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Proletariat 
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 Topic: Math-Pop bands for Crossover
Posted: February 03 2011 at 19:00 |
Scanning through the Post/Math section of the site I noticed a certain lack of Math-Pop bands which make up a good chunk of contemporary Math-Rock. I can easily see how the Post/Math team may not have found them up to the general standard what with their more poppy less technical aproach which is why I think they may be perfect candidates for Crossover. Here are some bands in the style I would like to suggest. (and discuss)
Minus the Bear
This Town Needs Guns
Marnie Stern
Foals
Globes
Some of these bands are better candidates for inclusion than others but I think they all have a shot!
Also I don't want to limit this thread to just these bands or just to discussing their inclusion, so feel free to suggest other related bands or to discuss other Math-Pop type bands already on this site like Maps and Atlases, Tera Melos, or Battles.
Also I am aware that Math-Pop is a dubious genre as all the bands are not directly related in sound or style. I am simply using it as an umbrella term relating to the trend of non-inclusion whitch I have noticed.
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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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harmonium.ro
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Posted: February 04 2011 at 06:44 |
I see your point about a possible particular style/scene, but the bands you mention are different enough to require different suggestions. Marnie Stern is IMO as far as possible from what I'd call progressive. Minus The Bear and Fang Island were evaluated and rejected (for Post Rock and Crossover and respectively for Math Rock and Crossover). Maps And Atlases are on PA but they were added in 2007, based on their debut EP which was more "prog". If you look on the EP's reviews you will see that someone even wonders whether the band is going to become a fully progressive one or an indie one  RE Foals I've heard the recent album and while they employ the math-rock sound on some of the pieces, the pieces themselves didn't sound like PA material to my ears. I'll ask David from the Math Rock team for his opinion, anyway.
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Proletariat
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Joined: March 30 2007
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Posted: February 04 2011 at 09:38 |
Harmonium, I understand that the math rock team does not see these bands as being fully math rock... however I am more than a little bit dissapointed and confused. Sure, they are not dissonant but they do have complex structures and playing styles. In my opinion the use of melody only adds to the level of prog credentials after all the greats of the 70s all had hummable melodys. I don't see how Minus the Bear isn't math rocks equivalent of Supertramp. I feel like Math/Post is evaluating bands based on steriotypes that have become outdated in regards to math rock. the style is changing and becoming more poppy bands like 65daysofstatic and Maps and Atlases are adapting to this trend, and its not a bad thing.
Maps and Atlases latest release is in my opinion their best even though it is the least classically math rock, check my review (which is the only one) to see my justifications of this opinion if you want.
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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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harmonium.ro
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Posted: February 04 2011 at 09:54 |
All I said was personal opinion and does not involve the Math Rock team, of which I am not a part. They might have a different opinion, which is why I notified them. Also, I'm a fan of this scene and my comments were not at all negative. I checked out Maps And Atlases when Perch Patchwork got out exactly because of your review, and I have to thank you for that  As to how PA works, the idea is that when a band is both progressive and doing something that's structurally accessible and melodic sounding, it should be in Crossover. The guys in the X-over team are not fans of the indie scene though, which sometimes leads to dead ends for worthy bands.
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Evolver
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Posted: February 04 2011 at 10:59 |
 harmonium.ro wrote:
. The guys in the X-over team are not fans of the indie scene though, which sometimes leads to dead ends for worthy bands.
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Hey! I resemble that remark!
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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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harmonium.ro
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Posted: February 04 2011 at 11:02 |
You're the new guy, Scott, that isn't pointed at you. You're my inside man 
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Henry Plainview
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Posted: February 04 2011 at 11:15 |
I already got shot down by David on Zach Hill solo and Marnie Stern, so...yeah.
harmonium.ro wrote:
Marnie Stern is IMO as far as possible from what I'd call progressive. |
How so? I don't mind her not being here but she's hardly straightforward indie rock.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Proletariat
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Joined: March 30 2007
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Points: 1882
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Posted: February 04 2011 at 13:56 |
harmonium.ro wrote:
All I said was personal opinion and does not involve the Math Rock team, of which I am not a part. They might have a different opinion, which is why I notified them. Also, I'm a fan of this scene and my comments were not at all negative. I checked out Maps And Atlases when Perch Patchwork got out exactly because of your review, and I have to thank you for that
As to how PA works, the idea is that when a band is both progressive and doing something that's structurally accessible and melodic sounding, it should be in Crossover. The guys in the X-over team are not fans of the indie scene though, which sometimes leads to dead ends for worthy bands.
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I did not mean for my remark to be pointed at you, im sorry if i offended you. I was venting (to you not at you) my frustration with the post/math and xover teams... rereading my post i see i didn't make that clear.
How did Deerhoof find a way into xover they are blatantly indie-prog (and awsome) i assume it was chamberry's doing? now that hes gone who is the supporter of the indy scene nowadays who I can go to with this stuff
Edited by Proletariat - February 04 2011 at 13:58
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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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harmonium.ro
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Posted: February 04 2011 at 14:10 |
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Not offended at all, I just thought you might think I have a say because I'm in the Post Rock team - but there are two different teams for Post and Math.
There is indie and indie... The Pure Reason Revolution / Pineapple Thief / PT / Muse side of indie is well accepted now around here, but other sides are not. And it actually is difficult to make sense out of such a diverse scene.
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harmonium.ro
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Posted: February 04 2011 at 14:11 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
harmonium.ro wrote:
Marnie Stern is IMO as far as possible from what I'd call progressive. |
How so? I don't mind her not being here but she's hardly straightforward indie rock.
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I agree, but that doesn't make her progressive either.
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Padraic
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Posted: February 04 2011 at 14:14 |
harmonium.ro wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
harmonium.ro wrote:
Marnie Stern is IMO as far as possible from what I'd call progressive. |
How so? I don't mind her not being here but she's hardly straightforward indie rock.
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I agree, but that doesn't make her progressive either.
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I think Henry's "bone to pick" was your claim that she was "as far as possible from" progressive.
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Proletariat
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Points: 1882
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Posted: February 04 2011 at 14:19 |
harmonium.ro wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
harmonium.ro wrote:
Marnie Stern is IMO as far as possible from what I'd call progressive. |
How so? I don't mind her not being here but she's hardly straightforward indie rock. |
I agree, but that doesn't make her progressive either.
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virtuistc playng odd time signatures unique stylings?
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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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harmonium.ro
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Posted: February 04 2011 at 14:24 |
Ah, I see. I was expressing a purely personal reaction I had to her music/sound, which I tried to signal with the two mentions of my subjectivity, but I agree my words can be read as an attempt for an objective assesment. I also wouldn't mind seeing her here, even though I perceive her sound as very far from what I consider PA worthy.
Edited by harmonium.ro - February 04 2011 at 14:28
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Atavachron
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Posted: February 09 2011 at 18:48 |
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okay-- Proletariat: as I have not heard any of the five bands you mention in your original post, I cannot say with confidence they would or would not be eligible for addition to Mathrock. As for the 'Math-pop' scene per se, I think at this time it would be a hard sell for inclusion, as the bands do neither true mathrock (by that I mean in tone and style, not just content) nor progressive pop (whatever that is). I do appreciate your argument, though, and it's possible one day some of these artist will be seriously considered. On that note, if you'd like to post a link here to some samples you think are convincing, I'll gladly have a listen.
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Proletariat
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Posted: February 09 2011 at 18:57 |
Atavachron wrote:
okay-- Proletariat: as I have not heard any of the five bands you mention in your original post, I cannot say with confidence they would or would not be eligible for addition to Mathrock. As for the 'Math-pop' scene per se, I think at this time it would be a hard sell for inclusion, as the bands do neither true mathrock (by that I mean in tone and style, not just content) nor progressive pop (whatever that is). I do appreciate your argument, though, and it's possible one day some of these artist will be seriously considered. On that note, if you'd like to post a link here to some samples you think are convincing, I'll gladly have a listen.
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I would say that many of the bands are firmly rooted in the math rock scene (maybe not Minus the Bear so much as the others) but with already included bands like Tera Melos and Maps and Atlases adopting more and more characteristics of Math Pop I feel like they might have a place.
Also I feel like the inclusion of Deerhoof in crossover sort of paves the way for their inclusion under that subgenre.
gonna post some Youtube vids now! 
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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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Proletariat
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Joined: March 30 2007
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Posted: February 09 2011 at 19:12 |
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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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Atavachron
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Posted: February 09 2011 at 19:36 |
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I see what you're thinking, some of these bands do have prog/pop approach, here's my eval. ;
Minus the Bear definitely not Mathrock, a possibility for Crossover
This Town Needs Guns cut 'Rabbit' closer to math, but on the balance from the two tracks, I would say No for mathrock
Marnie Sterns No
Foals the most professional of the lot and very good, the question is are they Mathrock and from these two, I'd say assuredly not (I wouldn't be surprised to hear those songs on indie radio).
Each of these artists have talent, but the bands on PA that have a point of reference to them aren't normally used to qualify other bands with similarities. If harmonium.ro (Alex) thinks any of these should be referred to Crossover, I'm sure he'll do that. But thank you Ryan, and sorry for any disappointment, but who knows maybe you'll see one of them on the site someday.
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Proletariat
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Joined: March 30 2007
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Posted: February 09 2011 at 19:49 |
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don't worry, im not dissapointed. Ive suggested some 15 or 20 bands to this site and seen maybe two get added in a decent amount of time and maybe 4 or 5 take years. i simply thought "hey, these are generally considered math rock by the indie scene" so I thought I would suggest them. Obviously the whole thing is subjective and I have no faith in the teams on this site having my same opininion. That being sayed I am aparently in the minority of people who use PA as a resourse who would even care about this particular scene and I understand that it does sit only on the very fringe of progressive.
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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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Proletariat
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Joined: March 30 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1882
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Posted: February 09 2011 at 19:51 |
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In the end it comes down to the fact that on PA it is easyer to stand with one foot in metal and prog than one foot in indie and prog even though both genres have equal amounts of crossover apeal. And the fact that the different teams on this site have different opinions and make clear that they do. especially in regards to crossover which I have seen refferred to by colaborators as "not prog" while members with less noteriety like myself often see it as not being inclusive enough. Who knew that revamping the genres would lead to such turbulance.
Edited by Proletariat - February 09 2011 at 19:55
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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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Atavachron
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Posted: February 09 2011 at 20:05 |
and yet that turbulence is what keeps things, for the most part, balanced and checked .. ah the joys of divided government 
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Math-Pop bands for Crossover