question whether Pink Floyd is prog. I don't know whether you are possibly unaware of them being on the archives or if you have asked how they can be called prog.
 
My reference to whether Pink Floyd is prog or not was in reference to all of the articles I've come across since I've been browsing these Prog forums.  I guess you may not be aware there is some question as to whether Pink Floyd is prog or not.   Before I was ever exposed to the whoe 'prog phenomena'... I never thought of Pink Floyd as "Prog"... just one of the greatest bands of all time... My statement was 'tongue in cheek'... since it really makes no difference to me...and them being listed on Prog Archives doesn't add any validity to whether they qualify as Prog or not.  There are plenty of non-Prog bands on this sight so... 
 
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Upon hearing two tracks, I felt this would probably get into crossover. I don't know if this band was suggested earlier and rejected (and if that may be the motivation for her quasi-rant?).
 
The most Prog song on the album is "Following Forward"... if you want to give it a listen  http://www.reverbnation.com/totalbsrocks
BTW... Have we been rejected?  Waaah!! Cry   Actually, I was 'informed' that we may or may not get listed... which surprised me... I hadn't realized it was such an exclusive listing... and from what I read on getting listed, stated by a site administrator who wrote the guidelines for getting listed... he said that there would be controversy with regard to some of the bands listed due to the fact that he was instructed by THE ADMINISTRATION to be 'inclusive' rather than exclusive in an effort to drive more traffic to the site, which... for a genre community that seems to pride itself on it's discriminating taste... I thought that was a bit peculiar  Ermm
Anyway... I appreciate your comments.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2011 at 23:10
Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

As Steve Hackett once mentioned "We were not trying to make progressive music, we were simply trying to write the best music we possibly could". so, if you are doing your best, that's all you need.
 
Thanks!  I definitely feel the same... just trying to make supersonic music!  I get a lot of joy out of it so... this is good! Big smile 

Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

I will definitely check your music out, you have arisen my curiosity.  
Did you ever get to check it out? http://www.reverbnation.com/totalbsrocks
 
Here are a few of our standout tracks
  • Following Forward
  • What It Feels Like
  • For Another Day
  • Total B.S.

I'd love to hear what you think.

 
Sara
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2011 at 23:27
Originally posted by sararocksprog sararocksprog wrote:

I guess you may not be aware there is some question as to whether Pink Floyd is prog or not.   Before I was ever exposed to the whoe 'prog phenomena'... I never thought of Pink Floyd as "Prog"... just one of the greatest bands of all time... 

Actually, no, the question is asked frequently here.  The answer is simple, Pink Floyd had tremendous crossover appeal, so they are remembered much more and by many more as a great CLASSIC ROCK band but they also made enough prog to get considered prog rock on a prog rock website.  That of course doesn't mean all their work was prog.  Incidentally, I didn't think of Pink Floyd as prog either when I started to listen to rock. But while reading their wikipedia page, I came across the word progressive rock which in turn led to Prog Archives and...  Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2011 at 23:32
Originally posted by Cartmen Cartmen wrote:

Wow, I just checked this band out and its not prog at all.  I live in America now, but I grew up in Europe and have followed all the great progressive and metal bands.  The songs here aren't nearly good enough to be classified as progressive or metal.
 
Just my two cents.
"Following Forward" is certainly Prog... if you want to give it a listen  http://www.reverbnation.com/totalbsrocks
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2011 at 23:56
Originally posted by Makntak Makntak wrote:

Having said that, I do think you are appealing to only a very small, very niche market within the Prog community and it would be for you to judge how much effort is worth such potentially small returns.
 
Thanks so much for your comments!  Yeah... we'll keep on trucking... we've found some Total B.S. Heads for sure within the prog community... but we're also finding our audience everywhere... so it's all good.
 
Originally posted by Makntak Makntak wrote:

Is the drumming a machine or a human?
The drums were created on a CAT system which are drum pads that trigger digital sounds... It's a powerful program that you can edit in a myriad of ways to get a real drumset sound. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 08:15
its simple

Prog = not bjork
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2011 at 04:44
^^^LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2011 at 05:50
Originally posted by Xanatos Xanatos wrote:

its simple

Prog = not bjork


Then everything not = bjork = prog - pi?
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