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O666 View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 01 2011 at 12:34
Hi. After these months I joined to PA, I decide to start  the "Djam Karet fan's club"  topic and I have many good reasons for this. DK is a great band. They have too many albums from 80's to 2010. Many of DK's albums are perfect albums. Their music is very original and creative. I found them "Intellectual"  musicians and I can call them "Artist". If you like pure progressive (not Prog Rock) music and if you like serious music, Djam Karet is a good choose for you.
I'm sure there are many DK's fans in PA  and I'm waiting for replys from them. Finally I want to say a big thanks to "Moshkito" for introduced DK to me. I invite Moshkito to write about DK in this topic. Thanks and "HAPPY NEW YEAR".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2011 at 13:45
Just noticed this.  I am a huge fan of Djam.  Big smile

I think within the course of year after getting A Night For Baku, I had bought a copy of everything that was available.

They are one of those bands that you would not get to enjoy were it not for being able to find them through the internet unless you lived in their area.


Edited by Slartibartfast - January 03 2011 at 21:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote O666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2011 at 14:12
I am a huge fan too. The first album that I listened from them was "A Night for Baku". This albums possessed me. After that I tried to found other albums and information about them. I found 8 albums and I shoked. Each of these albums is great. "New Dark Age I and II (Ascencion)" , "Reflections from the Firepool", " The Ritual Continues", " Recollection Harvest" , "The Devouring", "The heavy soul Sessions" and "A Night for Baku". Believe me they are very perfect and great and I enjoy them. In my opinion DK is a real "Progressive" band. They have several specifications that I like them. Originality with Creativity in Artistic form. Maybe some of prog fans find DK boring but I think you must undrestand them and get the point then you enjoy their music so much. Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2011 at 18:09
Hi,
 
Goodness ... I have to find a quick list of their stuff first ... to make sure I say it right.
 
And thx ... and yes, I am on record as saying that the first 4 albums by this band rival KC many times over ... but I am not sure that we can get people to only listen to their inner feeling, not filter things through some kind of progressive filter ... my biggest regret is that the night before the San Francisco Progressive Music Festival in 1999, this band was playing in a club in the City and I was simply too tired from the long drive down I-5 from Portland to make it ... and see them live. I did meet two of their members at that show and have maintained an occasional email conversation with them.
 
And my review of  "Ukab Maerd" is yet upcoming ... as it is, the best album I have heard in the year 2010 ... so much so that I could not get it off the replay button for about 3 hours! My review is not written yet ... because I still have no words for what I am hearing ... but there is one I can mention ... won't give it away yet! (I'm such a tease!)
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2011 at 18:48
Allrighty, the fan club is now up to three members. Big smile

Edited by Slartibartfast - January 03 2011 at 20:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zravkapt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2011 at 18:57
I heard one of their albums once, can't remember what it was called. All I remember was it sorta sounded like 80s Crimson with David Gilmour on guitar instead of Fripp.
 
Anything you guys would recommend?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2011 at 19:12
Originally posted by zravkapt zravkapt wrote:

I heard one of their albums once, can't remember what it was called. All I remember was it sorta sounded like 80s Crimson with David Gilmour on guitar instead of Fripp.
 
Anything you guys would recommend?

There's actually a bit of variety in their catalog, but I have to advocate for A Night For Baku.  If metal is more to your tastes, Burning The Hard City.  Ambient, you can't go wrong by its companion, Suspension And Displacement.


Edited by Slartibartfast - January 03 2011 at 20:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zravkapt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2011 at 19:38
Yeah, I've heard they have a harder side and a more ambient side. The album I heard was definately on the harder side. They are completely instrumental, correct?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2011 at 20:00
I have a few of their albums. What I heard I liked. In deference to this thread I will listen again to refresh my mnemo core.
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2011 at 20:17
Originally posted by zravkapt zravkapt wrote:

Yeah, I've heard they have a harder side and a more ambient side. The album I heard was definately on the harder side. They are completely instrumental, correct?

I am 99% certain.  If there is anything vocal, it's not coming to mind at the moment.

So what are we up to?  Sort of three?


Edited by Slartibartfast - January 03 2011 at 21:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2011 at 21:03
Hi,
 
Ok ... here goes, and this is part of the stuff that I am writing on this band for my book.
 
(Please note that I have cleaned this up since it was first posted, as I thought it was way too bumpy and blurby and needed a little more shampoo!)
 
Sorry that it is long, but I didn't write this for the Cliff Notes generation, the 3 minute society, or the 1 minute orgasm prog fans! I wrote this as only a heart can in describing something that is so large in an area that we do not have enough of in music, today, an era that is more and more working on killing individuality, and experience, in lieu of a social interest and form!
 
The list of albums for this band is from Wiki: (I wish that we would do this here for ALL progressive bands so people don't have to go to Wiki for the information!)
 
No Commercial Potential - 1985
The Ritual Continues - 1987
Kafka's Breakfast - 1988
Reflections From The Firepool - 1989
Suspension & Displacement - 1991
Burning The Hard City - 1991
The Ritual Continues - 1993
Collaborator - 1994
The Devouring - 1997
Still No Commercial Potential - 1998
Live At Orion - 1999
Ascension - 2001
New Dark Age - 2001
A Night for Baku - 2003
Live At NEARfest 2001 - 2004
Recollection Harvest - 2005
The Heavy Soul Sessions - 2010
 
Of the album list, I do not have "Kafka's Breakfast", "Live at Nearfest 2001" or "The Heavy Soul Sessions".
 
Collaborator, is a DK album ... but hardly fits this list  ... and unlike all the other albums, the experimentations on "Collaborator" are out of this world, and almost none of them venture into the rock idiom. Most of it could/might be considered ambient music for the  insanely intelligent that love sitting through this stuff like I do ... to me, this is material that is so visual that sometimes I have no words for it at all ... and this is where "Ukab Maerd" (the new album) also fits.
 
The main issue I have, for a classification like "progressive", is that it thinks that the music has to conform to a format and have keyboards that do this and bass players that do that and guitar players that do such and such and so forth ... and when you do that, you lose the perspective that is available to you called "individuality", and what it means to be "creative".
 
In a maniacally, sociological (or psychologial! or even scatalogical - a la Frank Zappa) society, this means that everything has to be defined and that everyone has to fit into the pot and the mix. It's like the Sociology 101 class at the University, where you are told that you fit into one of those groups on the first day of class ... you are after all, nothing but a number in this world!
 
The problem with a place, or society like that, is that if you have a different t-shirt on, some people are not going to like it ... and you can not succeed when so many people go against it, no matter how hard you try. Some folks have a bigger inner drive and flame and will overcome that ... for most musicians this is extremelly tough, and they do NOT ... they will not be capable of getting past the notes, or find the right soothing chord, or tone ... to simply ... go FEEL each note and let it ride through you and take you for a trip to ...
 
Most rock music stops at that point.
 
And gives you lyrics to make you believe that it is what this or that is all about ... but in the end, lyrics are not necessarily the same visual source as the music ... lyrics are idealistic at best (unless you are listening to Peter Hammill!!!) ... although a guitarist and the other folks in the band will color the "highlight" ... how social of them to do so, right? ... and how un-progressive in terms of experimental music and "progressive music", this is ... it is such a formal thing to do in music, after all!
 
When it comes to the arts and music, what is "different", more often than not, is so, because it needs/wants to make a point. It can also be "different" because it is trying to find something totally separate from everything else that the sociological group tells you that you have to do ... like weird time signatures, ragged guitars, noisy basses, horrible vocalists, lots of effects on the instruments, and of course, the ever present ... gotta have keyboards so you sound like Genesis or ELP to be "progressive".
 
I don't think that we have to worry about that with this band ... if you are looking for a style, or a band that sounds like ?!?! ... this band is not for you, and neither is the music!
 
You will never be able to enjoy Djam Karet, if you are going to look at any of those details listed above or are looking for some music to soothe your thirst for another hero. End of story. If you are not afraid of a "space" inside your mind, where you allow the arts and your living to enjoy unfettered freedom, then you have come to the right place. You will still find a Bass Guitar that does some conventional things now and then, and a guitar that sounds familiar now and then, and what not ... but you are also going to find one thing, specially in the earlier albums, that you do not find in a lot of music today ... outright experimentation based on a sound or a feeling ... and at that moment, it is where this band is its most expressive and phenomenal. It is not afraid to just stay on it and see if they can expand that sound and feeling.
 
In a conversation with Gayle over email he mentioned that KC and Heldon, were their biggest influences. In my book, and I am from Portugal and a part of a literary tradition, this resemblance is ... strange, but in the material that you could say that it sounds like a "jam", you would probably think ... there goes Robert Fripp! ... but honestly? ... I never have! ... I always say ... there goes DK!
 
The music has moments that are "out there" ... and it could easily be said that Gayle turned on the guitar, added 24 and a half effects and then played 3 notes and then sent them to the sequencer when it came back and then he did something else over it and ... voila ... weirdness ... and a far out sound to have fun with.  And then you have 2 choices ... and here is where the good ones get separated from the "progressive" ones ... you create a song around that sound, or you say ... screw it ... and play with the sound for an hour, because that "image" the sound creates is far out and neat -- and worth the experience while on it -- and this to me, is what DK is about.
 
There is one problem ... which comes from The Goons comedy group ... where do you end that story and when ...  unless you unplug everything ... and this is where some of this material sometimes suffers and some bands, where folks have a tendency to find a way to make it sound like a song ... well, convention tells us that it is some sort of end!  And that often hurts the "event" ... it's easier to fade out!
 
Not for me!
 
The experience continues and I can hear it, and I can dream with it all night long ... and yes, it might be your own fantasy or dreams ... but it's there, and I can not deny its existance within me, any more than I can deny Djam Karet had the guts to do this in music, instead of becoming another "progressive" darling!
 
On the good side of things, for most listeners, not all the albums are full frontal assaults on your senses and on occasion they break into some really pretty melodic things that got a friend of mine to say one time about one of the pieces ... that's just like Pink Floyd! ... ok, you got me! ... but one song does not a PF wannabe or copy make! ... and it is a massively well done and defined guitar solo that ... sorry Dave ... I like Gayle's style better!
 
In the end, King Crimson's explorations fit more into the area of "guided meditations" and then cleaning them up with some rehearsal, than they ever did the freedom that Djam Karet shows in some of these pieces ... and even so in the pieces where it appears to be a jam. It maybe similar to the KC style in that they made sure that they knew what the sound/specific/piece was, and then worked to make it better and more enjoyable.
 
It might be my comparing the theater English style of improvisation (very mental process!) versus the theater American style of improvisation which is less mental and more explosive (The Acting Studio) ... and was a very large and important part of the early psychedelia in California ... you turn on the guitar and see where it takes you ... and that new noise ... far out man ... the main difference meaning that California has always been almost totally "experiential" and no one gave any creedence to that work ... and only a handful of groups survived that stoned free for all ... and made it into the next level.
 
So, this "process" was wasted, because no one bothered to record it and learn from it, or place any validity or credibility into the work itself ... well, obviously some bands did, but the progressive groups/boards are not willing to consider these important, but they are to me.
 
And this is where London was smarter, and ... probably more educated when it comes to the arts ... they learned from the experiences and took it further by recording and making sure they were able to gain even more from it ... in California, it was like picking up the girl, and tomorrow she is long gone!  You got the dope you got the lay! And a lot of the music went exactly the same way. Gone. The experience? ... gone!
  
I've scared many friends by saying ... welcome to the church of the electric guitar about Djam Karet, not because it is one of its shining lights, the whole band is, but also because other instruments in the band also go all over the place. In a couple of albums, it becomes an outright jam on a musical theme (or idea -- I'm not one of the musicians) or note or chord ... and to my ear these are not as satisfying as the material that you find in the 3 albums that absolutely show off this band the most for me ... Reflections From The Firepool - 1989 ... Suspension & Displacement - 1991 ... and then Burning The Hard City - 1991.
 
There is only one other artist that I am aware of, that was not afraid to jam and experiment. And not too surprisingly, he is also from the same area as this group ... and his name is everywhere, although most fans do not exactly care for his compositional and organizational side of the music that he created -- they would rather concern themselves with the guitar hero thing! -- and his name was Frank Zappa.
 
The work that Djam Karet does, is not Frank Zappa, it is its own. But the ability to play and learn and specially "flow" on the music, is second to none, so you can see my surprise when these guys said that Richard Pinhas and Robert Fripp/King Crimson were inspirations ... I would say Robert Fripp a lot more than King Crimson myself ... but what the heck ... I'm ok with that. Pinhas' experiments were a lot less thought out, as the French have a way of just saying who cares, when it comes to experiments in music and let it all hang out. Their experimental jazz and other musics in that country are always unique and almost completely off the wall. I never thought of Richard Pinhas, specially Heldon, as a "composed" piece ... specially when none of them appear to be preconceived or pre-set ... and to me, the real greatness is when you can do that on the log house, or bedroom, and then you can translate it to a stage. And they have. And the other monster musician that also did this? ... correct .. Frank Zappa.
 
And this feeling of experience, Djam Karet has done, and to me, this is important and valuable as a group, that makes a difference in music, and is as true to the spirit of the term and what eventually became known as "progressive" ... and my favorite reason of all ... no two albums are the same ... and it's almost like a kid's secret ... give me more weirdness ... it's how much fun, nice and enjoyable this stuff is ... you just let the muse take you away ... and enjoy the trip ... and in the end, you will find that this is what all literature, art, painting, has always hoped to do ... and it is done, right here, and sometimes so clear and bright, that we can't even see it!
 
Their middle period is a bit more rock oriented, and while I like listening to it, I think of it as a bit more "conventional" compared to the other material they have, and while not inferior, I do not have the visions and trips that the other material gives me ... still nice, mind you, but it is not the same thing. And, I have to admit that it is still nice, although on one example, it did feel strictly like a garage jam trying to find out if we're going to be able to get something out of this or not ... and in general, I don't have a problem with these things, except one ... you can't really search for it on the notes alone ... it's the "sound" and the "feel" that give you something, and that is the only secret in music in my book.
 
And what's funny is that they had done this before and still have it, but I suppose that all of us have some dry periods that we have to figure it all out ... only to find later that we can do it again ... and BETTER! And such is the case of Ukab Maerd! Though for me, you can play Dark Clouds, No Rain all night, and I will write an endless poem!


Edited by moshkito - January 27 2011 at 20:41
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2011 at 21:27
You have all that I do. Big smile
I also have an old live VHS that deteriorated after the first play.  I think I bought the last copy they had for sale.  If any of you DK guys read this, please release on DVD. 


Edited by Slartibartfast - January 03 2011 at 21:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2011 at 21:30
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Just noticed this.  I am a huge fan of Djam.  Big smile

They are one of those bands that you would not get to enjoy were it not for being able to find them through the internet unless you lived in their area.
 
I think that more folks in PA and some progressive areas know this band than in LA proper! ... LA usually doesn;t know any bands unless they sell a million so that 3 major stations all go gagagoogoo over it ... it's all a part of tht "star" syndromme.
 
I'm not sure that an experimental band can live off its work on its own in California ... period ... too many "big name" bands are stealing that priviledge from other deserving bands. And California is still mean ... remember that even Frank Zappa had to fight for his rights, and in the end, the family is still not getting enough from the work to even be considered "major" artist ... why? ... it's private, not a commercial product! And California has killed small/private/personal/local business in every way possible for the last 40 years!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Finnforest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2011 at 21:40
I really like The Devouring

This little oddity ain't half bad either...

Djam Karet Ascension New Dark Age Vol. 2 album cover

remember



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2011 at 21:51
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

I really like The Devouring

This little oddity ain't half bad either...

Djam Karet Ascension New Dark Age Vol. 2 album cover

It's so nice that there is still rare stuff available if you get hooked.  I've got an autographed copy of No Commercial Potential.

 Even more interesting is a Dali tribute album they are on:

I actually had these guys in my collection without being totally aware of it for several years before I discovered them. LOL

I got a copy of No Commercial Potential and then noticed this in the booklet art.  My big discovery of the band came from AOL radio and once I heard Baku...


Edited by Slartibartfast - January 03 2011 at 22:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Finnforest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2011 at 21:58
Wow, that Dali thing does look interesting......Shocked

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2011 at 22:00
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Wow, that Dali thing does look interesting......Shocked

Musically speaking it isn't amongst the most interesting DK.  I'd recommend it only if you like and are familiar with some of the other artists.  Or just an extreme DK fan. 

Which reminds me.  There is something I need to attend to this coming weekend:
http://www.high.org/dali/index.html


Edited by Slartibartfast - January 03 2011 at 22:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zravkapt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2011 at 06:47
I did some research and it turns out The Devouring was the album I heard. Is that representative of their heavier sound?
 
I apologize for not being able to be a member of the fan club, but at least my posts are on-topic!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivertree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2011 at 07:05
You can count on me! But don't add me to the inner circle of this exquisite club please. Can't undertake new tasks to whatever extent. Big smile
'Live At Orion' is great ... I've just noticed that I missed to write a review.
oh, and their current album 'The Heavy Soul Sessions' .. . still can't make friends with it .. takes some time I'm sure  Ermm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2011 at 07:15
In terms of heaviness, The Devouring isn't the heaviest but does fairly represent the band's sound.
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