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Topic ClosedWas Benoit David the best Yes could do?

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colorofmoney91 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2011 at 09:25
I think Benoit is going to be fantastic, and he sounds like a decent Anderson impersonator. Hopefully he'll bring some of his own flair (whatever that may be) to the band.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2011 at 11:44
Originally posted by rdtprog rdtprog wrote:

Again , the same little battle for a NAME, three letters : YES  Is Wakeman afraid to loose his reputation? I think he as a big EGO thinking that him and Jon are the heart of Yes. Yes is more that this 2 members. Unhappy

To be fair, he didn't mention anything about himself...... just Jon.

But I do find Wakeman's (and Howe's) reactions to the whole thing a bit childish....... if you're not in the band, it's not your business........ and its not very professional to make such comments about fellow musicians, regardless of your history. Those two have been sl*g.ing each other off like they're in some kind of TV drama.

Jon himself has been very kind and fair to the other guys considering the position they put him in.... and at least he is capable of moving on from the whole escapade. I say hats off to him for coping so well with being fired from a job that was so central to his life.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2011 at 12:13
Let's remember that this is a business, first, last, and always. Let's remember that Jon's health was touch and go at one point. Let's remember that the group had a history of exchanging, or replacing, members. Let's assume that Squire thought about some of the other singers that have been mentioned in this post. Let's assume that in some cases they weren't interested, available, or able to come to terms on their role and their longevity that was offered.
 
And let's enjoy Benoit for what he brings to the group--or not, if you're a Jon absolutist. Because he's it. Accept it and move on. . .
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2011 at 12:47
Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

I've said it before...David did a superb job at the show I saw. He sang his part and then let the veteran members hold the spotlight.
 
How that will translate to album we'll see. Let the thing come out and we can judge then.

Good points!  Based on the clips posted thus far, Benoit David does not even attempt to emulate Anderson's contratenor vocal range.  He sounds quite a bit like Trevor Horn! 

I guess the new CD will be "Drama Part 2," which is too bad since I didn't care much for Drama Pt. 1.   We'll see how the fans vote with their checkbooks.   "Drama" was less than a critical and financial success for the band, as I recall.  

At least B. David can hit the high notes in classic Yes material, which Horn could not during the "Drama" tour!  Trevor's attempts at covering Anderson's material in concert were pretty ugly as I recall. 

Anderson brought much more to Yes than sheer wind pipes.....he also brought some compositional talent that goes lacking when he is absent, and some powerful (if baffling!) lyrics.  The lyrics of "Fly From Here" aren't very inspiring for a Yes record.  

Waiting to see how this all plays out, if anyone visits Facebook, please seek out "Notes From The Edge," there is excellent commentary and discussion over there.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2011 at 14:54
I avoided listening to Drama for the longest time, because I though "it's not Yes".  However, it IS a decent album, if not really anything special (in my view).  I will likely get the new album at some point, as the clips sound pretty good compared to the previous several albums.  Of course, they are just clips so the whole package might be lacking still.

I was very unhappy to hear about Anderson leaving, and felt that it wasn't Yes anymore.  Of course, when I think about it, they haven't been the Yes that I loved since at least Going For The One.  I did love the Keys To Ascension albums, even if a few of the new songs didn't sound like Yes to me (and the rest really didn't come close to the greatness of the past).  I passed up the chance to see the "classic" lineup back in 2002 or so because I didn't think it would be worth $70 (crappy venue played into that decision as well), and I have still never seen Yes live (though based on DVD's I've seen from Keys and Masterworks, they still have the ability to move me at times).  No regrets here, and not the least interest in seeing them live with Benoit.

Personally, I don't get excited about any aging "legends" anymore (and I'm over 40 and obviously not getting any younger).  I just don't understand why they can't just move on and create something brand new.  Look at Peter Gabriel as a good "prog" example.  He doesn't look back, just keeps moving forward.  I'm not crazy about a lot of his output, but I totally respect that ethos.  I wish these old proggers would tool, but at the same time understand the need to have a comfortable old age which is probably easier to do by playing the nostalgia circuit.........certainly there are more than enough people interested to make that profitable.  For myself, I'll pass.  I'd rather find new and interesting music while occasionally being blown away by how good those bands used to be as I listen to the albums they made when the had a drive and ambition for something other then money and recognition.

Edit:  Just realized I didn't address the actual topic of this thread LOL  So, to put it simply, they could very easily have done better than Benoit.  They could have invited Anderson back.


Edited by infandous - June 06 2011 at 14:57
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2011 at 12:45
Wakeman never mentioned himself, he put Anderson at the heart of Yes, as he did when Anderson first left after Tormato. He has always been consistent about that.

I will stick rigidly to my opinion that Yes should have ceased, and this lot called themselves a new name. Squire & Rabin were going to release 90125 under the name Cinema - it was only Anderson's return that forced a change back to Yes.

There are some singer's who are irreplaceable. Rush without Lee, Zep without Plant, Who without Daltrey. My favourite band, Marillion, IMHO, should have renamed themselves following Fish's departure, and I prefer Hogarth.

Someone mentioned the B word - business. Maybe so, but I would naively like to think that bands would, sometimes, have a little bit more respect for those, like me, who have spent a fortune on them over the years.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2011 at 13:48
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Wakeman never mentioned himself, he put Anderson at the heart of Yes, as he did when Anderson first left after Tormato. He has always been consistent about that.

I will stick rigidly to my opinion that Yes should have ceased, and this lot called themselves a new name. Squire & Rabin were going to release 90125 under the name Cinema - it was only Anderson's return that forced a change back to Yes.

There are some singer's who are irreplaceable. Rush without Lee, Zep without Plant, Who without Daltrey. My favourite band, Marillion, IMHO, should have renamed themselves following Fish's departure, and I prefer Hogarth.

Someone mentioned the B word - business. Maybe so, but I would naively like to think that bands would, sometimes, have a little bit more respect for those, like me, who have spent a fortune on them over the years.

Regardless of how a band's financial motives are particularly moral or immoral....... I don't see how it transcends to a disrespect for fans. I mean, with all due respect, you chose to spend your money on Yes albums and next month you will also have that choice. While I agree that some bands, and particularly Yes over the years, have made poor artistic decisions with dollar signs in their eyes, I don't think they will ever "owe" anything to fans...... because part of being a music fan is accepting the risk involved with investing in potentially bad music.

You may be familiar with Fripp's writings on fans who "have paid their hard-earned cash" to go to his concerts and been disappointed afterwards........ he couldn't care less! And why should he? Making music to please fans is equally untrue to a musician's artistic self as making music to please a record company.

Jon Anderson's voice is indeed irreplaceable. His songwriting, his charm and optimism, within and without Yes, are irreplaceable. But who says Beniot David is a replacement? And even if he is, why should Yes change their name? Bands can change direction. The Who without Daltrey sounds very un-Who...... but maybe if history was different they would have changed Daltrey for someone else. It doesn't mean Daltrey is replaceable, it just means the band have changed direction and no longer need "a Daltrey", real or fake. Yes with Beniot are not replacing Jon, they are moving on from Jon (albeit for the wrong reasons). And the name Yes is only defined by what the band are doing, not what they did or what they were most famous for. To borrow from Fripp again, it is "a way of doing things" rather than a group of particular people.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2011 at 13:52
They would have been better off with Céline Dion struggling through Close To The Edge or evn Big Generator. The only band in history that has become a cover band of itself.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2011 at 13:52
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Wakeman never mentioned himself, he put Anderson at the heart of Yes, as he did when Anderson first left after Tormato. He has always been consistent about that.

I will stick rigidly to my opinion that Yes should have ceased, and this lot called themselves a new name. Squire & Rabin were going to release 90125 under the name Cinema - it was only Anderson's return that forced a change back to Yes.

There are some singer's who are irreplaceable. Rush without Lee, Zep without Plant, Who without Daltrey. My favourite band, Marillion, IMHO, should have renamed themselves following Fish's departure, and I prefer Hogarth.

Someone mentioned the B word - business. Maybe so, but I would naively like to think that bands would, sometimes, have a little bit more respect for those, like me, who have spent a fortune on them over the years.

Sadly, we see these business shenanigans all too often in prog!  Flash have had a dust-up over their name, and it would have been quite easy to negotiate a "blessing" and guest-track by Pete Banks on the (forever delayed) new Flash CD.  

Wishbone Ash is another classic, with two touring versions, Andy Powell's and Martin Turner's versions.  Two bands playing tug-of-war over the same songs. 

I agree, the honest thing would have been for Squire to re-name the thing and start fresh, as Howe & Co. did with their very successful Asia project.    Squire never seems to succeed on his own without being surrounded by Yes-men, if you think about it.....one rather ancient solo LP, a few so-so "Conspiracy" CDs and that's about it.  

If the Wakeman/Anderson/Rabin project takes hold, I'll be very happy to stand in the ticket line.  I've already passed on this version of Yes and don't anticipate seeing the Styx/Yes traveling circus.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2011 at 13:57
Why did't he just call it the Farmer Chris Squire and his  Dull Band after Rick Wakeman threw the tomato at the beyond disgusting artwork on Tormato?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2011 at 15:17
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Wakeman never mentioned himself, he put Anderson at the heart of Yes, as he did when Anderson first left after Tormato. He has always been consistent about that.

I will stick rigidly to my opinion that Yes should have ceased, and this lot called themselves a new name. Squire & Rabin were going to release 90125 under the name Cinema - it was only Anderson's return that forced a change back to Yes.

There are some singer's who are irreplaceable. Rush without Lee, Zep without Plant, Who without Daltrey. My favourite band, Marillion, IMHO, should have renamed themselves following Fish's departure, and I prefer Hogarth.

Someone mentioned the B word - business. Maybe so, but I would naively like to think that bands would, sometimes, have a little bit more respect for those, like me, who have spent a fortune on them over the years.

Sadly, we see these business shenanigans all too often in prog!  Flash have had a dust-up over their name, and it would have been quite easy to negotiate a "blessing" and guest-track by Pete Banks on the (forever delayed) new Flash CD.  

Wishbone Ash is another classic, with two touring versions, Andy Powell's and Martin Turner's versions.  Two bands playing tug-of-war over the same songs. 

I agree, the honest thing would have been for Squire to re-name the thing and start fresh, as Howe & Co. did with their very successful Asia project.    Squire never seems to succeed on his own without being surrounded by Yes-men, if you think about it.....one rather ancient solo LP, a few so-so "Conspiracy" CDs and that's about it.  

If the Wakeman/Anderson/Rabin project takes hold, I'll be very happy to stand in the ticket line.  I've already passed on this version of Yes and don't anticipate seeing the Styx/Yes traveling circus.  


Funny you should mention Asia.  I think John Payne might have a perspective on this that would enforce the "cashing in" accusation of the fairly recent "original Asia" reformation Wink

Personally, I think they should have still called the 90125 band Cinema, as it certainly wasn't (and isn't) Yes to my ears.  Of course, going by the Fripp definition of band, I suppose just about anything released by Chris Squire would be Yes in some form (since he is the only truly original member left in the band..........though Howe and White have been their long enough for it to not really matter and in any case are part of the "definitive" line up).  He also has had ownership of the name for a more consistent and unbroken time than any other member.

In any case, I'm still willing to listen to the thing, but I have no interest in seeing them live (wish I would have seen one of the Keys performances though........that would have been magical).


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2011 at 22:12
I guess there would be less people knowing classic Yes if they had named the 90125 line-up "Cinema".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2011 at 04:07

Even if Cinema didn't have any Yes members in it, if everyone from Yes/Cinema agreed on the name Yes, then it merely represents a change in direction for Yes.  

If it "wasn't Yes" to some people's ears, then they obviously just have a less broad definition of Yes than the musicians themselves. Who cares what it's called or how it is justified or warranted to be called Yes....... just listen t it or avoid it.

The same applies to Yes in 2011. Denying that the band is even allowed to be called Yes is taking things a bit personally.......

Listen or avoid!!! LOL



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2011 at 09:06
Originally posted by thehallway thehallway wrote:

Even if Cinema didn't have any Yes members in it, if everyone from Yes/Cinema agreed on the name Yes, then it merely represents a change in direction for Yes.  

If it "wasn't Yes" to some people's ears, then they obviously just have a less broad definition of Yes than the musicians themselves. Who cares what it's called or how it is justified or warranted to be called Yes....... just listen t it or avoid it.

The same applies to Yes in 2011. Denying that the band is even allowed to be called Yes is taking things a bit personally.......

Listen or avoid!!! LOL



I don't think any of us have any illusions that the members of the current Yes care at all what we think.  Your point is also a good one.  I just say that for ME, personally, 90125 was not Yes.  Of course bands are entitled to determine what is or is not "them".  I also am completely entitled to my own feeling about that subject.  Big smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2011 at 11:18
Originally posted by infandous infandous wrote:

Originally posted by thehallway thehallway wrote:

Even if Cinema didn't have any Yes members in it, if everyone from Yes/Cinema agreed on the name Yes, then it merely represents a change in direction for Yes.  

If it "wasn't Yes" to some people's ears, then they obviously just have a less broad definition of Yes than the musicians themselves. Who cares what it's called or how it is justified or warranted to be called Yes....... just listen t it or avoid it.

The same applies to Yes in 2011. Denying that the band is even allowed to be called Yes is taking things a bit personally.......

Listen or avoid!!! LOL



I don't think any of us have any illusions that the members of the current Yes care at all what we think.  Your point is also a good one.  I just say that for ME, personally, 90125 was not Yes.  Of course bands are entitled to determine what is or is not "them".  I also am completely entitled to my own feeling about that subject.  Big smile

I suppose it is a natural extension from "disliking" a certain band's new direction, to say that this new direction "isn't them".........but ultimately, it still is them. Of course we, as fans, can have an opinion on it. But the denial aspect is perhaps a little childish, typical of fanboyism (no disrespect to fanboys!)....... i.e. It is better and easier to admit that a band you love has gone so far downhill that they are no longer the same band, than it is to admit that the band made some crappy albums.

Although I love 90125, I really don't like Love Beach, which was a significant change in direction for ELP. Would I say the album doesn't qualify as ELP (not just in terms of categorisation, but artistically)? I wouldn't. I would say ELP have developed, and that I don't like them anymore!

Rick Wakeman saying that the current Yes isn't Yes...... is a silly thing to say, especially as a member who himself left the band more times than is countable. Yes is the music, not the band. Jon's presence or absence doesn't make it Yes or un-Yes.......... just less like typical Yes.

Is the band worse without Jon though? DEFINATELY.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2011 at 18:24
Originally posted by Horizons Horizons wrote:

When i saw this version of yes at Janus Landing in Florida, i was very pleased with his performance.
He interacted with the band well, was happy, and played around with the acoustic alot.
And, in my opinion he does his job cloning Anderson's vocals.
 

Smae thing here, in Argentina he was fine
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2011 at 00:10
Originally posted by el böthy el böthy wrote:

Originally posted by Horizons Horizons wrote:

When i saw this version of yes at Janus Landing in Florida, i was very pleased with his performance.
He interacted with the band well, was happy, and played around with the acoustic alot.
And, in my opinion he does his job cloning Anderson's vocals.
 

Smae thing here, in Argentina he was fine

But the question is, was Benoit David the BEST that Yes could have done to replace Anderson?

I happen to do a bit of work in the prog music industry, you'd all recognize the names.  One of the big problems in bringing an artist or group back from the past is "creating a buzz."    

I don't think folks seek out Yes specifically because of Benoit David, do they?  I passed on the chance to see them in Chicago specifically because of Benoit.  

Yes had other options they might have explored, including a woman (listen to Annie Haslam's treatment of "Turn of the Century," it is mind blowing!) or an established pro from another band, regardless of whether the person was a Jon Anderson sound-alike or not.  David does have a bit of cred, but I could have found a dozen better vocalists for Yes if given the assignment.  

Deep Purple prospered when they replaced Blackmore with Steve Morse, a remarkable guitarist in his own right.   On the other hand, Flash is struggling to get out of the gate without the lift they would have received from the involvement of Peter Banks.   There are always intangibles with bands....Queen with Paul Rodgers was a commercial bust.  

Also, from what I've heard of the songwriting on "Fly From Here," the lyrics are barely passable and the vocalizations are just so-so.  I'm not even sure that is David singing, it sounds like Trevor Horn.   As a longtime Yes fan, I'm not impressed and I'm waiting for the Anderson/Wakeman/Rabin collaboration to bear fruit. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2011 at 08:43
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by el böthy el böthy wrote:

Originally posted by Horizons Horizons wrote:

When i saw this version of yes at Janus Landing in Florida, i was very pleased with his performance.
He interacted with the band well, was happy, and played around with the acoustic alot.
And, in my opinion he does his job cloning Anderson's vocals.
 

Smae thing here, in Argentina he was fine

But the question is, was Benoit David the BEST that Yes could have done to replace Anderson?

I happen to do a bit of work in the prog music industry, you'd all recognize the names.  One of the big problems in bringing an artist or group back from the past is "creating a buzz."    

I don't think folks seek out Yes specifically because of Benoit David, do they?  I passed on the chance to see them in Chicago specifically because of Benoit.  

Yes had other options they might have explored, including a woman (listen to Annie Haslam's treatment of "Turn of the Century," it is mind blowing!) or an established pro from another band, regardless of whether the person was a Jon Anderson sound-alike or not.  David does have a bit of cred, but I could have found a dozen better vocalists for Yes if given the assignment.  

Deep Purple prospered when they replaced Blackmore with Steve Morse, a remarkable guitarist in his own right.   On the other hand, Flash is struggling to get out of the gate without the lift they would have received from the involvement of Peter Banks.   There are always intangibles with bands....Queen with Paul Rodgers was a commercial bust.  

Also, from what I've heard of the songwriting on "Fly From Here," the lyrics are barely passable and the vocalizations are just so-so.  I'm not even sure that is David singing, it sounds like Trevor Horn.   As a longtime Yes fan, I'm not impressed and I'm waiting for the Anderson/Wakeman/Rabin collaboration to bear fruit. 


This is pretty much my feeling about it all.  As stated earlier, Wakeman has never said that it isn't Yes because he isn't in it, he specifically said it is because Jon Anderson isn't in it.  I tend to agree.  Personally, even though I enjoyed the shows I saw in the 90's immensely, I really couldn't think of the Waters -less Floyd as Pink Floyd.  It was really David Gilmour does Pink Floyd with a really good backing band.  Though those two Floyd albums were certainly his best solo albums (just like The Final Cut was Waters best solo album)  Big smile

Anyway, getting back to Yes, it's obviously the bands choice to continue on in this way, and Anderson doesn't own the name and has given his blessing.  Personally, I haven't expected anything great from them since I heard the Keys albums (at the time, I thought that might be the beginning of new creativity from the "classic" lineup.......little did I know it was going to be extremely short lived).

Still, I think they could have easily found a better singer if they wanted to go in a new direction.  From what I've heard, that is not what they wanted to do.  To me, it sounds like they wanted to make a kind of Drama part 2 with some Asia pop sensibilities thrown into the mix.  I'll have to hear the whole album though before I pass any definitive judgment.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2011 at 19:14
The "Keys to Ascension" sessions were the origin of some of the best moments in Yes' history ("Mind Drive", to mention only the most obvious one), and even "Magnification" was better than all that 80s stuff, including "Drama" to me (personally). So Yes are finally on their way back to old glory, and Wakeman/Anderson have never really been important for Yes' music style. (Wakeman enthusiasts might want to hear "Relayer" again and tell me why he would have been a better choice.)

Who would be a reasonable alternative? Another "let's sing like someone who tries to imitate Jon Anderson badly" guy? Trevor Horn? Oh, come on...

The best person to replace Jon Anderson is someone who tries to be Jon Anderson. I presume B. David does a great job...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2011 at 19:47
Originally posted by Vibrationbaby Vibrationbaby wrote:

They would have been better off with Céline Dion struggling through Close To The Edge or evn Big Generator. The only band in history that has become a cover band of itself.
 
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