Music vs lyrics

Originally posted by MoodyRush Originally posted by Snow Dog But on another note I don't buy into the notion that the voice is a musical instrument.   In what regard do you mean voice is not an instrument?   Obviously, the voice has pitch, so it's an instrument in that regard, but likely you have another meaning to your connotation of "musical instrument". For an example of voice strictly as an instrument, To Be Over (by Yes) has chanting over the outro. No lyrics are intelligible to my ear, but I love that section and the vocal effect used there.

I never listen to the lyrics. to the point that I'll know the word but never put them together in my head. me and my girlfriend were looking for a song for our wedding and she made me realise how sad is the music that I listen too.

Originally posted by krimson62 I've just listened to The Lamb... after 30 years of having it stored away. Absulutely amazing. New textures, soundscapes that i never noticed 30 years ago (or  maybe i didn't notice it at the time) Mind you, this is on a vinyl record  not a remixed, remastered cd, so this is the same"object"  i heard way back. The lyrics in prog though can be quite silly compared to the music itself. 30 years from now i'm sure that the music will still be amazing but the lyrics, for most part will trivialize the art

Originally posted by prog4evr I also like concept ideas in prog.  That is why I love Fish-era Marillion.  But, in general, if something about the music doesn't stimulate me, then I probably will not be into that particular band...

me too

But a great singer can lift average-to-good songs and make them great because the listener relates more to the human voice than instruments. It is a more human element after all.  Even with the human voice, words are not absolutely necessary but very few singers have the skill to emote in an appealing way on vocalisations, so the singer is better off with words.  And as a wannabe (W capitalized) singer, I find that simple but poignant lyrics that convey the message aptly make the singer's job a lot easier. It's an unenviable task to sing Jon Anderson-like lyrics (well, nobody asked him to, one could argue).  Words tell the singer how to attack the song and good lyrics supply the spots to be emphasised more and so on.  Good lyrics for a singer though would be a little different from what a listener would understand as good (i.e. profound, intellectual, poetic, blah blah).   

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Originally posted by thehallway Lyrics are for explaining what is too complex to get across with music alone..... I have to take the contrary position on that one.  Instrumental music can express things that are too complex for lyrics to convey.

Originally posted by Alitare Originally posted by Slartibartfast Originally posted by thehallway Lyrics are for explaining what is too complex to get across with music alone..... I have to take the contrary position on that one.  Instrumental music can express things that are too complex for lyrics to convey. I'm going to have to take the middle-road stance. I agree with both. Whatever makes the music more emotionally impacting, I say. Be lyrically profound, be instrumentally touching, be subtle, be overtly impacting, be smart, be diverse, be sensitive and...whahableblee.

I understand Slarti's point but I think it's more to do with the whole "a picture says a thousand words" concept, only with sound! Music without words certainly has this quality..... but I don't think it's a matter of complexity...... more of beauty. 

For example, people have captured the great sense of terror and sadness of the holocaust with wordless music..... probably on a level that words themselves wouldn't be artistic enough to convey........ but if someone had the challenge of actually documenting the events of the holocaust through song (unlikely I know) then this would clearly only be achievable with lyrics. How could you tell someone all the details without using words?

Perhaps what I'm saying is that sometimes lyrics are the best way to get a message across, and that in these instances, it is usually because the artist wants to say something complex...... about an event or a person maybe, rather than a mere mood or an emotion.

But lets take it a step further: If you're Jon Anderson and you have lost your voice...... how could you express "Craving penetrations offer links with the self instructor's sharp and tender love, as we look to the air, a picture of distance..." with a guitar?! (I guess it makes so little sense that it wouldn't make much difference...... but you get my point).

The music is the more important. You could sing silly or non-sensical lyrics, but sing them Beautifully (Yes)

Given that lyrics and the voice are two different things, I feel that both can play a significant role, though they aren't necessarily needed. Albums like Mastodon's "Crack the Skye," or even The Ocean's "Heliocentric" and "Anthropocentric," explore some fascinating concepts lyrically, and I feel that those sort of lyrics definitely add to the song.

As for vocals, something like "Heart Attack In a Lay By" by Porcupine Tree, towards the end when Steven has the two voices interlaced singing two different parts, absolutely beautiful.

Of course, there are some pretty over-the-top silly lyrics out there, but if they were changed to some awesome lyrics that explore an interesting concept, would that make the song better? Personally, I'd say it definitely enhances and plays a role in the song.


Edited by Platocrates - August 18 2011 at 00:25

In my opinion, a song becomes truly powerful when the meaning of its lyrics is reflected in the music in some way (or vice versa). And I am not simply talking about sadness/minor key and happiness/major key relationship here. It seems to be especially true for concept albums where the band tells a story (lyrics) and paints a world to contribute to it (music). Listen to PT's Voyage 34 and you'll see how this combination almost makes you feel what the main character is going through. So lyrics are very important, and if they are silly or without any deeper meaning to it, it can ruin the song for me.