VdGG vs Jethro Tull - Progressive Rock Music Forum

A one note gimmick band with an eccentric gimmicky frontman.

How is this even a close vote?

By the way, David Jackson is the superior flautist. Ian Anderson is the flute equivalent of Michael Angelo Batio. Tasteless and overly flashy for flashiness sake. David Jackson's flute parts are far more tasteful and beautiful.

Don't think so. Those 5 songs in the 70s that jackson played flute must have been amazingly good pieces of flute playing

A one note gimmick band with an eccentric gimmicky frontman.

Influential to whom? The group of zealots on this forum who have actually heard of them? The little band of Canterbury groupies who actually wasted their allowances to buy their albums in the 70s? They could have really used your help back when it mattered. Hell, their record company even gave up on them.

"A one note gimmick band"? Tull explored a vaster array of music, from blues to jazz to hard rock to progressive to folk. And guess what? They actually sold albums -- millions of them -- because Ian Anderson composed songs that a wide cross-section of people loved. I know you're shocked, but yes there are those who enjoy listening to songs that don't meander all over hell with singing that would give an opera director a nervous twitch -- perhaps even a stroke. VdGG in large enough doses can cause anything from eczema to grand mall seizures in AD/HD patients.

Harry Hood wrote:

How is this even a close vote?

Well, considering this forum has the highest concentration of VdGG fans in the world, I am sure all fifty will vote for their band.

Harry Hood wrote:

By the way, David Jackson is the superior flautist. Ian Anderson is the flute equivalent of Michael Angelo Batio. Tasteless and overly flashy for flashiness sake. David Jackson's flute parts are far more tasteful and beautiful.

By the way, Ian Anderson is also a master acoustic guitarist, a damn good blues harpist, not to mention adept at mandolin, mandocello, saxophone and bass guitar. As far as David Jackson, is he still working as a school teacher in order to make ends meet when he can't find a gig? Whatever.

Well, considering this forum has the highest concentration of VdGG fans in the world, I am sure all fifty will vote for their band.

Show me them please. I khow about 6 or 8 the - rest just prefer VdGG to JT and they are not real fans(

A one note gimmick band with an eccentric gimmicky frontman.

Influential to whom? The group of zealots on this forum who have actually heard of them?

You're so far off that it's amazing. I don't know how old you are, but when hipper-that-thou media critics and frightenly fashionable punks were making fun of bands like Jethro Tull, ELP, and Yes, Van der Graaf Generator and Hammill were (along with King Crimson) the bands it was "okay" to like. Love punk or hate it, it's a very respected genre (much more so than prog) and some of the heaviest players are VdGG fanatics and have acknowledged VdGG's influence: Johnny Rotten, Jello Biafra (Dead Kennedys), Mark E. Smith (The Fall), Don Bolles (The Germs), the Dead Milkmen, and several others. Peter Hammill's Nadir's Big Chance (recorded in '74) was a big influence on the punk movement and still sounds fresh today; I could never imagine Ian Anderson making this album.

Since VdGG's reformation in '05, they've gotten astonishing press from several mainstream British rock mags (and newspapers ranging from the London Times, which called them Britain's Velvet Underground in that they didn't sell millions of records, but had an astonishing influence on a wide array of musicians, to The Independent). Mojo has ran several positive pieces on VdGG, Uncut ran a nice long article calling VdGG "the coolest, strangest band in prog," Guitar & Bass (which is the British equivalent of America's Guitar Player, which also ran a lengthy Hammill/VdGG article recently) did a nice article, and The Wire (which would probably never do an article on ELP or Gentle Giant) did a huge piece on PH/VdGG recently. Even Rolling Stone in the U.S. gave Present a good review. There are several others but you get the drift. Classic Rock Magazine (and not the prog edition) listed Hammill among their 50 British Icons of Rock. And Mojo recently had Hammill present an award at their annual awards dinner (the Emcee gave PH a wonderful, reverent introduction and the audience, which included Jimmy Page, Roger Daltry, Harry Shearer, Emmy Lou Harris, and literally hundreds more, burst into applause).

NPR broadcasted a segment of All Things Considered recently dedicated to Hammill/VdGG where it was stated that VdGG was the one prog band that 'got it right.' I don't necessarily agree with that, but...

People influenced by the band (and I've interviewed several of these people and have uncovered more to interview for the second VdGG book) include best-selling authors (Ian Rankin, Michel Faber), record producers (Hugh Padgham, Tchad Blake, George Martin [who told me he loved VdGG's version of Theme One], Jack Endino [Nirvana, Soundgarden, etc]), movie directors (Jonathan Demme, Anthony Minghella, Vincent Gallo), and tons of musicians: Nels Cline (Wilco), John Frusciante (Red Hot Chili Peppers), Graham Coxon (Blur), Simon Gallup (The Cure), Julian Cope, Bruce Dickinson (Iron Maiden), Marc Almond (Soft Cell), Colin Newman (Wire), Gary Lucas (Beefheart's Magic Band), Chris Carter (Throbbing Gristle), Ivan Krall (Patti Smith Group), Jon Langford (Mekons, Waco Brothers), Guy Severs (Univers Zero), Geddy Lee (Rush), Thighpaulsandra (Spiritualized), Stephen Morris (New Order, Joy Division), and These New Puritans. There are tons more

Many of these are artists who claim to not like prog, but like VdGG (which I think is good for prog overall; Gary Lucas told me that Pawn Hearts gave credibility to the words 'progressive rock').

I flew to Europe several times since '05 to see and hang out with the band. It's astonishing how different it is there from here in the U.S. The band was playing 1,500 - 3,000 seat arenas and doing well in them (again, it's not the new Dallas stadium but it's respectable enough). And even on their one and only U.S. tour two years ago, they played several shows in front of 400 people or so (and thousands in Canada).

Even if you or your friends don't know much about them (I know a lot of people who believe that prog is only Tull, Yes, ELP, Genesis, and Crimson... and believe that anything else must just be real obscure if they haven't heard it), you're way off the mark about VdGG's massive influence.

Seriously, though, you're from Michigan. VdGG never played the States in their heyday* so you (if you were even old enough) probably would think that no one but fifty people on this forum like them. But they're probably one of the most respected of the prog acts (though not most successful) in terms of the journalists and many musicians.

As far as their record company giving up on them, I don't know what you mean. Charisma never gave up on them. In fact they were Tony Stratton Smith's favorite band. Genesis were his most successful, but they took a back seat to VdGG as far as Strat's faves were concerned.

Virgin/EMI was only a two record deal and VdGG didn't want to renew it (with the lack of promotion for Trisector, I don't blame them; Virgin/EMI did do a great job with Present, though)

*They played one concert at NYC's Beacon Theater on October 18, 1976, a sold out show in front of over 2,000 rabid VdGG fanatics. It was at this concert where reps from Mercury Records, VdGG's U.S. label, showed up backstage wanting to congratulate the band. In a legendary move, and one that only adds to the Stratton Smith lore (!), Strat accosted the Mercury reps, calling them every name in the book at the top of his lungs because of their lack of support for VdGG in the States. After that, no more Mercury for VdGG!

but in this poll, i go with the 'progressive' criteria, and vdgg seems to explore it a bit deeper. at least that's the way i think it is right now.

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Poll Question: ????????????????????????????
Poll Choice	Votes	Poll Statistics
Van der Graaf Generator	71	[50.35%]
Jethro Tull	70	[49.65%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted