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Topic ClosedPaul Simon (& Garfunkel) vs the Beach Boys
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Poll Question: who is most important, influecial, biggest impact on rock (and prog)
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Icarium View Drop Down
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Points: 34050 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Paul Simon (& Garfunkel) vs the Beach Boys
    Posted: May 18 2011 at 02:36
vocal harmonies - check
classy arangement - check
american - check
artsy - check
folksy - check
nostalgic - ohyeah
loveable - plausable
 
 
Big smile


Edited by aginor - May 18 2011 at 02:37
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Points: 29625 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2011 at 08:00
I have respect for both acts though I have no albums so I can only go by the hits I've heard.  Simon and Funky Art for me. I've never thought of the Beachy Boys as folksy though. Big smile


Edited by Slartibartfast - May 18 2011 at 08:03
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 3595 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2011 at 08:44
It all comes down to this, and this alone:

Pet Sounds vs. Bridge Over Troubled Water. The Beach Boys and Simon and Garfunkel were always 'hit' oriented bands in the first place, and usually their albums suffered from unnecessary filler (despite rarely ever being more than half an hour long). While BB were never 'folksy', they did do a lot with orchestration. I adore Pet Sounds immensely, while Bridge Over Troubled Water is another favorite of mine. I prefer the former over the latter, though, for sheer consistency. See, even in their worst 1960's ruts, the Boys were more consistent than Simon and Garfunkel. It was probably because Art didn't write any of the songs, and BB had two or three writers from time to time, eve if Brian Wilson was the iconic father of Pet Sounds. In all, considering S&G only had five standard albums and BB had twenty or thirty, not counting solo projects (notably Pacific Ocean Blue), it's hard to judge. At the end of the day, I'd take Beach Boys, but mainly on account of Pet Sounds. I can't help it.
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Points: 5208 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2011 at 09:05
I have never got the appeal of Pet Sounds. From a historic perspective, I get its importance. But it was part of a artistic challenge between the Beatles and Beach Boys, and Sgt. Pepper rendered Pet Sounds a dinosaur of sonic experimentation IMO. I don't hate the BB, but their ceiling was way lower than the Beatles, and yes Paul Simon's.
 
The arrangements of Cecelia, Bridge Over Troubled Water, even Mrs. Robinson are musical and creative for their time. And Simon went on to face the world fusion explosion, and one of hits sports the best drum groove ever in Steve Gadd's beat for "50 ways to leave your lover."
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Points: 3595 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2011 at 09:26
Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

I have never got the appeal of Pet Sounds. From a historic perspective, I get its importance. But it was part of a artistic challenge between the Beatles and Beach Boys, and Sgt. Pepper rendered Pet Sounds a dinosaur of sonic experimentation IMO. I don't hate the BB, but their ceiling was way lower than the Beatles, and yes Paul Simon's.
 
The arrangements of Cecelia, Bridge Over Troubled Water, even Mrs. Robinson are musical and creative for their time. And Simon went on to face the world fusion explosion, and one of hits sports the best drum groove ever in Steve Gadd's beat for "50 ways to leave your lover."

I don't even care about 'experimentation'. And I'd actually take Pet Sounds over Sgt. Pepper any day (but not Abbey Road). For me, it's the world of spiritual and sexual naivety that surrounds Pet Sounds. Oh and the harmonies and melodies.
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Points: 34050 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2011 at 09:30
but they respected eachother http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmjj5Orjnl0
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Points: 2585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2011 at 16:59
I love both but i think S and G did a more great number of good songs
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Points: 16952 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2011 at 17:04
Both i cant decide.
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Points: 12681 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2011 at 21:19
Simon & Garfunkel  wrote and performed songs that mattered, particularly in the 60s. "Sounds of Silence", "Scarborough Fair/Canticle", "Homeward Bound","America", The Boxer", "I Am A Rock", "Mrs. Robinson" -- these were the soundtrack of the 60s, the pulse and the conscience of that generation Top that off with some of the most beautiful songs ever written: "Kathy's Song", "For Emily, Whenver I May Find Her", "April Come She Will", and "Bridge Over Troubled Water", and there really is no contest here.
 
For most of the 60s, The Beach Boys diddled around with beach music. Sorry, in the grand scheme of things they were inconsequential.
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Points: 3595 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2011 at 00:54
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Simon & Garfunkel  wrote and performed songs that mattered, particularly in the 60s. "Sounds of Silence", "Scarborough Fair/Canticle", "Homeward Bound","America", The Boxer", "I Am A Rock", "Mrs. Robinson" -- these were the soundtrack of the 60s, the pulse and the conscience of that generation Top that off with some of the most beautiful songs ever written: "Kathy's Song", "For Emily, Whenver I May Find Her", "April Come She Will", and "Bridge Over Troubled Water", and there really is no contest here.
 
For most of the 60s, The Beach Boys diddled around with beach music. Sorry, in the grand scheme of things they were inconsequential.

They DID diddle around with beach music and I detested that, but are you saying that Sounds of Silence or Bookends had more of an influence or impact than Pet Sounds? We're speaking of influence on rock and prog. Now, there wasn't much rock to either group. And neither group influenced prog too much, either. In terms of prog, well who was more influential than th Beatles? Alright, now which band influenced the Beatles more? Ya don't hear Paul rattling off about the wonders of Mrs. Robinson. 

That point aside, I rate the bands equally. Simon's lyrics never touched me in any way, so I don't consider lyrics in one bit. When it came to vocal harmonies, even if it was beach music (which made little sense, as the Boys were hardly surfers in the first place), the Beach Boys ruled supreme. By the time Simon had even gotten out of the woods, musically, the Beach Boys had nearly ten albums behind them. 

Surfer Girl was inconsequential, Little Deuce Coupe was inconsequential, and Stack O' Tracks was very, very inconsequential, but how can ya say that Pet Sounds, even if it's one lone record, was inconsequential in the least? I'm not trying to defend a sacred cow, here. Pet Sounds isn't even in my top 10 favorite albums (maybe top 50 or so). It's influenced everyone from Bob Dylan and Roger Waters to Eric Clapton, John Lennon, most baroque pop bands, Love, and Elton John. I dunno. Ya don't hear about S and G very much these days, and I ain't never heard a single 'rock' or 'prog' composition come from them. Sure, there's gospel in Bridge Over Troubled Waters, but that came out in 1970. The Beach boys had somewhere around 40 chart topping singles. 

I don't know. This all seems f**king pointless. What are we arguing? Which was more influential. Is that an opinion? It isn't an opinion. One was more influential or one wasn't. It's measurable, just not with our technology. So we are basically measuring facts we cannot prove with blind speculation. All we have to go on are record sales, artist admissions, and estimation. Even if one group sold more records, who is to say which people were influenced? Which band was more influential to Robert Fripp? Or how about to Tony Banks and the crew at Genesis? How about the Beatles? What does it matter? How can you objectively prove this sh*t?
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Points: 12681 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2011 at 20:06
Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

That point aside, I rate the bands equally. Simon's lyrics never touched me in any way, so I don't consider lyrics in one bit. When it came to vocal harmonies, even if it was beach music (which made little sense, as the Boys were hardly surfers in the first place), the Beach Boys ruled supreme. By the time Simon had even gotten out of the woods, musically, the Beach Boys had nearly ten albums behind them. 
 
The most integral part of Simon & Garfunkel was, of course, Simon. Yes, The Beach Boys had their sacred cow Pet Sounds (which I've never cared for, personally), but if you look at Paul Simon's career as a composer/lyricist, there really is no comparison. Aside from S&G albums, Simon's 70's releases, such as Paul Simon, Kodachrome, There Goes Rhymin' Simon, and albums from the 80's like Graceland and Rhythm of the Saints, show a consistent ability to compose superb albums over three decades, as well as successfully incorporating world music into his portfolio. The Beach Boys? They've played a lot of state fairs and bowling alleys since the 60s. And, of course, they had John Stamos as a band member for awhile. Ummm...and of course the Beach Boy's Dennis Wilson hung out with Charles Manson, so they have that going for them as well. 
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Points: 64350 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2011 at 20:17
I voted the Boys cause they only had 1 and also cause they were probably the single most important act in the history of Prog.  But I love Paul too.  Anyone see him on SNL?  He was reasonable, couldn't decide if I like his new stuff or not but I wasn't thrilled by it.

and it was Smiley Smile, not Pet Sounds, that was the real breakthrough record, an amazing accomplishment even today, waaay beyond anything - musically speaking - that Barrett or Zappa or the Moodies were doing.
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Points: 3595 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2011 at 09:48
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

That point aside, I rate the bands equally. Simon's lyrics never touched me in any way, so I don't consider lyrics in one bit. When it came to vocal harmonies, even if it was beach music (which made little sense, as the Boys were hardly surfers in the first place), the Beach Boys ruled supreme. By the time Simon had even gotten out of the woods, musically, the Beach Boys had nearly ten albums behind them. 
 
The most integral part of Simon & Garfunkel was, of course, Simon. Yes, The Beach Boys had their sacred cow Pet Sounds (which I've never cared for, personally), but if you look at Paul Simon's career as a composer/lyricist, there really is no comparison. Aside from S&G albums, Simon's 70's releases, such as Paul Simon, Kodachrome, There Goes Rhymin' Simon, and albums from the 80's like Graceland and Rhythm of the Saints, show a consistent ability to compose superb albums over three decades, as well as successfully incorporating world music into his portfolio. The Beach Boys? They've played a lot of state fairs and bowling alleys since the 60s. And, of course, they had John Stamos as a band member for awhile. Ummm...and of course the Beach Boy's Dennis Wilson hung out with Charles Manson, so they have that going for them as well. 

I have yet to delve into Paul Simon's solo career. It's on my list. And of course the Beach Boys died down into the gutter after the beginning of the 1970's. By chance have you heard Pacific Ocean Blue, form Dennis Wilson? Its my favorite album that came from the Beach Boys at all. It's no coincidence, then, that the Final Cut is one of my favorite records, so goes it. I wonder if Roger Waters listened to a lot of Lou Reed's Berlin and Wilson's Pacific Ocean Blue between 1977 and 1982.
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Points: 31165 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2011 at 09:52
I enjoy S&G way, way more than the Beach Boys.  I don't care for the music of the latter, despite the ostensible influence they had on more important artists.
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Points: 841 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2011 at 16:43
I love Paul Simon's song writing, he's on the same level as Joni Mitchell in my book.
I like BB a lot as well though.
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2011 at 08:28
Like both. Prefer Simon & Garfunkel.
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Points: 34050 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2011 at 08:33
Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

That point aside, I rate the bands equally. Simon's lyrics never touched me in any way, so I don't consider lyrics in one bit. When it came to vocal harmonies, even if it was beach music (which made little sense, as the Boys were hardly surfers in the first place), the Beach Boys ruled supreme. By the time Simon had even gotten out of the woods, musically, the Beach Boys had nearly ten albums behind them. 
 
The most integral part of Simon & Garfunkel was, of course, Simon. Yes, The Beach Boys had their sacred cow Pet Sounds (which I've never cared for, personally), but if you look at Paul Simon's career as a composer/lyricist, there really is no comparison. Aside from S&G albums, Simon's 70's releases, such as Paul Simon, Kodachrome, There Goes Rhymin' Simon, and albums from the 80's like Graceland and Rhythm of the Saints, show a consistent ability to compose superb albums over three decades, as well as successfully incorporating world music into his portfolio. The Beach Boys? They've played a lot of state fairs and bowling alleys since the 60s. And, of course, they had John Stamos as a band member for awhile. Ummm...and of course the Beach Boy's Dennis Wilson hung out with Charles Manson, so they have that going for them as well. 

I have yet to delve into Paul Simon's solo career. It's on my list. And of course the Beach Boys died down into the gutter after the beginning of the 1970's. By chance have you heard Pacific Ocean Blue, form Dennis Wilson? Its my favorite album that came from the Beach Boys at all. It's no coincidence, then, that the Final Cut is one of my favorite records, so goes it. I wonder if Roger Waters listened to a lot of Lou Reed's Berlin and Wilson's Pacific Ocean Blue between 1977 and 1982.
 
fantastic song... so exotic and warm
 
 
 
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Points: 34050 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2011 at 08:34
Paul Simon is almost jazz rock/fusion
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Points: 2555 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2011 at 08:37
Simon & Garfunkel!
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Points: 13243 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2011 at 08:48
Simon & Garfunkel I find essential, whilst the BB merely interesting.
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