Music vs lyrics

Lyrics CAN improve my appreciation of a song but not take away from it (as in, poor lyrics).  And in both cases, the music must first be to my liking, lyrics only enhances this a little bit more.  If I don't like a piece so much without the lyrics, their being very good won't change my opinion of it significantly.  There are many Bob Dylan songs whose lyrics I like but hardly ever listen to the songs because it's not the kind of music I like.

Originally posted by Platocrates Given that lyrics and the voice are two different things, I feel that both have can play a significant role, though they aren't necessarily needed. Albums like Mastodon's "Crack the Skye," or even The Ocean's "Heliocentric" and "Anthropocentric," explore some fascinating concepts lyrically, and I feel that those sort of lyrics definitely add to the song. As for vocals, something like "Heart Attack In a Lay By" by Porcupine Tree, towards the end when Steven has the two voices interlaced singing two different parts, absolutely beautiful. Of course, there are some pretty over-the-top silly lyrics out there, but if they were changed to some awesome lyrics that explore an interesting concept, would that make the song better? Personally, I'd say it definitely enhances and plays a role in the song.

these post pretty much sums what I think...

To me the most important part is the music, but if the lyrics are great then it's even better.

Edited by jav1919 - August 17 2011 at 22:53

Originally posted by krimson62 I've just listened to The Lamb... after 30 years of having it stored away. Absulutely amazing. New textures, soundscapes that i never noticed 30 years ago (or  maybe i didn't notice it at the time) Mind you, this is on a vinyl record  not a remixed, remastered cd, so this is the same"object"  i heard way back. The lyrics in prog though can be quite silly compared to the music itself. 30 years from now i'm sure that the music will still be amazing but the lyrics, for most part will trivialize the art

The Lamb has definitely passed the test of time. Something old can still be something new.

some bands, even prog bands rely on their lyrics above all else (Decemberists) and I don't mind that, I love folk punk and pop (lyrical genres) as well as classical, prog and jazz (generally less lyrical genres)

It's quite simple: banal lyrics can and often do sink songs; however, clever and intelligent lyrics never hurt a song . On the contrary, they only improve it.

Originally posted by rogerthat Well, I don't even need to get to the lyrics with regard to that example, the singing will do the job ( I hope you get my point).

i get your drift :-)
and i agree that the quality of the singing is key for my enjoyment of a song. they don't have to be technically brilliant, but they do have to hit the notes. Even more important is that their phrasing and delivery fit with the tone of the song. that`s where DT fall down sometimes .

I think sometimes we separate music from lyrics too much.  It's important to remember that lyrics aren't something separate from the music, but an integral part of the music itself.  Sure, you could argue that lyrics are different because poetry can be an art form by itself, but I like to think of lyrics almost like an instrument in the song; just like you can have a solo guitar or piano piece, you can also have "solo lyrics," which constitutes poetry.  If you think of it that way, it makes sense that you can still write a good song with mediocre lyrics, because lyrics aren't a separate influence on the song but an integral part of the music. So a listener can overlook poor lyrics just as he might overlook one element of the music he doesn't like; for example, someone who dislikes growls overlooking them in order to appreciate the music behind them.  And just as a great guitar line can elevate a lukewarm song and make it great, excellent lyrics can add a whole lot to an otherwise not-so-special piece of music.  

Since the vast majority of the prog I listen to has lyrics in a language I don't understand, the lyrics mean almost nothing to me.  It's all about the music.

Now the *singing* is a big part of the music, and the vocals can be a wonderful and integral part of the sound.  The Italian vocals for me are just another instrument in the mix, for better or worse. 

But the lyrics themselves?  Really don't care much.  If the lyrics are in my language, sure it's nice if they happen to be good but it doesn't much matter.  If I want great reading I'll open a book, not a cd booklet. 

Originally posted by krimson62 I've just listened to The Lamb... after 30 years of having it stored away. Absulutely amazing. New textures, soundscapes that i never noticed 30 years ago (or  maybe i didn't notice it at the time) Mind you, this is on a vinyl record  not a remixed, remastered cd, so this is the same"object"  i heard way back. The lyrics in prog though can be quite silly compared to the music itself. 30 years from now i'm sure that the music will still be amazing but the lyrics, for most part will trivialize the art

While I agree that the lyrics sometimes can make a song worse, or even destroy it completely, I absolutely disagree when it comes to The Lamb. Gabriel has deliberately written it into a specific tradition called dream visions. Gabriel has mentioned The Pilgrim’s Progress as an inspiration (personally I find The Lamb much more interesting than Bunyan’s overly religious and moralistic book). Nevertheless, I suspect that he tries to hide the fact that Dante’s Divina Commedia was just as important to him.

If you try to analyse (and not only interpret) The Lamb, you’ll find a highly original narrative structure. The sleeve story has one narrator, and the songs have another. The first one is very subjective while the second one tries to be "objective". In addition you have Rael telling the story himself, and a few lines sung by other characters. Rael is a subterranian or "chthonic" character: When we first meet him, he emerges from the subway, and he’s pretty soon transported to another subterranean realm (you might call it a kind of hell). In that respect he’s related to Odysseus, Aeneas and Dante. In a way he’s even related to Alice.

There are several dichotomies at play in the text, the most obvious being in/out, self/other and male/female. Each of them is deconstructed during the "opera", ending with Rael and John turning out to be identical. This makes The Lamb a truly postmodern (and even quite derridadaistic) story.

I’m sorry if I bore you – I know I have written something similar to this in another thread before – but my point is that Gabriel’s text doesn’t trivialize the art at all. It’s an integrated part of The Lamb, and I’m pretty sure the story will continue to interest and intrigue people for generations.