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Zombywoof View Drop Down
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    Posted: May 03 2012 at 14:39
Originally posted by dtguitarfan

Originally posted by Anthony

The whole discography of Steven Wilson is overrated.

Though I hope you aren't including all of Porcupine Tree, I would wholeheartedly agree on his solo albums. I was really expecting great things from his latest, the way people around here built it up and it was just so...boring!


Strange. "Grace for Drowning" is the first Steve Wilson project that made me understand why people love his music so much. I still can't get into Porcupine Tree at all. Just seems like cliched metal riffs, to me. Doesn't capture my imagination and hold on like "Raider II", "Deform to Form a Star", and "Remainder the Black Dog".
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dtguitarfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2012 at 14:43
Originally posted by Horizons

*insert generic DT insult here*
*insert generic statement about the irrelevance of Billboard 100 and Musical Awards*

Say whatever you will but to every fan of DT, that is a victory you can never take away. They earned every sale - not like the usual Billboard chart albums, which made it onto the charts because super rich record companies paid radio stations to play their artists' songs over and over throughout the day, brainwashing people into buying their albums. No, without any radio play, Dream Theater beat the system and earned attention on their musical prowess alone! And unless your favorite band goes by the name of Rush, I'm going to say that if Dream Theater had never existed, it's highly likely they either wouldn't still be recording or maybe never would have gotten a recording contract in the first place. No, my friend, this is the story of a band defying the system and winning and nothing you say can take away THAT victory.   

Edited by dtguitarfan - May 03 2012 at 14:44
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Alitare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2012 at 14:47
Originally posted by Snow Dog

^No, boring is A (non)Dramatic Turn Of Events

I agree. I also agree about Steve Wilson in and out of Porcupine Tree. I think I liked one song in his entire career.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dtguitarfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2012 at 14:49
Originally posted by ole-the-first


Originally posted by dtguitarfan

Originally posted by Snow Dog

^No, boring is A (non)Dramatic Turn Of Events

Which is why it sold enough copies to make it to 6th place overall
on Amazon, and 8th place on the Billboard charts, and get a grammy nod,
something Steve Wilson will never be able to say.

Commercial success doesn't make a good album out of a record. Do you know how many copies Justin Bieber has sold?'A Dramatic Turn of Events' is a real disappointment, the weakest Dream Theater album for 10 years and more.And Wilson's 'Grace for Drowning' is the best album of 2011.Yes, I'm a Steven Wilson fan.



Yes, Justin Bieber sold millions of records because he has a cute face that his record company paid milliins of dollars to plaster everywhere, brainwashing people (teenage girls) with no knowledge of music into thinking he has talent. None of that can be said of Dream Theater. And you are totally wrong about the weakness of the album - they still mix up the musical metres like no one else and play riffs that most musicians would say are not humanly possible.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Horizons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2012 at 15:00
It's honestly just a difference in musical tastes. That's okay.

You say you like them for their musical theory brilliance and technicality, but sometimes these executions make it all seem stale to me. I rather listen to The Final Cut dozens of times than  Scenes From A Memory. 
It's just preference. 

I also think that DT's role in the development of Prog Metal has caused them to lack any other influences, and it's sad that they still haven't adopted any. I prefer Riverside, Ancestors, Isis, Mastodon, Russian Circles because all these bands have multiple colors on their canvases. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dtguitarfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2012 at 15:06
If you say Dream Theater does not have multiple colors on their canvas, you haven't listened to their catalog, plain and simple.
I'm cool with you having different tastes and admitting it. But I'm just saying: 20 years down the road a bunch of old farts will be on this forum still talking about Dream Theater, and insulting whoever the big name is then, but there's going to be a whole lot of other names that will hardly be talked about. And that's an underdog victory story, not a typical Billboard Chart story.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Zombywoof Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2012 at 15:07
Originally posted by Horizons


You say you like them for their musical theory brilliance and technicality, but sometimes these executions make it all seem stale to me. I rather listen to The Final Cut dozens of times than  Scenes From A Memory. 
It's just preference. 


I agree. DT used to be one of my favorite bands until I started to get into King Crimson. Crimson captured me and I've never been able to return to DT. Bands like Crim, Floyd, Tull, and Magma have so much passion and emotion, its hard for me to return to the technically efficient, yet rather cold Dream Theater.

By the way, I've heard "Final Cut" about 100x more than "Scenes" ... I like it better, too.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Horizons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2012 at 15:12
Originally posted by dtguitarfan

If you say Dream Theater does not have multiple colors on their canvas, you haven't listened to their catalog, plain and simple.
I'm cool with you having different tastes and admitting it. But I'm just saying: 20 years down the road a bunch of old farts will be on this forum still talking about Dream Theater, and insulting whoever the big name is then, but there's going to be a whole lot of other names that will hardly be talked about. And that's an underdog victory story, not a typical Billboard Chart story.

Are you going to tell me that DT has more styles than the cliche prog metal sound? It may vary in heaviness, excluding any ballads or intros, but it's overall very similar. 

BTW i do not hate DT. I have some of their albums. My favorites being Awake, FII, and Six Degrees.

But nowadays i rarely listen to them.  Like i stated before - they're stale to me now. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dtguitarfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2012 at 15:18
Originally posted by Horizons


Originally posted by dtguitarfan

If you say Dream Theater does not have multiple colors on their canvas, you haven't listened to their catalog, plain and simple.
I'm cool with you having different tastes and admitting it. But I'm just saying: 20 years down the road a bunch of old farts will be on this forum still talking about Dream Theater, and insulting whoever the big name is then, but there's going to be a whole lot of other names that will hardly be talked about. And that's an underdog victory story, not a typical Billboard Chart story.

Are you going to tell me that DT has more styles than the cliche prog metal sound? It may vary in heaviness, excluding any ballads or intros, but it's overall very similar. 
BTW i do not hate DT. I have some of their albums. My favorites being Awake, FII, and Six Degrees.
But nowadays i rarely listen to them.  Like i stated before - they're stale to me now. 

AHA! EXCLUDING BALLADS AND INTROS?! Even you are admitting they have more than one color in their pallate there! Now, they may choose to use many colors in the same song, and you're just picking out the fact that most songs employ the color black, but that's not the same as only using one color...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Horizons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2012 at 15:24
I can't have a decent argument with you. Ermm

Your blind faith to DT makes it impossible. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dtguitarfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2012 at 16:15
Originally posted by Horizons

I can't have a decent argument with you. Ermm

Your blind faith to DT makes it impossible. 

Yes, clearly this is a band that only plays "typical" Progressive Metal - a band that has only one color on their palette:


Ok, suppose we were talking about movie directors, and I came on here and said that Tim Burton only had one color on his palette.  I'm sure there would be people who agreed with me.  But then there would be people who would say that's preposterous, and with good reason as Batman is definitely very different from Alice and Wonderland.  YES, there is a darkness and a strangeness that is recognizable as Tim Burton's style and is in most of his movies.  But to say his palette has one color....

By the way, right after I finished writing this post, I started playing "Beneath the Surface" and asked my wife if she'd say this was typical Progressive Metal.  She does NOT like Dream Theater, by the way.  She said to me "I don't think there's anything metal about this.  Who is this?"  I said "this is Dream Theater."  She said "THIS is Dream Theater?  Is that the same singer they always have?!!"  I said yes.  I think I proved this band has more than one color on their palette....  Wink LOL


Edited by dtguitarfan - May 03 2012 at 16:28
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2012 at 01:29
Originally posted by wilmon91

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M


I hate Larks Tongues in Aspic, but this doesn't mean it's overrated, if so many Progheads believe it's a masterpiece, it must have something that I haven't been able to find.
 
It must have? No, I don't agree. You may disagree with a larger majority and still be able to grasp what it is that so many others like about it. Or else you may only speculate, and you may miss the point, but not necessarily.
 
I don't "understand" Larks Tongues ....................but I suspect that the appreciation is based more on rational thinking than pure feeling. It seems to get across a feeling of being very advanced. I don't "get" LTIA, but I can't assume that I lack the ability to do so.
 
And with that said, I think people may call something "overrated" or "underrated" - from their point of view. But you need to be very convinced before saying so.And since the general opinion is always slowly changing, it is fair to assume that most things are to different degrees overrated or underrated and rarely "perfectly" rated.

I know this is off-the-topic, but just so that you know that from my experience Larks is exactly about feeling, not braininess.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote wilmon91 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2012 at 07:48
^ Okay, if you say so  Smile .
 
I don't think it's off topic...it's about the subject of overrated songs. But I didn't say LTIA was overrated though.... although I do suspect it.  I should probably read some reviews of it, it could give me some understanding.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Horizons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2012 at 10:28
Originally posted by dtguitarfan

Originally posted by Horizons

I can't have a decent argument with you. Ermm

Your blind faith to DT makes it impossible. 

Yes, clearly this is a band that only plays "typical" Progressive Metal - a band that has only one color on their palette:


Ok, suppose we were talking about movie directors, and I came on here and said that Tim Burton only had one color on his palette.  I'm sure there would be people who agreed with me.  But then there would be people who would say that's preposterous, and with good reason as Batman is definitely very different from Alice and Wonderland.  YES, there is a darkness and a strangeness that is recognizable as Tim Burton's style and is in most of his movies.  But to say his palette has one color....


Yes like Tim Burton, DT has shown 2 "different" styles. To me these styles are a typical prog metal sound they helped elevate, and a typical ballad. The 2nd video you posted sound a lot like Another Day honestly. The first one being just a simple ballad - acoustic guitar themes, lacking/simplistic drums, etc etc. This is another case that has risen from the release of DT's newest release. It is being called a "rehash" of Images and Words. It has some good cases, and shows that they NEED to get some more influences, because even their fans are recognizing it. I won't take a big stand on these accusations, i simply want to post them.  




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Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2012 at 10:33
I think DT need to deconstruct themselves and then construct again from the ground up. I think they fear to do it though. They have made a comparitive success and are afraid to lose it. A victim of their own success in a way. Portnoy was right. The band need a break.

Edited by Snow Dog - May 05 2012 at 10:34
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Horizons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2012 at 10:36
Originally posted by Snow Dog

I think DT need to deconstruct themselves and then construct again from the ground up. I think they fear to do it though. They have made a comparitive success and are afraid to lose it. A victim of their own success in a way. Portnoy was right. The band need a break.

Agreed.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ole-the-first Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2012 at 10:37
Originally posted by Snow Dog

I think DT need to deconstruct themselves and then construct again from the ground up. I think they fear to do it though. They have made a comparitive success and are afraid to lose it. A victim of their own success in a way. Portnoy was right. The band need a break.

Exactly.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dtguitarfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2012 at 10:47
Saying Dream Theater produces "typical progressive metal" is like saying they produce typical diamonds....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2012 at 10:55
Originally posted by dtguitarfan

Saying Dream Theater produces "typical progressive metal" is like saying they produce typical diamonds....


Diamonds for you, my friend.   Everybody has their own tastes, so let's not assume the 'lack' of DT appreciation is some great loss for the concerned listeners.  And yes, I am yet another guy who liked I&W and Awake and have gradually lost interest in the band.  I do apologize for that crime in advance.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dtguitarfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2012 at 11:32
Originally posted by rogerthat

Originally posted by dtguitarfan

Saying Dream Theater produces "typical progressive metal" is like saying they produce typical diamonds....


Diamonds for you, my friend.   Everybody has their own tastes, so let's not assume the 'lack' of DT appreciation is some great loss for the concerned listeners.  And yes, I am yet another guy who liked I&W and Awake and have gradually lost interest in the band.  I do apologize for that crime in advance.

Dude, you're never going to beat me: I'm incorrigible! LOL Evil Smile

I hear you about losing interest after IaW and Awake, and you know what?  That's fine, because Dream Theater still wins in the situation you described!  You like some of their albums!  They win!  I personally don't like Train of Thought...but Snowdog loves it!  They win!  Some of you don't care about ADCoE, but it sold enough copies to make it to #8 on the Billboard top selling albums, and #6 on Amazon overall, and they got a Grammy nomination!  Without any radio play!  They win!  Horizons doesn't think there's any difference between the ballads on ADCoE but my wife actually likes them (and she always complains when I play DT) - THEY WIN!
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