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Winter In Eden for Symphonic, Heavy or Prog Metal?

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progrockfreak View Drop Down
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    Posted: June 15 2011 at 07:38
Here is a band who might be worth a listen for one of the three categories mentioned above in the topic subject. They are a five-piece from the North East of England who play dark but very melodic symphonic metal. The vocalist, Vicky Johnson is excellent without ever needing to resort to the wailing operatic style of the front ladies so many similar bands, and there are no male growls anywhere either to detract from the music. The rest of the band, Sam Cull on guitar, Steve Johnson on keys, Ian Heddle on bass and Wayne McAloon on drums all excel in their respective crafts too. They are similar to Kingfisher Sky in many respects, who are already on here. Unsigned at present, though I can't understand why - their superb 2010 album "Awakening" is available from their website http://www.winterineden.com/Band.htm, or you can download it from iTunes. Also, 4 of the 13 tracks are available to listen to in full at their myspace page http://www.myspace.com/winterineden
 
They are on tour at present, notably supporting Credo on Sunday July 3rd at the Robin 2 Bilston, UK - as well as playing the Ravenheart Rock Festival at the Asylum 2 in Birmingham, UK on Saturday 9th July.
Quite a few YouTube clips of the band exist, both live performances and tracks from the album. Here are a couple to whet your appetite.
 
 
 
 
 
 
I know there are a lot of bands springing up lately with a vaguely similar style, but this to me is definitely one of the better ones. Their songwriting is top notch.
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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2011 at 08:11
Saw the videos and heard MySpace, Symphonic they aren't.

And honestly I don't see them as really Prog.

Iván
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progrockfreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2011 at 08:52
I don't know what sub-genre they might come under, that's why I put three options in the topic title. Once again it all comes down to different  people's interpretation of what constitutes prog, and how to sub-classify it. All I know is that I, personally, really like this music - along with  a vast number of bands that HAVE made it onto Progarchives. At least  I have given everyone here an opportunity to listen to what to me is really good songwriting, and certainly not mainstream rock or pop - if the band is rejected as not being prog then so be it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Windhawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2011 at 09:16
If admissable it'll be as prog metal. Depends on what their material is like, first YT vid had prog metal tendencies, second one about none at all. If they have (much) more material like the first one, by preference with a more sophisticated compositional approach, they may have a chance in prog metal. Nowhere else.
The Progressive Rock record labels project: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=85100
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marty McFly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2011 at 09:26

Sounds to me like Symphonic Metal. Maybe Prog, but it probably won't be easy.

By no way it's Symphonic Prog, it's so different from other Symphonic bands. Actually, how did you get the idea that it's Symphonic Prog, other that it's Symphonic Metal ?


EDIT: Oh, seems like Olav was faster. Still, if anything, it will be Prog Metal. And even this is very, very uncertain.



Edited by Marty McFly - June 15 2011 at 09:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progrockfreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2011 at 10:11
OK, I guess that's told me!! Topic closed as far as I am concerned, but it won't stop me enjoying them at the Robin 2 a fortnight on Sunday.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marty McFly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2011 at 10:16

Hey, hey, calm down a bit. Nobody's telling that it's not music for enjoyment. I'm only stating inevitable - they will have hard time getting here.

There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progrockfreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2011 at 11:43
So many great bands that are quite widely considered as having prog leanings at the very least can't be found on here other than in forum discussions that ultimately lead to rejection. I suppose I should have realised that if Within Temptation get the resounding rejection that they did, then Winter In Eden had no chance. I love this site, and will always refer to it and do my best to contribute to it where I feel I have something that may be of interest, but I really feel it is misleadingly named ProgARCHIVES when there are so many gaps left as a result of the selection/rejection procedure. I made a suggestion in the Scorpions topic started in this same forum by 'listen' on 30th Jan this year (http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55145&PID=4159121#4159121) that even bands that were rejected by the Collaborators should get a brief page on here explaining why - a simple page that would turn up in a google search for them made by a casual user interested in finding out about them, rather than no reference at all other than the discussion in the forums. Lot of extra work for everyone I know, but if it is truly to be an "archive" site...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marty McFly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2011 at 14:20

Well, be sure that Metal team here is working their arses off trying to evaluate and add hundreds of artists :-) Most of them are new groups.

But even if Within Temptation were here, it wouldn't mean that Winter in Eden would get here. If X is here then Y should rule can be applied only to some degree, not at all times.

Scorpions were mentioned few times in past, but never made it here.



Edited by Marty McFly - June 15 2011 at 14:25
There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2011 at 14:45


Progrockfreak, in my case, I can't admit this band as Symphonic when there isn't a slight connection with the genre, in my opinion is not even remotely Prog, but I can't say a word about Prog Metal, because they have autonomy  that I respect.

Originally posted by ProgrockFreak ProgrockFreak wrote:

So many great bands that are quite widely considered as having prog leanings at the very least can't be found on here other than in forum discussions 


Now, you may believe a band is Prog or has Prog leanings, but WINTER IN EDEN is not one of them no matter what you believe.

 I took the time to check other important and reliable Prog sites:


GEPR: Doesn't include the band.
Proggnosis: No mention of Winter in Eden
Progressive Ears: No mention of Winter in Eden
Progressor: They don't mention them
DPRP: They don't even know about this band


Checked Google and apart from their website, the only other page that mentions them is "Sonic Cathedral .Com (Where the Women of METAL rock)".....Incredibly they say that Winter in Eden is more Gothic than Rock.

So the fact you believe they are Prog, doesn't make Winter in Eden "WIDELY CONSIDERED AS HAVING PROG LEANINGS), as a fact, the Prog community and reliable Prog sites don't consider them Prog..

Originally posted by Progrockfreak Progrockfreak wrote:

Even bands that were rejected by the Collaborators should get a brief page on here explaining why - a simple page that would turn up in a Google search for them made by a casual user interested in finding out about them,


  1. What would be really misleading, is to open a page for every non Prog band that is rejected by Prog Archives, we would have tons of mentions in Google, pointing to non Prog bands.....If we had done this some time ago, bands as Bee Gees, Eagles, Earth Wind & Fire or artists like Elton John, Billy Joel and Cat Stevens who in some moment were suggested, would appear each time you Google Progarchives, just to say "They were rejected", this would lead people to believe this bands are somehow related to Prog and that would not be truth.

  2. FYI: The Symphonic team had an open page in which we explained people why a band was added, rejected or moved...In six months we had 10 visits, all of them by special collaborators who could see this page in the Collaborators section where we have it now...Most people only care for the band they like

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - June 15 2011 at 14:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progrockfreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2011 at 14:57
I know everyone is doing their best. The site has its limitations, as it surely must run purely by volunteers in their spare time. I can't comment on the criteria by which artists are judged because I have no involvement in the process. I understand it is ultimately done by a democratic vote once everyone has had their say. That seems fair enough to me. If enough people with sufficient expertise in the genre concerned get to cast their vote, then the result should be accepted. It's just a shame that so much decent music that is perhaps only arguably within the framework of what you guys accept as 'prog' gets lost along the way. I guess we will always have to rely on sites like rateyourmusic.com for the "ones that get away". This album by Winter In Eden so far has just one review in French on that site...and not a particularly complimentary one either!!
 
Each to our own eh?
 
Edit: The previous post appeared before I had finished submitting this.
 
I didn't want to imply that Winter In Eden in particular were widely considered as having prog leanings. They are hardly known at the moment ANYWHERE!!  I was referring here to other artists such as Yngwie Malmsteen who have dozens of albums behind them, newer bands like Elbow who are quite highly regarded in some proggy circles, and just look at the struggle there was to get Mike Batt added! On the other side of the coin, David Gilmour doesn't really consider Pink Floyd as being prog - but THEY got in ok!
The reason that so few sites mention this band probably has as much to do with their lack of exposure as any perceived lack of prog credentials. There ARE some other very good reviews out there besides the Sonic Cathedral one:
 
These are just listings one to five from the first page that google gives you when you type the album title followed by the word 'review' in.
 
 
 
 
 
 
All really excellent, & while I agree they are not prog sites but sites that specialise in metal, does it mean that just because an album is first and foremost perceived as metal it totally excludes it from being evaluated for possible prog content?
 
Just to show how subjective and widely open to personal interpretation all this actually is, compare those five excellent reviews with the one that follows them in the list: (warning: not to be read if there are minors in the area - this review doesn't mince words...)
 
 
Hard to believe it's the same album being reviewed really, but there you are.
 
I'm sorry if I've offended anyone by suggesting this is prog when you all clearly consider that it is not. I still hope someone on here will enjoy the clips I have uploaded and maybe check out some more of the album's content. The band deserve to be heard more widely as far as I'm concerned. So far not a single band that I have suggested in the past 6 months has made it onto the site - perhaps I had better restrict myself to more general sites in future, like the other one I mentioned above, and leave the 'prog' to the experts.
After all, as well as all the really excellent music that this site champions, there also a hell of a lot of music on here and classed as prog that is NOWHERE NEAR as enjoyable to listen to as Winter In Eden.
 
Thank goodness that in the final analysis we can all choose what we want to listen to irrespective of what the experts classify it as.
 
Good luck Winter In Eden - at least I'm with you.


Edited by progrockfreak - June 15 2011 at 16:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2011 at 16:37
Originally posted by progrockfreak progrockfreak wrote:

It's just a shame that so much decent music that is perhaps only arguably within the framework of what you guys accept as 'prog' gets lost along the way. I guess we will always have to rely on sites like rateyourmusic.com for the "ones that get away". This album by Winter In Eden so far has just one review in French on that site...and not a particularly complimentary one either!!
 
Each to our own eh?

That's an important point Progrockfreak, this is a Prog site, so we must be sure a band is Prog before adding them to our database, then see in which sub-genre fits best.

Prog is not an award for goiod music, the great and even  the decent music may be added to a different database, I won't ask Punk 77 to add Yes or Genesis to their database because it's great music, they have to add only bands they are sure is Punk, in the same way we must be careful..

In this case I'm the more radical of the Symphonic Team (IMO at least 5% of the bands here are not Prog), but Scott and Torodd's votes are worth as much as mine, if a band gets 2 votes it's in, even if don't agree.

But in the case of this band:

  1. I'm not sure if it's Prog, Prog Related or simply not Prog, so I give them a chance.
  2. After a first listen, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to notice they are not Symphonic at all. so I have to say no for Symphonic, if Prog Metal or Prog Related admits them, I have nothing to say.

But I went a step forward, if a band is Prog, most likely will already be in GEPR, Proggnosis, Progressiveears (God, they have admitted The Wings and William Shatner) and Progressor.

But they aren't in any other Prog site (At least 2 of them are more open than us),  it's very unlikely they are a Prog band

Now, lets see the sites you present:

Quote These are just listings one to five from the first page that google gives you when you type the album title followed by the word 'review' in.
 
 http://www.rocktopia.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&catid=910:cd-reviews&id=817:winter-in-eden-awakening&Itemid=121 GENERAL ROCK SITE they say the band can't make a decent chorus.
 
http://www.myspace.com/ravenheartmusic/blog/534062732 General Rock Blog, they say it's a Goth band

http://www.femmemetal.net/winterinedenawakeningrev.htm Exclusively Metal Feminine site, your band needs to play metal and have a female vocalist...BTW: They say they are not sure if this band is Symphonic Metal (Not Prog in most cases) or Gothic Metal 
 
http://www.midlandsrocks.co.uk/reviews/album-reviews/winter-in-eden---the-awakening This site compares Winter in Eden with Evanescence, in other words a combination of Metal and Goth and also with Within Temptation, a Dark Goth Dutch band. 
 
http://www.metalstorm.net/pub/review.php?review_id=8425  Metalstorm considers them a Metal Female Fronted band



It's clear,. they don't belong here.

Iván
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Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - June 15 2011 at 17:00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progrockfreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2011 at 17:08
Indeed, it seems not...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CCVP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2011 at 18:43
I agree they don't belong here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonnek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2011 at 01:35

The lamp telleth the truth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CCVP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2011 at 17:46
Originally posted by Bonnek Bonnek wrote:


The lamp telleth the truth.


Listen to da baby.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rock-On Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2011 at 09:42
Hi All,
I've just stumbled on this site as I was looking for WIE after seeing them at the Robin2 as well.

Its a hard call, as I think they branch into a few styles, from metal, prog, a chunk of rock, even a bit of a commercial edge (which isn't a bad thing). I must say they do have an style of their own.  I don't think the video clips are the best example of their proggy side.  The Awakening track probably shows that genre off better.  I suppose a description of a bands style is for the individual listener to decide. 
In anycase, I was really impressed with their performance and even though I love CREDO, they where a breath of fresh air.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yam yam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2011 at 23:55
I have the "Awakening" album, and it is a cracker if you like female fronted metal-oriented acts. The style does indeed vary from track to track - veering towards metal one minute, to something more akin to Panic Room and similar bands the next. Is it actually prog? In places probably not, in others possibly yes. They're playing at The Ravenheart Rock Festival at the Asylum 2, Birmingham, UK, later today (9th July) if anyone local wants to check them out live. For those that DO like this style of music, another very similar UK band (from Kent) is Crimson Tears. They are not very active at the moment, though still together, and did just one album in 2007 called "The Dark Awakening" They too are not on Progarchves, and I doubt that it's worth starting a topic for them since their style is so similar to Winter In Eden (even the title of the album is similar!), but for anyone interested, here's the 1st track from their album: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uErdRUEBKSU
 
 
For anyone wishing to hear more, there are other tracks from this album on YouTube (all of them in fact), as well as some live vids.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rock-On Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2011 at 07:10
Quite agree.  Well it's got people talking about these bands anyway.  I'll try to get there


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richie Music Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2011 at 10:35
I think this is just getting silly.
 
You've made your point.  I've noticed that you are now gunning for the band.  This forum is nothing to do with them so its not their fault they have been rightly or wrongly been posted here.
 
I think you're quotes are also bias.  When making quotes to back up your argument please do not trunkate them to put a negative or positive slant to bolster your opinion.  The full quote from Rocktopia is,
 
"I still remember initially giving this a quick audition in the company of our esteemed editor and his comment “they will be positively dangerous if they could write a decent chorus” continues to flay me after giving the album more than half a dozen listens – because this CD is absolutely dripping with warm, gorgeous melodies, stunning arrangements and a quintessential flair"
 
I think that is a little different  to "they can't write  a decent chorus",  that wasn't the opinion or intention of the reviewer.
 
I've only joined because I saw them at the Ravenheart Festival and they stood out head and shoulders over ther rest of the bands there.  After searching for them I came across this forum.
 
Prog or not, I think they are a band to watch.
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