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Genesis vs Renaissance

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Poll Question: who do you like most
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
63 [60.00%]
16 [15.24%]
25 [23.81%]
1 [0.95%]
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symphonicman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote symphonicman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Genesis vs Renaissance
    Posted: August 24 2015 at 19:03
Both.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Disparate Times Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2015 at 02:57
A part of me wanted to go with renaissance but guitar drums and lyrics are in heavy favor of Genesis here but i do adore renaissance so i went with both.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2015 at 13:57
A lop sided poll, but I'll go for both then! Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Michael678 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2015 at 08:04
Genesis BY FAR!!!!!! .......BUT, i'm probably just as interested in Renaissance's music as you are. i listened to their Scheherazade album not long ago and i was impressed. one of these days maybe i'll listen to more of their stuff. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flight123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2015 at 07:05
If you put their 1978 albums head to head, then Renaissance would win - but after that they went the way of many of their prog contemporaries still soldiering on, including Genesis (simplification, pop mush, etc.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imperial Zeppelin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2015 at 07:05
Renaissance
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fudgenuts64 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2015 at 06:50
Both bands are dear to me - I voted both. Genesis is usually favorite, but Renaissance is always second. Few bands have so many albums that are all genuinely good in terms of what I like.

Edited by fudgenuts64 - August 18 2015 at 06:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Shield Stamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2015 at 03:09
Renaissance = pleasant folk rock with proggy elements (I always thought they were like a proggy version of Steeleye Span). Annie Haslam's vocals have that mannered folk style (not unlike Maddy Prior) which I find a little grating over the course of a whole album. In terms of prog rock, they are a minor side-show - interesting, but of little consequence.
Genesis = prog rock brilliance. One of the truly great bands in the history of popular music.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2015 at 23:03
Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HackettFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2015 at 22:55
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

I meant the part about sighting their sights lower more in terms of how progressive their tracks were (or weren't).  While they did use orchestra, a lot of the orchestral interludes were banal or went absolutely nowhere.  Running Hard is exhibit A.  The fact that Annie could easily compensate for the lack of orchestra by vocalising those parts suggests they weren't THAT complex (which is not to say you should try this at home).  If say you compare Dancing with the Moonlit Knight with Running Hard or just about any song off Cards, the instrumental passages on the former are way more interesting.  At least for me they are and I don't think I am alone there, probably even micky would agree.  Ren did finally get more progressive on Novella but again dragged down Can You Hear Me with a very boring interlude.  They got it right on Song for All Seasons but had already begun to introduce a more 'commercial' element in their music.  So in that sense, they lacked ambition compared to Genesis imo.  Even the dreary Wind and Wuthering has some passages of shimmering brilliance.  What is often said in Ren's defence is they were more vocal oriented and hence the instrumental passages were underplayed.  But if that were the case, they wouldn't have been writing 10-12 minute tracks at all and in any case an interesting interlude can support a singer a lot better than a boring one.  Long story short, I don't think they were as talented but played well to their strengths and with the occasional bout of resentment relied on their trump card to carry the day.  

Re consistency, yeah, overall PF were the most consistent and because they had already crossed over in the 70s, they also aged more gracefully.  The worst that can be said about AMOLAD or DB is that they were terribly boring and exceedingly safe by PF standards but they never succumbed to making dated pop music.    Even AMOLAD sounds very pleasant and not too 80s like.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2015 at 22:32
I meant the part about sighting their sights lower more in terms of how progressive their tracks were (or weren't).  While they did use orchestra, a lot of the orchestral interludes were banal or went absolutely nowhere.  Running Hard is exhibit A.  The fact that Annie could easily compensate for the lack of orchestra by vocalising those parts suggests they weren't THAT complex (which is not to say you should try this at home).  If say you compare Dancing with the Moonlit Knight with Running Hard or just about any song off Cards, the instrumental passages on the former are way more interesting.  At least for me they are and I don't think I am alone there, probably even micky would agree.  Ren did finally get more progressive on Novella but again dragged down Can You Hear Me with a very boring interlude.  They got it right on Song for All Seasons but had already begun to introduce a more 'commercial' element in their music.  So in that sense, they lacked ambition compared to Genesis imo.  Even the dreary Wind and Wuthering has some passages of shimmering brilliance.  What is often said in Ren's defence is they were more vocal oriented and hence the instrumental passages were underplayed.  But if that were the case, they wouldn't have been writing 10-12 minute tracks at all and in any case an interesting interlude can support a singer a lot better than a boring one.  Long story short, I don't think they were as talented but played well to their strengths and with the occasional bout of resentment relied on their trump card to carry the day.  

Re consistency, yeah, overall PF were the most consistent and because they had already crossed over in the 70s, they also aged more gracefully.  The worst that can be said about AMOLAD or DB is that they were terribly boring and exceedingly safe by PF standards but they never succumbed to making dated pop music.    Even AMOLAD sounds very pleasant and not too 80s like.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2015 at 22:22
About Renaissance puting their sights lower than Genesis... well I'm not sure, perhaps it depends on the point of view. Conceptually, I guess that's a given (but I don't really care for that, since I don't really like Genesis concepts anyway), on stage theatricallity, that's a given too (but once again, I don't really like Gabriel's concept of theatricallity). As for music, well, Renaissance were certainly softer, but I guess their love for orchestrating their music isn't setting their sights low at all. And about the change of sound from Selling England to The Lamb... I rather dislike The Lamb... there are some songs I do like, of course, but the new sound they got, dropping the long songs with beautiful instrumental passages, it just lost what I did like from the band.

Camel's albums from Mirage to Moonmadness were great indeed. I haven't heard the whole first album, only songs, but it seems to be nice enough too... though I guess not at the same level from those 2. After Moonmadness I lost interest, specially after listening to the songs chosen on a greatest hits album... Lunar Sea I think it was called (for I actually bought it getting confused and wanting to buy Moonmadness)... however, most of the songs presented from after Moonmadness just didn't do it for me, they had just lost their touch... and I understand that many of those songs are actually fan favorites.

About Gentle Giant, I really love their first two albums, and sort of like their next two. After that I lost them. But many like those albums from Power and the Glory and on better, so that might make a good amount of consecutive great albums for them.

However, as I had just stated, for me the one band that really gets my choice for consistency is Pink Floyd, I really like most of what they did, with some albums being really masterpiece class.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2015 at 22:06
^^^  Basically, Renaissance were more consistent within albums.  Not hard when they set their sights quite a bit lower than Genesis and had Annie Haslam to take care of the rest.  I think of you would probably sound incredibly boring with Gabriel's vocals. But Genesis's catalog is deeper and Ivan makes a great point there.  From Trespass all the way to W&W is a long stretch of good-to-great albums.  When the inevitable fall happened, it was steep and swiftly sent Renaissance into ignominy where Genesis adjusted to a pop sound and carried on.  For sheer consistency, maybe only Camel matched or even surpassed them but they barely changed their sound from album to album whereas from SEBTP to Lamb Lies...is quite some journey.  Gentle Giant too were very consistent but far less accessible and bound to polarise listeners with their style.

Edited by rogerthat - August 16 2015 at 22:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2015 at 20:50
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I always said that Renaisance is the most Symphonic of the Symphonic bands, the voice of Annie es marvelous, and Live at CH is beautiful, the rest is good but too sweet sounding for m taste.

Song of Sheherezade is as good as Supper's ready (SR never been a favorite of mine)...But Renaissance mixed terribly weak songs with great ones and let's be honest, after 2 songs I'm bored.

Genesis from Trespass to TLLDOB only recorded ONE weak song (More Fool Me), the rest is simply outstanding, they didn't have a band album from Trespáss to W&W (I like it more than Trick).

Genesis is with Yes the symbol of Symphonic, no other band of the sub-genre will ever get close to them.

So Genesis it is....Ad by far. 




For me, the problem with Genesis is that they always had songs I don't like in their albums... even songs I hate. The closest they got to a perfect album for me is Selling England, and even that one has Epping Forest, which I really dislike. Reniassance, at least in the 3 albums I got (Ashes, Turn of the Cards, ans Sheherazade) don't have any song I dislike as much as many Genesis songs, plus I like Turn of the Cards better than any Genesis album, as a whole. If I put my favourite songs from each band, it becomes really difficult for me to choose which one I like better... perhaps Genesis takes the edge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2015 at 11:03
I always said that Renaisance is the most Symphonic of the Symphonic bands, the voice of Annie es marvelous, and Live at CH is beautiful, the rest is good but too sweet sounding for m taste.

Song of Sheherezade is as good as Supper's ready (SR never been a favorite of mine)...But Renaissance mixed terribly weak songs with great ones and let's be honest, after 2 songs I'm bored.

Genesis from Trespass to TLLDOB only recorded ONE weak song (More Fool Me), the rest is simply outstanding, they didn't have a band album from Trespáss to W&W (I like it more than Trick).

Genesis is with Yes the symbol of Symphonic, no other band of the sub-genre will ever get close to them.

So Genesis it is....Ad by far. 


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - August 16 2015 at 11:05
            
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Svetonio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2015 at 09:32
Genesis by a star mile.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Robson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2015 at 22:03

Something that I can't understand and yet puts me off everytime I come back to any prog forum is this so much hallowed love for Genesis in the prog community.

The only Genesis music that I (very occasionally) still listen to are Afterglow and Los Endos off the 'Seconds Out' show, and for me it's more than enough Genesis, their music sort of expired long ago due to my timeline changes in taste, I can't resonate with it anymore, alas.
 
Renaissance by a thousand miles. It's one of the bands that I still go for when I want to listen to music rooted in a lesser degree to pop or pop rock. 
 


 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2013 at 21:17
Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:

Originally posted by Mirkwood Mirkwood wrote:

Sorry to say this, but the post-beard Phil Collins material is atrocious. Over 95% of it at least.

On the other hand, Renaissance's "Camera Camera" is not bad, quirky 1980s pop, but not bad at all. I haven't heard "Time-Line".
 
Angry  Some of their later stuff is fairly atrocious, however they also did some great prog songs and some great pop songs as well.  Certainly, not over 95% of it.  Maybe about 1/3 is bad. 
 
To answer the poll, as much as I like Renaissance, this one has to go to Genesis. 

I'd probably take even the post-beard Collins material over Camera Camera but as far as Timeline goes, I have no doubt.   One of the worst albums I've heard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Doctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2013 at 09:23
Originally posted by Mirkwood Mirkwood wrote:

Sorry to say this, but the post-beard Phil Collins material is atrocious. Over 95% of it at least.

On the other hand, Renaissance's "Camera Camera" is not bad, quirky 1980s pop, but not bad at all. I haven't heard "Time-Line".
 
Angry  Some of their later stuff is fairly atrocious, however they also did some great prog songs and some great pop songs as well.  Certainly, not over 95% of it.  Maybe about 1/3 is bad. 
 
To answer the poll, as much as I like Renaissance, this one has to go to Genesis. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2013 at 09:21
Big fan of Genesis, including a great deal of Collins era material, but I don't get along too well with Annie Haslam's vocals.
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