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Junges View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 11 2011 at 01:37
Originally posted by frippism

For those of you who haven't listened to Cardiacs in the shallowest of shallow definitions you could describe them isa mix prog and punk (or pronk by many). To say the very very least- I like Cardiacs. A LOT. And you know when I saw something like a bad review for Cardiacs it's like "IMPOSIBRUUUUU!!!". But I'm really interested to hear why people actually don't like Cardiacs, because I'm yet to understand from the negative reviews what's not to like... By the way this isn't another I'm smarter than you because my opinions are better thread... I'm just really curious... I am smarter than you though...
Why? You don't need to justify your personal tastes. Like Zappa said:

"If it sounds GOOD to YOU, it's bitchen; and if it sounds BAD to YOU, it's
sh*tty."
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Posts: 3679 		Post Options Post Options   Quote frippism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2011 at 01:42
^ well no I'd rather think that my tastes don't include all good music, if I may disagree with the Zappa. I don't want to justify my personal taste, I just am curious why other people don't enjoy them, because usually the rating of the albums are either 5 or 1 stars and hardly ever 4 stars. So it seems like they a love/hate band and I never really had a discussion with the hate side, and so I'm curious to what they will say.
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Posts: 6029 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2011 at 02:11
Originally posted by frippism

Also:



I really liked the music for the Duck and Roger the Horse (there's a lot of hours gone into harnessing such whimsical flights of fancy to sound as incredibly  tightly reined as they do)


Didn't enjoy Filth-13-Will Bleed Amen nearly as much, and as richrdh says, I think a whole album of Smith's vocals might have my furry manboobs in the wringer by the end.

A very talented and original band, no contest (who cares what it states on the museum plaque after the fact?)
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Posts: 5935 		Post Options Post Options   Quote The Hemulen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2011 at 02:38
Originally posted by ExittheLemming


None of this really matters of course, hey ho, the more good bands we have on PA the better but I would imagine there are more than a few (grey) eyebrows raised when the Cardiacs are mentioned in the same breath as RIO/Avant.


Yep, including mine. I may be one of PA's resident Cardiacs fanboys but I've never been comfortable with the Avant-Prog tag. Cardiacs just do their own thing, though, and when "doing your own thing" becomes a bit too far out for Eclectic they usually end up in A-P.

I've said this before, though not necessarily on this forum, that despite generally subscribing to a view of taste as being purely subjective (i.e. there's no such thing as objectively, indisputably "good" music) I do struggle with this viewpoint when it comes to Cardiacs. It's hard for me to read bad reviews because I just can't help thinking "You didn't listen to it properly! Give it another spin or two and it'll all make sense, I promise!". Cardiacs are my one sacred cow.
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Posts: 51226 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Vompatti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2011 at 02:48
Originally posted by Henry Plainview

Cardiacs- most controversial band?

No, not even close. Most people don't even care about them.
This.
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Posts: 17190 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Henry Plainview Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2011 at 03:11
 
Originally posted by frippism

^ well no I'd rather think that my tastes don't include all good music,

Good music does not exist. 
because usually the rating of the albums are either 5 or 1 stars and hardly ever 4 stars. So it seems like they a love/hate band and I never really had a discussion with the hate side, and so I'm curious to what they will say.

This perception is incorrect, although I guess the extremely low number of ratings skews the mind. Sing to God is 26% and A Little Man is 19% 4 star ratings. That's a higher percentage of 4 stars than CTTE, SEBTP, Foxtrot, TAAB, WYWH, ITCOTCK, DSOTM, Animals, Red, Godbluff, Si On Avait, Pawn Hearts, Terria, Crimson, Images and Words, and Scenes from a Memory. ;-) The Seaside is 40, Songs for Ships 38, Heaven Born 46, Guns 36, and On Land and Sea 50, some of those are well above the 30-40% range of 4 star ratings many of the big name albums hover at. 

But almost nobody has bothered to rate Cardiacs at all, you can't extrapolate much from the PA ratings. There are only 224 ratings for the whole discography, that's less than the new Phideaux album. 
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Posts: 26021 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2011 at 05:06
Originally posted by Vompatti

Originally posted by Henry Plainview

Cardiacs- most controversial band?

No, not even close. Most people don't even care about them.
This.

Controversy is proportional to how well known an artist is.  They have a long way to go. LOL
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Posts: 28726 		Post Options Post Options   Quote SaltyJon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2011 at 11:50
Originally posted by The Hemulen

Originally posted by ExittheLemming


None of this really matters of course, hey ho, the more good bands we have on PA the better but I would imagine there are more than a few (grey) eyebrows raised when the Cardiacs are mentioned in the same breath as RIO/Avant.


Yep, including mine. I may be one of PA's resident Cardiacs fanboys but I've never been comfortable with the Avant-Prog tag. Cardiacs just do their own thing, though, and when "doing your own thing" becomes a bit too far out for Eclectic they usually end up in A-P.

This is what I was going to mention...I saw a very old Cardiacs thread from PA, and that seems to be what happened.  They didn't fit anywhere else, so they were placed in Avant Prog. 
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Posts: 3679 		Post Options Post Options   Quote frippism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2011 at 12:33
Originally posted by Slartibartfast

Originally posted by Vompatti

Originally posted by Henry Plainview

Cardiacs- most controversial band?

No, not even close. Most people don't even care about them.
This.

Controversy is proportional to how well known an artist is.  They have a long way to go. LOL

Well sure but with that I think that the people who have listened to them have a bit of a split, though while many enjoy Cardiacs, there's quite a few that don't, and it interests me to know what's not to like.
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Posts: 3679 		Post Options Post Options   Quote frippism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2011 at 12:35
Originally posted by The Hemulen



Yep, including mine. I may be one of PA's resident Cardiacs fanboys but I've never been comfortable with the Avant-Prog tag. Cardiacs just do their own thing, though, and when "doing your own thing" becomes a bit too far out for Eclectic they usually end up in A-P.

I've said this before, though not necessarily on this forum, that despite generally subscribing to a view of taste as being purely subjective (i.e. there's no such thing as objectively, indisputably "good" music) I do struggle with this viewpoint when it comes to Cardiacs. It's hard for me to read bad reviews because I just can't help thinking "You didn't listen to it properly! Give it another spin or two and it'll all make sense, I promise!". Cardiacs are my one sacred cow.

I totally agree. It's like I'm a complete liberal and let everybody express their opinion, but whenever someone says something bad about Cardiacs I'm all: "You die NOWWWWW!!" All up in his face.
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Posts: 27702 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Padraic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2011 at 12:43
Originally posted by frippism

Originally posted by The Hemulen



Yep, including mine. I may be one of PA's resident Cardiacs fanboys but I've never been comfortable with the Avant-Prog tag. Cardiacs just do their own thing, though, and when "doing your own thing" becomes a bit too far out for Eclectic they usually end up in A-P.

I've said this before, though not necessarily on this forum, that despite generally subscribing to a view of taste as being purely subjective (i.e. there's no such thing as objectively, indisputably "good" music) I do struggle with this viewpoint when it comes to Cardiacs. It's hard for me to read bad reviews because I just can't help thinking "You didn't listen to it properly! Give it another spin or two and it'll all make sense, I promise!". Cardiacs are my one sacred cow.

I totally agree. It's like I'm a complete liberal and let everybody express their opinion, but whenever someone says something bad about Cardiacs I'm all: "You die NOWWWWW!!" All up in his face.


You must be a hit at parties.
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Posts: 27907 		Post Options Post Options   Quote stonebeard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2011 at 12:52
I have no opinion on them.

I was going to post that I dislike them, but on reflection, I realized I never cared enough to try listening to them.

And I still don't. Smoke
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Posts: 26021 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2011 at 18:25
Originally posted by stonebeard

I have no opinion on them.

I was going to post that I dislike them, but on reflection, I realized I never cared enough to try listening to them.

And I still don't. Smoke


OK, we're going to have to put you under Cardiac arrest.

I actually haven't tried listening to them either. 


Edited by Slartibartfast - July 11 2011 at 18:29
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Posts: 2373 		Post Options Post Options   Quote infocat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2011 at 23:31
Originally posted by frippism

Also:



Never heard them before.  Interesting!  Like Queen doing punk.  (I see one of the YouTube commentators had the same thought.)
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Posts: 3679 		Post Options Post Options   Quote frippism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2011 at 05:06
Originally posted by Padraic

Originally posted by frippism

Originally posted by The Hemulen



Yep, including mine. I may be one of PA's resident Cardiacs fanboys but I've never been comfortable with the Avant-Prog tag. Cardiacs just do their own thing, though, and when "doing your own thing" becomes a bit too far out for Eclectic they usually end up in A-P.

I've said this before, though not necessarily on this forum, that despite generally subscribing to a view of taste as being purely subjective (i.e. there's no such thing as objectively, indisputably "good" music) I do struggle with this viewpoint when it comes to Cardiacs. It's hard for me to read bad reviews because I just can't help thinking "You didn't listen to it properly! Give it another spin or two and it'll all make sense, I promise!". Cardiacs are my one sacred cow.

I totally agree. It's like I'm a complete liberal and let everybody express their opinion, but whenever someone says something bad about Cardiacs I'm all: "You die NOWWWWW!!" All up in his face.


You must be a hit at parties.

Parties, psh... that's for rockers. I'm an intellectual Cool with sunglasses.
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Posts: 8206 		Post Options Post Options   Quote CPicard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2011 at 05:42
Originally posted by infocat

Originally posted by frippism

Also:



Never heard them before.  Interesting!  Like Queen doing punk.  (I see one of the YouTube commentators had the same thought.)


I would have rather said Frank Zappa working with the Beatles for a punk-rock project.
My little sister is a fan... Well, at least, she has the two CD-R I burned with the mp3 that the band gave on their website.
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Posts: 1103 		Post Options Post Options   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2011 at 03:53
Originally posted by infocat

 Like Queen doing punk.
 
Quunk!!
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Posts: 1602 		Post Options Post Options   Quote himtroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2011 at 10:08
I've never heard the most controversial band.  Sounds like something I don't want to hear either....poppy or punk will not be saved by prog elements.  All pop is inherently bad, all prog not inherently good.
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Posts: 3679 		Post Options Post Options   Quote frippism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2011 at 10:46
*GIGANTIC FACE PALM* Don't judge until you listen. Punk isn't necessarily pop and pop isn't necessarily bad and you're hearing that from one who enjoys avant and listens to it regularly. Cardiacs aren't pop they are Cardiacs. And the fact they can write good tunes can count as pop, for example: Caravan, DT, PT, Soft Machine, can write pretty tunes which are pop tinged, does that mean that they're any less prog? Cardiacs are just the best songwriters.
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Posts: 28726 		Post Options Post Options   Quote SaltyJon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2011 at 10:52
Opinions founded on no experience have no meaning to me, and we've provided quite a few samples of Cardiacs to listen to throughout the thread.  Listen to some of those, THEN make an opinion on the band, and I'll actually care (not whether or not you like them, but that you have an opinion on them).
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