Progarchives.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Music vs lyrics
  FAQ FAQ  Forum SearchSearch  Calendar   Register Register  Login Login

Music vs lyrics

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 8>
Author
Message
krimson62 View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie


Joined: April 18 2006
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 95
Post Options Post Options   Quote krimson62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Music vs lyrics
    Posted: April 20 2011 at 13:52
I've just listened to The Lamb... after 30 years of having it stored away. Absulutely amazing. New textures, soundscapes that i never noticed 30 years ago (or  maybe i didn't notice it at the time) Mind you, this is on a vinyl record  not a remixed, remastered cd, so this is the same"object"  i heard way back. The lyrics in prog though can be quite silly compared to the music itself. 30 years from now i'm sure that the music will still be amazing but the lyrics, for most part will trivialize the art  

Edited by krimson62 - April 20 2011 at 13:54
Back to Top
Progarchives.com
Advertisement
Sponsored links (registered users, log in to remove)
 
caretaker View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 19 2010
Location: united states
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 282
Post Options Post Options   Quote caretaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2011 at 16:17
Personally, I am interested in the lyrics but they aren't crucial to my enjoyment of the music. As long as they are performed well and complement the music.
Back to Top
Slartibartfast View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 26011
Post Options Post Options   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2011 at 16:36
Originally posted by krimson62

I've just listened to The Lamb... after 30 years of having it stored away. Absulutely amazing. New textures, soundscapes that i never noticed 30 years ago (or  maybe i didn't notice it at the time) Mind you, this is on a vinyl record  not a remixed, remastered cd, so this is the same"object"  i heard way back. The lyrics in prog though can be quite silly compared to the music itself. 30 years from now i'm sure that the music will still be amazing but the lyrics, for most part will trivialize the art  
30 years???  What the hell is the matter with you???  You are hereby sentenced to listen to Whodunnit repeated over and over again.

But seriously, if you are referring to most prog lyrics or the Lamb in particular, I don't see it.  When the lyrics are silly it is because that is what the artist intended.
Back to Top
let prog reign View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 11 2010
Location: South Carolina
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 256
Post Options Post Options   Quote let prog reign Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2011 at 17:38
The lyrics are silly but that's certainly no reason to hate the music. And besides it's better than singing about boats n hoes. LOL

Other classic progressive rock artists have great lyricism. Like King Crimson (specifically ITCOTCK) or Van Der Graaf Generator. And look at Pink Floyd! Amazing.
Once upon a time there was some writing on the wall we all ignored, until the time that there was war and feasts of famine at our door
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4462
Post Options Post Options   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2011 at 20:43
Hi,
 
I never thought that the "lyrics" had anything to do with "progressive" or wether a piece of music was good or bad.
 
It's about the totality of the work, and the integration of the work.
 
I don't think that "The Lamb" can be done without lyrics ... parts of the music are way too vivid, and the lyrics help us go there, and make more sense of it all than otherwise, but then, I can not sit here and tell you ... that Tales from Topographic Oceans is better, or worse, without the lyrics .... I don't think that it is as good without the lyrics and I like listening to the passion and dedication that Jon Anderson put into this ... that has made it such a spetacular piece of work all these years.
 
We don't sit here and say we don;t like Beethoven or Brahams or anyone else, because they did not have lyrics !!! ... we can sit here and say that we like "The Lamb" better with Peter and "Tales" better with Jon ... but this is because they were the originators fo the work ... is Beethoven's 9th any worse because all of a sudden it has some "lyrics" in a choir?
 
I never separate the totality of the work, and this is the reason why "songs" don't usually make it for me as "progressive" because the talent margin between one type of work, and the other is immense ... and sometimes we're too stuck on our demands, not what someone has done ... and if we don't like Peter Hammill's voice, no concept will ever work in his music regardless! ... even if it is Gog and Magog!
 
To me, the voice is a part of the whole -- another instrument ... which is the reason why sometimes I really don't like to hear discussions about singers and why someone doesn't like Labrie or something else ... because all of a sudden it is not about the music and its totality ... it's about that one person's preferences!
 
Now go back and listen to "Passion Play" ... and then "Tales of Topographic Oceans" .... and then "A Tab in the Ocean" ... and then ... there are many very special things out there that defined that time and place that can't be done today ... because we're so damn commercialized that we can not appreciate the little things that make it good.
 
I tell you what helped me 36 years ago ... getting a good stereo and speakers (ESS AMT-1 Heils) ... because all of a sudden Deep Purple and Rolling Stones sounded like crap ... but Tangerine Dream? Pink Floyd? ... Krautrock? ... yeah ... now you know!


Edited by moshkito - April 20 2011 at 20:49
Some old holy curmudgeon said from his holy trinity of a chapala ... none of the hits, none of the time ... is always better sex for your and your lover!

www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
rogerthat View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member

VIP Member

Joined: September 03 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4695
Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2011 at 20:49
I don't know about lyrics trivializing art but I don't pay that much attention to lyrics to come to any such conclusion because for me, it's first and foremost about the music.  Some of the best music I have heard were written for essentially dumb love songs and if I am supposed to berate that on account of lyrics, I will do no such thing and furthermore think such an approach is being needlessly close minded. If the music speaks to you, you don't need lyrics to tell you what it means. 
Back to Top
colorofmoney91 View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: March 16 2008
Location: Biosphere
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 22837
Post Options Post Options   Quote colorofmoney91 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2011 at 23:02
I'd have to say that the actual music is my main point of interest. I've always preferred instrumental music anyway. Some vocalists tend to be supremely annoying, such as Peter Hammill and Peter Gabriel, which makes me totally not care at all what they have to say in their lyrics.
Back to Top
NotAProghead View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: October 22 2005
Location: Russia
Online Status: Online
Posts: 3382
Post Options Post Options   Quote NotAProghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2011 at 23:31
I like books with pictures. Some writers are quite annoying, so if there are pictures I don't care much about words. LOL
Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
Back to Top
friso View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: October 24 2007
Location: Netherlands
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1764
Post Options Post Options   Quote friso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2011 at 01:42
I like some conceptual thinking in my music. I want a layer of meaning when it comes to composition and lyrics can provide that (as well as atmospheric composition, clever concepts or titles that actually mean something).
Back to Top
prog4evr View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 22 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1182
Post Options Post Options   Quote prog4evr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2011 at 17:32
I also like concept ideas in prog.  That is why I love Fish-era Marillion.  But, in general, if something about the music doesn't stimulate me, then I probably will not be into that particular band...
"Read some Kerouac and it put me on the track to burn a little brighter now..." (Marillion)
Back to Top
The Truth View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: April 19 2009
Location: At the Farms
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 20254
Post Options Post Options   Quote The Truth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2011 at 17:43

The lyrics in The Lamb are fine, very surrealistic and excellent.

/thread.
Back to Top
Slaughternalia View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 17 2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 896
Post Options Post Options   Quote Slaughternalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2011 at 17:44
Good lyrics are always nice, but I can look past bad lyrics such as ELP or Yes. The music is what really counts.
Back to Top
Hoipolloi View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 24 2011
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 215
Post Options Post Options   Quote Hoipolloi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2011 at 00:49
A classic example of this is Van der Graaf Generator.  I find the lyrics that are written in most of their songs are very "complex" and "dark."  But that's what makes VDGG an excellent Prog band.  Their music might be a little crazy at times, but it complements the lyrics to which the artist intended. 
You have to think of the style of the band before stating whether or not they are purely a "musical" or "lyrical" sounding band. Either or shouldn't bog down a proper Prog band.
Back to Top
MoodyRush View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 04 2011
Location: Here Be Llamas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 381
Post Options Post Options   Quote MoodyRush Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2011 at 19:27
For the most part, I listen to the music over the lyrics. Now that I  listen to some foreign language stuff (PFM, Magma) with lyrics not even in my tongue, the music is the primary focus for my attention. Though if the band is one I truly admire, I will search their lyrics to discover what they're singing about, for a good song is made better by good complementing lyrics.
Follow me down to the valley below.
Moonlight is bleeding from out of your soul.
-Lazarus
Back to Top
Ozexpat View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie
Avatar

Joined: February 09 2009
Location: UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 55
Post Options Post Options   Quote Ozexpat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2011 at 22:38
The human voice is just another instrument and providing it makes pleasant noises that suit the rest of the band, then all is good. Lyrics are just another part of it. Do you need lyrics ? No. Do they add to the overall performance ? Yes they can. 
 
Not using lyrics never held Thys Van Leer back, did it ?
And for a moment when our world had filled the skies, Magic turned our eyes,
To feast on the treasure set for our strange device
Back to Top
NotAProghead View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: October 22 2005
Location: Russia
Online Status: Online
Posts: 3382
Post Options Post Options   Quote NotAProghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2011 at 23:31
Originally posted by Ozexpat

The human voice is just another instrument and providing it makes pleasant noises that suit the rest of the band, then all is good. Lyrics are just another part of it. 

If pleasant voice in my native language sings mediocre bullsh*t I say goodbye to singer, no matter how good music is. Though in case of other languages I agree, voice is just another instrument. 
Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
Back to Top
Gerinski View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Belgium
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2134
Post Options Post Options   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2011 at 02:33
I personally like the concept and lyrics of The Lamb. And a proof that they are interesting is that people are still arguing about their meaning.
 
And indeed you should be punished for not listening to The Lamb for 30 years... LOL
Back to Top
yanch View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 03 2010
Location: Lowell, MA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3242
Post Options Post Options   Quote yanch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2011 at 06:37
I do enjoy good lyrics and lyrics that make me think, such as TAAB, APP, Pink Floyd, and Fish era Marillion. However, lyrics don't have to be great or thought-provoking to make a song work. There are a lot of bands whose lyrics are not great, but fit the melody and the entire song, which is also very enjoyable. As mentioned above, good lyrics are nice but not always critical to a song or bands success.
Back to Top
Snow Dog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 32913
Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2011 at 06:47
Originally posted by The Truth

The lyrics in The Lamb are fine, very surrealistic and excellent.

/thread.

Thumbs Up

But on another note I don't buy into the notion that the voice is a musical instrument.
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
Back to Top
clarkpegasus4001 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 13 2011
Location: Nottingham
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 602
Post Options Post Options   Quote clarkpegasus4001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2011 at 07:36
Originally posted by caretaker

Personally, I am interested in the lyrics but they aren't crucial to my enjoyment of the music. As long as they are performed well and complement the music.



My sentiments exactly
Tony C.
http://www.inforthekill.webeden.co.uk/
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 8>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.69
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.703 seconds.