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What if Genesis broke up in 1977?
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M27Barney View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 11 2012 at 13:27

The missus purchased the latest issue of Woman mag, and I note from there that the lovely Myleene is now a free woman againApprove
She won't be pleased when she finds it with all the pages stuck together...Tongue
And, Yes - I only have third party character references to base my emnity towards Mr "ArtFul Dodger" Collins....
Oh and he played a London based criminal in a film as well - wasn't he a cockney?
But the evidence against my original thesis was just as circumstantial (we have no proof that Collins was/wasn't the prime instigator of the musical direction of Genesis post 1977).....I rest my case m'lud....
If music be the food of love......play on
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The Doctor View Drop Down
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Posts: 7942 		Post Options Post Options   Quote The Doctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2012 at 13:34
Some of my favorite songs would never have been made:
Duke's Travels/Duke's End
Heathaze
Duchess
Abacab
Dodo/Lurker
Mama
Home By the Sea I and II
Domino
Feeding the Fire
The Brazilian
Do the Neurotic
Driving the Last Spike
Fading Lights
"PA = LOL^WTF" - Me, with help on this equation from Pat (Padraic).
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tamijo View Drop Down
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Posts: 3271 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tamijo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2012 at 13:34
Mayby they would all be in PG's backing group ?
New JoKe Inc album, Download at www.jokeinc.bandcamp.com
more about JoKe Inc at www.jokeinc.webs.com/


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Cristi View Drop Down
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Posts: 1356 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2012 at 13:36
Originally posted by M27Barney


The missus purchased the latest issue of Woman mag, and I note from there that the lovely Myleene is now a free woman againApprove
She won't be pleased when she finds it with all the pages stuck together...Tongue
And, Yes - I only have third party character references to base my emnity towards Mr "ArtFul Dodger" Collins....
Oh and he played a London based criminal in a film as well - wasn't he a cockney?
But the evidence against my original thesis was just as circumstantial (we have no proof that Collins was/wasn't the prime instigator of the musical direction of Genesis post 1977).....I rest my case m'lud....

Rutherford was the first to wish for a change; "Your Own Special Way" was proof of that. And the ballads he wrote on ATTW3 and Duke.
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Posts: 7942 		Post Options Post Options   Quote The Doctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2012 at 13:40
Originally posted by Cristi

Originally posted by M27Barney


The missus purchased the latest issue of Woman mag, and I note from there that the lovely Myleene is now a free woman againApprove
She won't be pleased when she finds it with all the pages stuck together...Tongue
And, Yes - I only have third party character references to base my emnity towards Mr "ArtFul Dodger" Collins....
Oh and he played a London based criminal in a film as well - wasn't he a cockney?
But the evidence against my original thesis was just as circumstantial (we have no proof that Collins was/wasn't the prime instigator of the musical direction of Genesis post 1977).....I rest my case m'lud....

Rutherford was the first to wish for a change; "Your Own Special Way" was proof of that. And the ballads he wrote on ATTW3 and Duke.


The proof that Collins wasn't the prime instigator of the change is that the change started well before Phil was contributing that much in terms of composition.  You can see both Rutherford and Banks opting for shorter, simpler songs before Collins came into his own as a songwriter. 
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Cristi View Drop Down
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Posts: 1356 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2012 at 13:45
Rutherford was the first to wish for a change; "Your Own Special Way" was proof of that. And the ballads he wrote on ATTW3 and Duke.
[/QUOTE]

The proof that Collins wasn't the prime instigator of the change is that the change started well before Phil was contributing that much in terms of composition.  You can see both Rutherford and Banks opting for shorter, simpler songs before Collins came into his own as a songwriter. 
[/QUOTE]

Most of the songs are composed by Banks/Rutherford/Collins; so blaming only Collins for going pop is wrong. 
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M27Barney View Drop Down
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Posts: 873 		Post Options Post Options   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2012 at 14:08
Originally posted by The Doctor

Originally posted by Cristi

Originally posted by M27Barney


The missus purchased the latest issue of Woman mag, and I note from there that the lovely Myleene is now a free woman againApprove
She won't be pleased when she finds it with all the pages stuck together...Tongue
And, Yes - I only have third party character references to base my emnity towards Mr "ArtFul Dodger" Collins....
Oh and he played a London based criminal in a film as well - wasn't he a cockney?
But the evidence against my original thesis was just as circumstantial (we have no proof that Collins was/wasn't the prime instigator of the musical direction of Genesis post 1977).....I rest my case m'lud....

Rutherford was the first to wish for a change; "Your Own Special Way" was proof of that. And the ballads he wrote on ATTW3 and Duke.


The proof that Collins wasn't the prime instigator of the change is that the change started well before Phil was contributing that much in terms of composition.  You can see both Rutherford and Banks opting for shorter, simpler songs before Collins came into his own as a songwriter. 
I don't thnk that "Your Own Special Way" is short...but I'll concede that it's probably far more poppy than anything else on W&W and a track that I always "skip" - CD's are ace.....
Ok, so Rutherford/Collins both bearded-up were like the pop-taliban - Bank's never stood a chance....LOL
If music be the food of love......play on
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lazland View Drop Down
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Posts: 6494 		Post Options Post Options   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2012 at 14:10
Originally posted by The Doctor

Some of my favorite songs would never have been made:
Duke's Travels/Duke's End
Heathaze
Duchess
Abacab
Dodo/Lurker
Mama
Home By the Sea I and II
Domino
Feeding the Fire
The Brazilian
Do the Neurotic
Driving the Last Spike
Fading Lights

This. In absolute spadesClap


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Snow Dog View Drop Down
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Posts: 32923 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2012 at 14:12
I  haven't posted in this thread yet........or have I?
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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lazland View Drop Down
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Posts: 6494 		Post Options Post Options   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2012 at 14:14
Originally posted by Snow Dog

I  haven't posted in this thread yet........or have I?

Five pages - too much to check mate!LOL

However, it don't matter really. If you have posted, let's have a repeatBig smile


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Posts: 32923 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2012 at 14:18
Originally posted by lazland

Originally posted by Snow Dog

I  haven't posted in this thread yet........or have I?

Five pages - too much to check mate!LOL

However, it don't matter really. If you have posted, let's have a repeatBig smile

Well.....as you probably suspect, I agree with you and The Doc. I have enjoyed most Genesis post 1977 output and in fact some songs I absolutely love. And  it wasn't all down to Collins the fact that they became leaner  and more concise  in sound and songwriting.

Rush did the same.
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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M27Barney View Drop Down
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Posts: 873 		Post Options Post Options   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2012 at 14:19
Originally posted by The Doctor

Some of my favorite songs would never have been made:
Duke's Travels/Duke's End ..............................4.5/10
Heathaze..............................1.5/10
Duchess........Cry
Abacab....................................2.75/10
Dodo/Lurker............................1.75/10
Mama....Cry
Home By the Sea I and II.....................2.99/10
Domino...................................1.66/10
Not heard these at all......
Feeding the Fire
The Brazilian
Do the Neurotic
Driving the Last Spike
Fading Lights
Seeing as I'd give "Death Trip" by Cockney Rebel....7.55/10, "Numbers" by FK a 9.12/10 gives you the benchmark.....
If music be the food of love......play on
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lazland View Drop Down
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Posts: 6494 		Post Options Post Options   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2012 at 14:20
Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by lazland

Originally posted by Snow Dog

I  haven't posted in this thread yet........or have I?

Five pages - too much to check mate!LOL

However, it don't matter really. If you have posted, let's have a repeatBig smile

Well.....as you probably suspect, I agree with you and The Doc. I have enjoyed most Genesis post 1977 output and in fact some songs I absolutely love. And  it wasn't all down to Collins the fact that they became leaner  and more concise  in sound and songwriting.

Rush did the same.

Yep, a very good point.

I absolutely loathe these threads, which end up being utterly ignorant Collins bashing exercises.


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lazland View Drop Down
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Posts: 6494 		Post Options Post Options   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2012 at 14:24
Originally posted by M27Barney

Originally posted by The Doctor

Some of my favorite songs would never have been made:
Duke's Travels/Duke's End ..............................4.5/10
Heathaze..............................1.5/10
Duchess........Cry
Abacab....................................2.75/10
Dodo/Lurker............................1.75/10
Mama....Cry
Home By the Sea I and II.....................2.99/10
Domino...................................1.66/10
Not heard these at all......
Feeding the Fire
The Brazilian
Do the Neurotic
Driving the Last Spike
Fading Lights
Seeing as I'd give "Death Trip" by Cockney Rebel....7.55/10, "Numbers" by FK a 9.12/10 gives you the benchmark.....

Barney. We know you don't like them post-77. As I have said before, you are allowed.

However, comparisons with Cockney Rebel & FK really don't add anything at all to the debate.

If I were M@x, I would ban these pointless threads. You haven't even heard five of the tracks listed, so how the bloody hell can you comment on the damn things? At least when I say I can't stand (for example) Egg, I speak from having heard them, and I don't spend my time knocking them on Appreciation threads.


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Posts: 32923 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2012 at 14:24
Originally posted by lazland

Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by lazland

Originally posted by Snow Dog

I  haven't posted in this thread yet........or have I?

Five pages - too much to check mate!LOL

However, it don't matter really. If you have posted, let's have a repeatBig smile

Well.....as you probably suspect, I agree with you and The Doc. I have enjoyed most Genesis post 1977 output and in fact some songs I absolutely love. And  it wasn't all down to Collins the fact that they became leaner  and more concise  in sound and songwriting.

Rush did the same.

Yep, a very good point.

I absolutely loathe these threads, which end up being utterly ignorant Collins bashing exercises.

You have to admit...he is an easy target. Bloody tax dodger!Wink
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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Snow Dog View Drop Down
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Posts: 32923 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2012 at 14:25
Originally posted by M27Barney

Originally posted by The Doctor

Some of my favorite songs would never have been made:
Duke's Travels/Duke's End ..............................4.5/10
Heathaze..............................1.5/10
Duchess........Cry
Abacab....................................2.75/10
Dodo/Lurker............................1.75/10
Mama....Cry
Home By the Sea I and II.....................2.99/10
Domino...................................1.66/10
Not heard these at all......
Feeding the Fire
The Brazilian
Do the Neurotic
Driving the Last Spike
Fading Lights
Seeing as I'd give "Death Trip" by Cockney Rebel....7.55/10, "Numbers" by FK a 9.12/10 gives you the benchmark.....

Were you Swinton?

Anyway for what it's worth, my ratings

Duke's Travels/Duke's End.....7/10
Heathaze..................................5/10
Duchess...................................6/10
Abacab.....................................10/10
Dodo/Lurker..............................9/10
Mama.........................................9/10
Home By the Sea I and II............8/10
Domino.......................................9/10
Feeding the Fire
The Brazilian...............................10/10
Do the Neurotic............................10/10
Driving the Last Spike...................5/10
Fading Lights................................8/10


Doesn't prove anything though


Edited by Snow Dog - July 11 2012 at 14:28
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lazland View Drop Down
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Posts: 6494 		Post Options Post Options   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2012 at 14:27
Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by lazland

Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by lazland

Originally posted by Snow Dog

I  haven't posted in this thread yet........or have I?

Five pages - too much to check mate!LOL

However, it don't matter really. If you have posted, let's have a repeatBig smile

Well.....as you probably suspect, I agree with you and The Doc. I have enjoyed most Genesis post 1977 output and in fact some songs I absolutely love. And  it wasn't all down to Collins the fact that they became leaner  and more concise  in sound and songwriting.

Rush did the same.

Yep, a very good point.

I absolutely loathe these threads, which end up being utterly ignorant Collins bashing exercises.

You have to admit...he is an easy target. Bloody tax dodger!Wink

Non-resident, which is better than non-domicile. The former is living abroad. The latter is tax avoidance, something that was put up with by successive Tory & Labour governments, a scandal. I believe that he does pay Corporation Tax on his UK based company.


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Posts: 32923 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2012 at 14:30
Originally posted by lazland

Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by lazland

Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by lazland

Originally posted by Snow Dog

I  haven't posted in this thread yet........or have I?

Five pages - too much to check mate!LOL

However, it don't matter really. If you have posted, let's have a repeatBig smile

Well.....as you probably suspect, I agree with you and The Doc. I have enjoyed most Genesis post 1977 output and in fact some songs I absolutely love. And  it wasn't all down to Collins the fact that they became leaner  and more concise  in sound and songwriting.

Rush did the same.

Yep, a very good point.

I absolutely loathe these threads, which end up being utterly ignorant Collins bashing exercises.

You have to admit...he is an easy target. Bloody tax dodger!Wink

Non-resident, which is better than non-domicile. The former is living abroad. The latter is tax avoidance, something that was put up with by successive Tory & Labour governments, a scandal. I believe that he does pay Corporation Tax on his UK based company.

I really don't care Steve. He can look after his money and live where he likes. He's breaking no law. I feel sorry for the poor bugger these  days.
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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lazland View Drop Down
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Posts: 6494 		Post Options Post Options   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2012 at 14:32
Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by lazland

Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by lazland

Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by lazland

Originally posted by Snow Dog

I  haven't posted in this thread yet........or have I?

Five pages - too much to check mate!LOL

However, it don't matter really. If you have posted, let's have a repeatBig smile

Well.....as you probably suspect, I agree with you and The Doc. I have enjoyed most Genesis post 1977 output and in fact some songs I absolutely love. And  it wasn't all down to Collins the fact that they became leaner  and more concise  in sound and songwriting.

Rush did the same.

Yep, a very good point.

I absolutely loathe these threads, which end up being utterly ignorant Collins bashing exercises.

You have to admit...he is an easy target. Bloody tax dodger!Wink

Non-resident, which is better than non-domicile. The former is living abroad. The latter is tax avoidance, something that was put up with by successive Tory & Labour governments, a scandal. I believe that he does pay Corporation Tax on his UK based company.

I really don't care Steve. He can look after his money and live where he likes. He's breaking no law. I feel sorry for the poor bugger these  days.

As do I.


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M27Barney View Drop Down
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Posts: 873 		Post Options Post Options   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2012 at 16:15
I was a bit pissed off that he went with cap-in-hand to Banks/Rutherford , to get a Genesis Reunion (for fiscal purposes only) as his latest very young trophy wife had fleeced him after a short marriage.......
He's made his fookin bed...let him lie in it (Alone.....if he's got any sense anyway)...
Poetic Justice if you ask me.....
If music be the food of love......play on
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