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The Krautrock Space

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The Wrinkler View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Wrinkler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2011 at 16:13
thellama,

I have not heard Cluster 71 yet, so I'm jealous. I do love Zuckerzeit, and sometimes when I'm brave enough I'll put on Cluster II.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AtomicCrimsonRush Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2011 at 23:56
For those who have not heard it
 
Here's the best of Krautrock
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Truth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2011 at 00:02
Silly ACR, the best krautrock is this:
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Wrinkler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2011 at 00:56
After a long day of work and school, I feel the urge for some major relaxation. How does one relax? Well, let's just say my way of relaxation is the California way Wink. Next, I look for a chill album to relax too. I usually turn to CAN's Future Days when I'm looking for that chill mood. But tonight... I think it's Brainticket. This is to the long days at work!



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paravion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2011 at 04:04
Originally posted by The Wrinkler The Wrinkler wrote:

thellama,

I have not heard Cluster 71 yet, so I'm jealous. I do love Zuckerzeit, and sometimes when I'm brave enough I'll put on Cluster II.

..and when even braver - you'd might enjoy Cluster 71. Thellama is right - it's a fantastic album - but still, I think I like Klopfzeichen (Kluster 1969) the most. The religious/political (naive socialism mixed with mysterious semi-religious aspects) spoken words on side one are actually great, despite Schnitzler's sentiments "If you don't understand the German words, it sounds better. [...] If you know what it means, you'll find it terrible." The sloooow echoing of primitive electronics and rough production and the mysterious text makes this my favourite K(c)luster album - but they are all great!


Anyway, - not to neglect the folksy side of Krautrock - let's have a walk in the park with Emtidi!


Emtidi - Saat (1972)
It doesn't get much better - fantastic cosmic production by "den fantastischen Mann am Mischpult" Dieter Dirks  - multi-tracked guitars, phased keys and trippy electronics - a beautiful cosmic trek.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2011 at 13:49
Hi,
 
A couple of the softer and far out things ... Tanned Leather and Cherubin ... both bands always had some very nice things in the albums, and specially Cherubin's album is worth having ... and that little train song is excellent.
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2011 at 00:38
Hi, 

Finally got a chance to see that documentary on Krautrock and here are some observations.

The first one is the crappy lousy sound on the 6th piece that is out of sync and totally screwed up ... and it goes off track and just about David Bowie, who has never really acknowledged the musicians or the influences. Eno, at least, did a few things with Cluster, but went his own way.

Love the start of the whole thing with Popol Vuh in the background, and immediately making the connection to film (though it does not mention theater at all, which it should have!), which I have always said was very important, and the three folks that helped cement this scene, were Fassbender, Wenders and Herzog. Fassbender's films are a bit tougher to deal with, and they are not known for using music much, but they have a sense of new-ness and open mindedness that is very similar to a lot of the Krautrock material ... you don't always get a resolution that is satisfactory, but you know that ... this is it, this is life, this is what happens ... and that's that. Wenders is, sometimes, a philosopher looking for his philosophy. And he tries to color his ideas with music and has done so very well over the years. And Herzog, of course, made all kinds of films using Popol Vuh's music, and I like the interview that Archie Patterson allowed PA to post, showing how Werner found the music "in the closet" and probably went out and created a film around it! ... that is his style, and he did the same thing with Klaus Kinsky, it seems, let him run loose until it all explodes ... and voila ... you have an amazing something. For all you "prog'rs", if you have the chance, do see "Aguirre, the Wrath of God" and see how the music was so well used and defined ... and that opening shot is one of the most memorable ever in film.

Next is "the revolution", and I have always said how important it was, and how vivid it was, ALSO, in London and how much music it gave us, including King Crimson's first album (my review of it here on PA), and a lot of stuff in America that is not considered a part of it all, but is. For example, in one of the Faust albums, there is quite a discussion and mention of Frank Zappa and his work ... and he figures in a lot of the bands like Amon Duul 2, specially. And my kudos, is ... using Jimi ... right away ... awesome ... totally important and valuable, and amazing ... and you must remember ... this was a Bob Dylan song! ... 

I also mentioned once, in an article here and in the Cakewalk board, that got some folks upset, that a lot of the work and definition of the music that was being created was trying very hard to not follow or define itself by "Anglo-American" styles and definitions of music, and I always thought that was very important to the process, despite some people preferring to think that drugs were what helped it and defined it. I doubt that some folks could be that creative instantly, and do something that we still love dearly, if they did not have something to say and express, which showed and came up in the music. 

Fabulous and neat is the Zodiac stuff and seeing Edgar talking about it. Totally lovely, and far out to hear Roedelius and Rother and Moebius, and saying nice things about it. I have a lot of these solo albums and have always loved them, and thought that there was a logic and something else in these that ... was not totally visible here, and these images and interviews helps clear it up. These guys might not have known of each other, but they still worked together and did things together.

One other idea, and it has to do with the "creation of music", was that the words used were ... music created by non-musicians, and this was probably the way in the early days, for example, of the communes when people just joined in and added to the whole thing. And right away, you get Edgar Froese talking about the wars and total destruction and the fact that people lost everything ... and "no form", or "free form" was all that was left. That is a very nice wording and really helped define a lot of the work that was done ... people basically discovering themselves and their art by experimenting and learning what music could be, for example, and Faust is good about this, and playing around with the cement mixer is an excellent example ... try to get that exercise going at the Cakewalk board and see where it gets you ... yeah !!!

One other bit, and I had never really thought about it with Can, was the so called minimalism, all of a sudden being defined as "monotonous" in drumming, and his saying that "the old had to be destroyed, and we didn't want to play rock'n'roll" ... and in the end, it showed how well he used his "minimalism" when doing Bel Air, or side two of Soon Over Babballoma, when the long cuts extend and he uses the simplest of touches for transitions, and it shows how much drumming you can do with so little ... a lesson that now I would like to extend to the many "progressive" drummers that simply can not maintain a piece of music without the 4th beat on the snare drum ...

All in all a fabulous program, and it was magnificent to see those folks and them talking about it, and especially Klaus Schulze and Edgar Froese ... both of whom probably can tell you more about the music, the history and it's development ... and there even is a story on the net about Edgar and his tapes, that used to be used for echo effects in those days ... the stories of which would make up for a most fascinating and entertaining book.

If there is a miss here, and it should have been included in the earlier stuff, is that Guru Guru was a part of a lot of these demonstrations and another group and commune altogether, and the stories Mani has, as well as Helmut are quite entertaining, and the last song on the "Tango Fango" album is such a monumental piece, and after you see these 6 parts, go listen to that song ... it will make sense ... it will help ... the new music is rock music, not the old stuff. And guess what this special was about.

A similar special could easily be done about London, and it's "progressive" scene, but it would take a David Lean, or a John Schlesinger, or a Ken Russell (to bring out the dolls to laugh at us, of course!), to be able to show us, what the scene was like in London with the IRA bombs going off, and anti-VietNam war protests going around ... and a Buffalo Springfield song as a theme, that was echoed later with many other things questioning our political sense and sensibilities (In the Court of the Crimson King) and later how we looked at many things (The Endless Enigma), all of which showed how we were looking at things, and also ignoring them. Yes' Tales of Topographic Oceans, for me, was trying to take all this "revolution" into a more spiritual place, and then Genesis, by comparison, had a rather complex take on English this and that (opening lines of Selling England By The Pound) and then "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" pretty much showing how we had become so isolated from it all ... and in the end, it's just rock'n'roll ... 

You decide!

Lovely work ... absolutely tops!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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The Wrinkler View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Wrinkler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2011 at 01:20
Wow, thanks again for putting something cool up Paravion, nice to hear new Krautrock band suggestions. Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Wrinkler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2011 at 01:23
Moskito,
I agree with you, fun documentary to watch, but where's the love for Guru Guru? They don't have much live performance of Guru Guru, but this one is pretty cool Smile.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oliverstoned Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2011 at 01:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2011 at 10:24

It appears that the link is either broke, or incorrect. 

Thx ... gotta have all these links, you know ... 

Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2011 at 10:41
Originally posted by The Wrinkler The Wrinkler wrote:

Moskito,
I agree with you, fun documentary to watch, but where's the love for Guru Guru? They don't have much live performance of Guru Guru, but this one is pretty cool Smile.

After seeing all this, now go listen to that last song on "Tango Fango" ... everyone of the folks here ... and see the commentary about "the new music". And mark the date this was done, which was BEFORE the Wall came down!

Guru Guru, is a "major" in this discussion, not a secondary band. Kraftwerk became the biggest because it took its own work and turned it into pop music ... not necessarily because it was the most creative, or original.

I am coming to think that one of the main reasons why a lot of this music did not "succeed", is because many of them don't really talk about it ... it's very rare to hear Klaus talk about that time, and you can also hear him talk to Steven Wilson about it, in the Rheingold DVD with Lisa Garrard. Edgar, doesn't like interviews and (sometimes) I think that he is becoming a bit of an old stooge that doesn't care for the business or the whole thing ... I think he is really more worried about what will happen if he takes this fork and sticks it into this piece of music ... and how to show that with the instruments and sounds. But he has millions of stories and has a sense of humor that is out there, and can come off rather obtuse, weird, and nasty. His words on Chris Franke, could be said to not be nice, but I think that he is saying that in good jest, not because he wants to be mean. 

The rock music journalism, is the problem here. They are, for the most part, too much into the "star" and into the "fame", which happens to be the very same image that we were all fighting against in those days (The Endless Enigma), but too many people are afraid to speak out and be themselves, instead thinking that a green t-shirt is what makes them different, or themselves, but still saying the same thing within the commercial/corporate structure of things. And of course, when KC/Fripp say "Deconstruct" ... we don't get it, and go back to saying how important the band is based on a couple of albums and ignoring the rest of the material.

Reviews, are the same for me. I can not write the same thing as everyone, because that is not what I see. I try to be faithful to that inner sight, vision, and thoughts that I was privy to, when this music was available. I can not say that 35 years later that experience is not valid, IT IS, but the TIME, that it took place, when no one else was "getting it", is very important, despite some folks still going around saying ... so what ... like Snow Dog usually does on many of my posts ... which is ok with me ... keeps me in line, and I don't mind!

But many of us knew at the time, what the "struggle" and identification was all about, artistically, or otherwise, and I think that many of us do not mind discussing it and showing it better, specially since all of a sudden it is starting to come off as a very important and expressive artistic era, which the rock press doesn't give a sh*t about! It doesn't have stars to kiss up to. And sometimes, too many of the "kids" in this board, do the same thing ... eventually they will learn, but most of them will never see, or have, events this massive question ... "who are you?" ... to yourself and your generation ... and this is what is missing from the discussion of "progressive" music, and how, in many ways, the "krautrock" thing is way more important than the London version, which was mostly "reactive" to the situations at hand ... and I personally believe that music is probably the single greatest peace weapon of all ... and even U2 deserves credit in that area.
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zravkapt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2011 at 10:56
Brainticket - Egyptian Kings (1974):
 
 
Brave New World - Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta (1972):
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oliverstoned Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2011 at 11:28
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eB-sl6ZLpo

Edited by oliverstoned - March 03 2011 at 11:33
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2011 at 13:16
Hi,
 
Just heard a bit more of the Dies Irae thing, and ... ohhh my gawd ... Fillmore West is alive and well and ... still heard ... after all these years!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vibrationbaby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2011 at 13:49
I Interviewed Rainer Wahlmann the lead singer of Dies Irae for PA last October. Although we talked mostly about his current band, Green Wave, we also talked about early Krautrock and a bit about the making of the "Trip"  video.  "Trip"  appears on their only studio album "First" from '71. A live version of "Trip" can be heard on a 1992 reunion CD called Make Ends Meet that also features 4 unreleased studio tracks and a couple of bizarre Christmas tracks!.

The interview is here : www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69247



Edited by Vibrationbaby - March 03 2011 at 13:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Wrinkler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2011 at 03:47
It's a late Thursday night, and I just found a Klaus Schulze album. His second album, Cyborg. Haven't heard this yet.

Wish me luck...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2011 at 14:17
Originally posted by The Wrinkler The Wrinkler wrote:

It's a late Thursday night, and I just found a Klaus Schulze album. His second album, Cyborg. Haven't heard this yet.

Wish me luck...

 
A tough one in my book ... because it is so much about ... where does the sound itself take you? ... and that is something that is hard for many people, that rely on lyrics to get somewhere ... in listening to Klaus, there is no road sign telling you where to go, or do ... and this is its beauty ... and he's still the best at it, and the only one that is still doing it, and the day he goes, will be a sad day for music ... no one out there, has been able to do what he does, and work with it to create another new experience.
 
I used to say that there is music that leads you, and then there is music that allows you to "lead yourself" ... music for "adepts" ... and this is what Klaus does for you. Later, he did play around with some sound effects, but they are merely catalysts that tend to throw you off ... (Beyond Recall) ... or you can listen to Sebastian in Traum (Audentity) and the sound that is like a door opening and closing, is almost like ... taking you somewhere else ... and it is exciting as heck ... the feeling of allowing your mind to go ... anywhere and everywhere at the same time, is magnificent and very difficult to top all around ... there is very little music anywhere, in this world, that is that good, at doing something like this.
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote akamaisondufromage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2011 at 14:32
 
 
 
Someone else posted this recently on another thread and I am indebted to that person (I can't remember who it was so sorry and a big thanks)
 
I love it.  But I love Can and AD and Faust and Guru Guru and if you count them Tangerine Dream (I do count them).
 
and Kraftwerk.......
 
 
 
 


Edited by akamaisondufromage - March 04 2011 at 14:49
Help me I'm falling!
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The Wrinkler View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Wrinkler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2011 at 16:27
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by The Wrinkler The Wrinkler wrote:

It's a late Thursday night, and I just found a Klaus Schulze album. His second album, Cyborg. Haven't heard this yet.

Wish me luck...

 
A tough one in my book ... because it is so much about ... where does the sound itself take you? ... and that is something that is hard for many people, that rely on lyrics to get somewhere ... in listening to Klaus, there is no road sign telling you where to go, or do ... and this is its beauty ... and he's still the best at it, and the only one that is still doing it, and the day he goes, will be a sad day for music ... no one out there, has been able to do what he does, and work with it to create another new experience.
 
I used to say that there is music that leads you, and then there is music that allows you to "lead yourself" ... music for "adepts" ... and this is what Klaus does for you. Later, he did play around with some sound effects, but they are merely catalysts that tend to throw you off ... (Beyond Recall) ... or you can listen to Sebastian in Traum (Audentity) and the sound that is like a door opening and closing, is almost like ... taking you somewhere else ... and it is exciting as heck ... the feeling of allowing your mind to go ... anywhere and everywhere at the same time, is magnificent and very difficult to top all around ... there is very little music anywhere, in this world, that is that good, at doing something like this.


It really was a tough album, I felt myself getting lost, not even knowing how long I've been listening to a certain song, or what track I'm on. I feel like it's one of those albums that you don't put on to listen to for fun, but just to see where it takes you. Thankfully, I got out fine and in once piece Smile
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