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WatcherOfTheSkies88 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Caravan - First Impressions...
    Posted: February 03 2011 at 16:45
Just started listening to Caravan for the first time. Bought and listened to "If I could do it all over again, I'd do it all over you" and "In the Land of Grey and Pink", and wanted to give my first impressions of what I've heard...

I have to say that I think that "If I Could..." is a much better album than "In The Land...". "If I could..." just seems to have consistently better songs throughout, especially the "For Richard" suite, which is excellent. That song brilliantly weaves between sections with great melodies. Also, the title track is great, along with "And I Wish I Were Stoned", "As I Feel I Die" and the "With an Ear to the Ground" suite.

As far as "In The Land..." goes... I'm not really a fan of "Golf Girl". Also, "Nine Feet Underground" is not one of the best 20+ epics that I've ever heard. The whole suite just seems to not have much flow to it, and a lot of the melodies are not particularly memorable. The 6 minute intro section in particular is kind of boring... it just keeps on going, and doesn't really go anywhere. I did really enjoy the very last section of the song though and I also did really like "Winter Wine". However, overall, I'm surprised that so many people consider "In The Land..." to be their best album.

Thoughts?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2011 at 16:50
I haven't heard If I Could . . . but I prefer For Girls . . . to In the Land . . .
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2011 at 17:05
Thoughts?
 
You should get more Canterbury albums: Hatfield & the North's both albums, Khan's Space Shanty, Picchio dal Pozzo's debut and Caravan's Waterloo Lily, if you like some jazzy/jams in your music.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2011 at 17:08
Richard Sinclair is great!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2011 at 17:17
I bought and listened to In The Land Of Grey and Pink, and could not really get into it, and the first track called "Golf Girl" was so bad, well, it ended being a real turn off, and i am not interested in anything else by them.
        Sorry, folks, but that is the experience i had in a nutshell.


Edited by presdoug - February 03 2011 at 17:18
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2011 at 17:32
I am also surprised that so many consider Grey & Pink to be their best album.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2011 at 17:34
as said by vompati for girls who grow is a very good album, you can try cunning stunts wich is a strong album imo though you will not have the richard sinclair voice anymore, and it's good to have a listen to some live records like live at the faifield halls 1974 and uk tour 1975..later releases like blind dog and unauthorised breakfast are very good too. about waterloo lily i don't know ,i like it but the new key player mainly use electric piano and not organ and i miss it in the caravan soundWink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2011 at 20:00
Grey and Pink craps all You Wink
Winter wine, In the land of grey and pink and Alias the word are great tracks. Don't think anything on the previous album reach this level


Edited by dr prog - February 03 2011 at 20:00
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2011 at 20:03
Originally posted by The Quiet One The Quiet One wrote:

 
You should get more Canterbury albums
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2011 at 22:01
Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

I haven't  have heard If I Could . . . but I prefer For Girls . . . to In the Land . . .


Yup. That is your next step. Then try some National Health.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2011 at 22:49
"In The Land of Gray and Pink" is decent in my view, except for the songs "Love to Love You" and "Golf Girl," which I don't like.  Otherwise, everything else sounds good to my ears.  Its not a masterpiece like many people say, but its pretty solid, and seems like a nice Canterbury gateway drug.  I haven't heard any of Caravan's other albums, though.

I was less impressed with the Soft Machine's "Third" album, which I was excited about and listened to the same day I got the Caravan album, but "Third" just sounded too messy for my tastes.  Caravan does a good job of creating interesting melodies in their best songs, like "Winter Wine."

I find myself gravitating more towards Zeuhl and some of the more esoteric French Prog (Yang and Moving Gelatine Plates) rather than pure Canterbury, but I'm a Canterbury neophyte so I suppose I should give a listen to things like Hatfield And The North at least once before writing off the genre altogether.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2011 at 00:56
all good, both are masterpieces :-) but In The land just nailed it!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2011 at 04:40
At first I didn't like In the Land of grey and Pink that much either, but now it's actually one of my favourite albums. The main problem was that I just couldn't get into Nine Feet Underground. Then, maybe a year after buying the album, I gave it another chance and absolutely fell in love with it. Something just clicked right that time. Nine Feet Underground is now one of my favourite epics of all time and I listen to it frequently. I also adore Winter Wine and I Don't Know It's Name. The other songs are also a lot of fun. Don't give up on the album completely, it may grow on you with time, it certainly did for me.   
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2011 at 04:48
I think Grey and Pink is a StarStarStar album.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2011 at 15:17
Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

I haven't heard If I Could . . . but I prefer For Girls . . . to In the Land . . .
 
The difference is that when they got to "For Girls", they made a concentrated effort to be more of a solid rock band, instead of a poppygolucky something or other band. Pye has stated that the difference, was the Bass Player who was well versed academically in music and tried to get the band to get tighter and more detailed and rehearsed, than they were before, when some of the music could be said ... just filler in various spots.
 
And the result of that, is one of the best orchestrated albums of all time ... Caravan and the New Sinfonia. Many folks don't seem to like this, but it does show, how symphonic the music design in Caravan really is ... and how well their music fits this kind of thing. Sadly, it is not considered "progressive", when in the end, what they did was one of the gutsiest and toughest things to do ever ... something that rock music was not exactly known for at the time ... which was a level that stood way higher than just popular music, which of course, Caravan showed right away ... this is not a bunch of kids not knowing what they are doing!
 
The earlier you go with Caravan, the more "pop" music it gets. However, they did not exactly let go of the song mentality with pop innuendos, and eventually became very good even for satirizing that style very well -- which was a touch they had from before, which was very Brittish and the Kinks, The Who, and others had indulged in quite well and successfully.
 
In the end, when you listen to 15 of Caravan's albums, the only thing you can say is ... it's very good music, and never mind the "progressive" label or any other silly description, because in the next album they might not be that progressive when they have a different set of musicians with them.
 
I don't think, that a band like Caravan, really had any "musical" aspirations, other than just ... do their thing, and do it well! That they became some sort of a progressive darling is actually weird, because only one or two of the albums would be considered that, by rigid standards of definition. But I seriously doubt that any one of us would not say some very nice things about a group of people ... that were very good musicians, and gave us some incredible music -- that we still remember.
 
One last thing ... that Caravan concert on DVD at Nearfest ... I have to tell you that towards the end I had tears ... because there was so much music of theirs that I have loved for so many years! ... and at that point, you and I could never give a damn if it was whatever it was.
 
It's great music!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2011 at 15:28
Originally posted by Barking Weasel Barking Weasel wrote:



I find myself gravitating more towards Zeuhl and some of the more esoteric French Prog (Yang and Moving Gelatine Plates) rather than pure Canterbury, but I'm a Canterbury neophyte so I suppose I should give a listen to things like Hatfield And The North at least once before writing off the genre altogether.

That would be advisable - Hatfield's two albums and National Health's first two are essential.  Caravan (IMO) also has better albums - try If I Could one of these days at the least.
 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2011 at 16:07
Originally posted by Barking Weasel Barking Weasel wrote:


I find myself gravitating more towards Zeuhl and some of the more esoteric French Prog (Yang and Moving Gelatine Plates) rather than pure Canterbury, but I'm a Canterbury neophyte so I suppose I should give a listen to things like Hatfield And The North at least once before writing off the genre altogether.

You really should, I'm not an expert on canterbury either, but this is a wide genre and missing bands like Hatfield and the North just because you didn't like Third and Caravan would be a huge mistake... If you like Hatfield & National I recommend you to check out some of Alan Gowen's related bands, and if you're into jazz-fusion, Bruford is a cool mixture of fusion and canterbury...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2011 at 16:51
So far, I like everything I'm hearing by Hatfield And The North.  Is it true that they were heavily influenced by Frank Zappa?  If so, that's probably why I like them since I'm also a big fan of Zappa.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2011 at 13:45
Hi,
 
I would not say that the Canterbury folks that made up Hatfield and the North and all the other permutations were necessarily Frank Zappa fans. I would prefer to say that they took their music seriously enough, but also decided to keep some of their own humor, which of course was visible in Frank's work ... which kinda helped ... it meant ... we can play serious music and have fun while at it -- instead of the conventional jazz rigor mortis, which Soft Machine had already busted up with the famous ABC's!
 
But Frank and his work was well known in London ... specially since even the likes of John Lennon had spoken highly of it already!


Edited by moshkito - February 15 2011 at 13:46
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2011 at 07:09
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

first track called "Golf Girl" was so bad,
 
To me one of the reference points of 'Canterbury',  the quirky very English song, sung in English not American.
 
While I have 2 or 3 favourite Caravan albums, If I Could Do.. is way out in front - btw the remastered version is very good.  I've thought for a long time it was the one album by Caravan, that attempted to take on Soft Machine (of immediate post -psychedelic/pre- avant fusion period,e.g. as heard on  Volume 2 and Live At Paradiso), because it is slightly more jazzy than the others. I think, as Robert Wyatt discovered in Matching Mole, that Dave Sinclair was not the best of improvisors and prefered to stick mostly with the rehearsed arrangements - hence limiting Caravan's options in that direction.The premier Canterbury bands that evolve out of Wilde Flowers, Caravan and Soft Machine then musically went on quite different paths -which largely define the boundaries of the Canterbury style of music.
 
Interesting to see Richard Sinclair critically praised for his 'English' jazz singing in the last years - as has Robert Wyatt
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