Progarchives.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Caravan - First Impressions...
  FAQ FAQ  Forum SearchSearch  Calendar   Register Register  Login Login

Caravan - First Impressions...

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Message
WatcherOfTheSkies88 View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie


Joined: February 22 2010
Location: Hawaii
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 79
Post Options Post Options   Quote WatcherOfTheSkies88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Caravan - First Impressions...
    Posted: February 03 2011 at 16:45
Just started listening to Caravan for the first time. Bought and listened to "If I could do it all over again, I'd do it all over you" and "In the Land of Grey and Pink", and wanted to give my first impressions of what I've heard...

I have to say that I think that "If I Could..." is a much better album than "In The Land...". "If I could..." just seems to have consistently better songs throughout, especially the "For Richard" suite, which is excellent. That song brilliantly weaves between sections with great melodies. Also, the title track is great, along with "And I Wish I Were Stoned", "As I Feel I Die" and the "With an Ear to the Ground" suite.

As far as "In The Land..." goes... I'm not really a fan of "Golf Girl". Also, "Nine Feet Underground" is not one of the best 20+ epics that I've ever heard. The whole suite just seems to not have much flow to it, and a lot of the melodies are not particularly memorable. The 6 minute intro section in particular is kind of boring... it just keeps on going, and doesn't really go anywhere. I did really enjoy the very last section of the song though and I also did really like "Winter Wine". However, overall, I'm surprised that so many people consider "In The Land..." to be their best album.

Thoughts?
Back to Top
Vompatti View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: October 22 2005
Location: Atlantis
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 51500
Post Options Post Options   Quote Vompatti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2011 at 16:50
I haven't heard If I Could . . . but I prefer For Girls . . . to In the Land . . .
Aria ariari isa, vena amiria asaria

DEATH TO TOTALITATARIAIANIMISM! UNBAN SHAKESPEARERARE
Back to Top
The Quiet One View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 15735
Post Options Post Options   Quote The Quiet One Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2011 at 17:05
Thoughts?
 
You should get more Canterbury albums: Hatfield & the North's both albums, Khan's Space Shanty, Picchio dal Pozzo's debut and Caravan's Waterloo Lily, if you like some jazzy/jams in your music.
Back to Top
Prog Geo View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 09 2010
Location: Athens (Greece)
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2313
Post Options Post Options   Quote Prog Geo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2011 at 17:08
Richard Sinclair is great!
Mikael Akerfeldt for fans of Opeth who don't like his growls (and generally the growls): If they don't like it then they are pussies.

Extreme prog metal rules!!!
Back to Top
presdoug View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 24 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5363
Post Options Post Options   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2011 at 17:17
I bought and listened to In The Land Of Grey and Pink, and could not really get into it, and the first track called "Golf Girl" was so bad, well, it ended being a real turn off, and i am not interested in anything else by them.
        Sorry, folks, but that is the experience i had in a nutshell.


Edited by presdoug - February 03 2011 at 17:18
"and what music unites, man should not take apart"--Helmut Koellen                               
Back to Top
zravkapt View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Post Rock Team

Joined: October 12 2010
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2310
Post Options Post Options   Quote zravkapt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2011 at 17:32
I am also surprised that so many consider Grey & Pink to be their best album.
Back to Top
jean-marie View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 27 2010
Location: FRANCE
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2584
Post Options Post Options   Quote jean-marie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2011 at 17:34
as said by vompati for girls who grow is a very good album, you can try cunning stunts wich is a strong album imo though you will not have the richard sinclair voice anymore, and it's good to have a listen to some live records like live at the faifield halls 1974 and uk tour 1975..later releases like blind dog and unauthorised breakfast are very good too. about waterloo lily i don't know ,i like it but the new key player mainly use electric piano and not organ and i miss it in the caravan soundWink
Back to Top
dr prog View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 944
Post Options Post Options   Quote dr prog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2011 at 20:00
Grey and Pink craps all You Wink
Winter wine, In the land of grey and pink and Alias the word are great tracks. Don't think anything on the previous album reach this level


Edited by dr prog - February 03 2011 at 20:00
Back to Top
Padraic View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 29194
Post Options Post Options   Quote Padraic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2011 at 20:03
Originally posted by The Quiet One

 
You should get more Canterbury albums
Back to Top
LinusW View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Italian Prog Specialist

Joined: September 27 2007
Location: Sweden
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10664
Post Options Post Options   Quote LinusW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2011 at 22:01
Originally posted by Vompatti

I haven't  have heard If I Could . . . but I prefer For Girls . . . to In the Land . . .


Yup. That is your next step. Then try some National Health.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Forum Guest Group
Forum Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2011 at 22:49
"In The Land of Gray and Pink" is decent in my view, except for the songs "Love to Love You" and "Golf Girl," which I don't like.  Otherwise, everything else sounds good to my ears.  Its not a masterpiece like many people say, but its pretty solid, and seems like a nice Canterbury gateway drug.  I haven't heard any of Caravan's other albums, though.

I was less impressed with the Soft Machine's "Third" album, which I was excited about and listened to the same day I got the Caravan album, but "Third" just sounded too messy for my tastes.  Caravan does a good job of creating interesting melodies in their best songs, like "Winter Wine."

I find myself gravitating more towards Zeuhl and some of the more esoteric French Prog (Yang and Moving Gelatine Plates) rather than pure Canterbury, but I'm a Canterbury neophyte so I suppose I should give a listen to things like Hatfield And The North at least once before writing off the genre altogether.
Back to Top
Chris S View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6711
Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2011 at 00:56
all good, both are masterpieces :-) but In The land just nailed it!
Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...
Back to Top
Rasvamakkara View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: January 01 2009
Location: Finland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 123
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rasvamakkara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2011 at 04:40
At first I didn't like In the Land of grey and Pink that much either, but now it's actually one of my favourite albums. The main problem was that I just couldn't get into Nine Feet Underground. Then, maybe a year after buying the album, I gave it another chance and absolutely fell in love with it. Something just clicked right that time. Nine Feet Underground is now one of my favourite epics of all time and I listen to it frequently. I also adore Winter Wine and I Don't Know It's Name. The other songs are also a lot of fun. Don't give up on the album completely, it may grow on you with time, it certainly did for me.   
Back to Top
irrelevant View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 07 2010
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10054
Post Options Post Options   Quote irrelevant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2011 at 04:48
I think Grey and Pink is a StarStarStar album.
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5492
Post Options Post Options   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2011 at 15:17
Originally posted by Vompatti

I haven't heard If I Could . . . but I prefer For Girls . . . to In the Land . . .
 
The difference is that when they got to "For Girls", they made a concentrated effort to be more of a solid rock band, instead of a poppygolucky something or other band. Pye has stated that the difference, was the Bass Player who was well versed academically in music and tried to get the band to get tighter and more detailed and rehearsed, than they were before, when some of the music could be said ... just filler in various spots.
 
And the result of that, is one of the best orchestrated albums of all time ... Caravan and the New Sinfonia. Many folks don't seem to like this, but it does show, how symphonic the music design in Caravan really is ... and how well their music fits this kind of thing. Sadly, it is not considered "progressive", when in the end, what they did was one of the gutsiest and toughest things to do ever ... something that rock music was not exactly known for at the time ... which was a level that stood way higher than just popular music, which of course, Caravan showed right away ... this is not a bunch of kids not knowing what they are doing!
 
The earlier you go with Caravan, the more "pop" music it gets. However, they did not exactly let go of the song mentality with pop innuendos, and eventually became very good even for satirizing that style very well -- which was a touch they had from before, which was very Brittish and the Kinks, The Who, and others had indulged in quite well and successfully.
 
In the end, when you listen to 15 of Caravan's albums, the only thing you can say is ... it's very good music, and never mind the "progressive" label or any other silly description, because in the next album they might not be that progressive when they have a different set of musicians with them.
 
I don't think, that a band like Caravan, really had any "musical" aspirations, other than just ... do their thing, and do it well! That they became some sort of a progressive darling is actually weird, because only one or two of the albums would be considered that, by rigid standards of definition. But I seriously doubt that any one of us would not say some very nice things about a group of people ... that were very good musicians, and gave us some incredible music -- that we still remember.
 
One last thing ... that Caravan concert on DVD at Nearfest ... I have to tell you that towards the end I had tears ... because there was so much music of theirs that I have loved for so many years! ... and at that point, you and I could never give a damn if it was whatever it was.
 
It's great music!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
Padraic View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 29194
Post Options Post Options   Quote Padraic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2011 at 15:28
Originally posted by Barking Weasel



I find myself gravitating more towards Zeuhl and some of the more esoteric French Prog (Yang and Moving Gelatine Plates) rather than pure Canterbury, but I'm a Canterbury neophyte so I suppose I should give a listen to things like Hatfield And The North at least once before writing off the genre altogether.

That would be advisable - Hatfield's two albums and National Health's first two are essential.  Caravan (IMO) also has better albums - try If I Could one of these days at the least.
 


Back to Top
daslaf View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 03 2009
Location: Chile
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 290
Post Options Post Options   Quote daslaf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2011 at 16:07
Originally posted by Barking Weasel


I find myself gravitating more towards Zeuhl and some of the more esoteric French Prog (Yang and Moving Gelatine Plates) rather than pure Canterbury, but I'm a Canterbury neophyte so I suppose I should give a listen to things like Hatfield And The North at least once before writing off the genre altogether.

You really should, I'm not an expert on canterbury either, but this is a wide genre and missing bands like Hatfield and the North just because you didn't like Third and Caravan would be a huge mistake... If you like Hatfield & National I recommend you to check out some of Alan Gowen's related bands, and if you're into jazz-fusion, Bruford is a cool mixture of fusion and canterbury...
But now my branches suffer
And my leaves don't bear the glow
They did so long ago
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Forum Guest Group
Forum Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2011 at 16:51
So far, I like everything I'm hearing by Hatfield And The North.  Is it true that they were heavily influenced by Frank Zappa?  If so, that's probably why I like them since I'm also a big fan of Zappa.
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5492
Post Options Post Options   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2011 at 13:45
Hi,
 
I would not say that the Canterbury folks that made up Hatfield and the North and all the other permutations were necessarily Frank Zappa fans. I would prefer to say that they took their music seriously enough, but also decided to keep some of their own humor, which of course was visible in Frank's work ... which kinda helped ... it meant ... we can play serious music and have fun while at it -- instead of the conventional jazz rigor mortis, which Soft Machine had already busted up with the famous ABC's!
 
But Frank and his work was well known in London ... specially since even the likes of John Lennon had spoken highly of it already!


Edited by moshkito - February 15 2011 at 13:46
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
Dick Heath View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Jazz-Rock Specialist

Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12323
Post Options Post Options   Quote Dick Heath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2011 at 07:09
Originally posted by presdoug

first track called "Golf Girl" was so bad,
 
To me one of the reference points of 'Canterbury',  the quirky very English song, sung in English not American.
 
While I have 2 or 3 favourite Caravan albums, If I Could Do.. is way out in front - btw the remastered version is very good.  I've thought for a long time it was the one album by Caravan, that attempted to take on Soft Machine (of immediate post -psychedelic/pre- avant fusion period,e.g. as heard on  Volume 2 and Live At Paradiso), because it is slightly more jazzy than the others. I think, as Robert Wyatt discovered in Matching Mole, that Dave Sinclair was not the best of improvisors and prefered to stick mostly with the rehearsed arrangements - hence limiting Caravan's options in that direction.The premier Canterbury bands that evolve out of Wilde Flowers, Caravan and Soft Machine then musically went on quite different paths -which largely define the boundaries of the Canterbury style of music.
 
Interesting to see Richard Sinclair critically praised for his 'English' jazz singing in the last years - as has Robert Wyatt
The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php
Host by PA's Dick Heath.

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.69
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.172 seconds.