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kingcrimsonfan View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 25 2011 at 13:46
i really dont get it the nice on most of their albums are getting bad reviews i dont get why their sound is innovative yet people depreciate them here in progarchives o just dont get it
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ExittheLemming View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2011 at 13:59
Both ELP and by lazy association, the Nice receive their share of bashing on PA. Lee Jackson's vocals certainly polarise opinion and the rather sloppy production on the 1st two albums might put some people off.

Just to prove the coverage they get is not all negative:

http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=173203
http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=169587
http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=264310
http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=170215




Edited by ExittheLemming - July 25 2011 at 14:00
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crimhead View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crimhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2011 at 14:03
It would have been interesting to have seen The Nice with ELP in concert.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2011 at 14:46

I don't think the association with ELP is the reason. Most of the Nice albums are messy and poorly produced and generally unfocused affairs. The best CD releases by them are the compilations/rarities and box sets that have been released in recent years.Its hard to get that excited about their original albums. Even then it was well known that The Nice as a live band were where it was at. Emerson openly admitted he was not happy with the poor production on albums like Ars Longa Vita Brevis. Get the BBC sessions CD and you have a much better clue about made The Nice one of the most exciting live bands of the late sixties regularly appearing on Top Gear (ironically hosted by the most famous 'ELP hater' John Peel). Keith Emerson was destined for bigger things though and later on The Nice turned into Refugee and made one the best symphonic prog albums of the seventies in my view. Win win situation. 

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ExittheLemming View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2011 at 15:11
I think what I meant was that there might be some folks who approach the Nice expecting to hear something very similar to ELP (which they ain't in my book) As you state the production on the 1st two albums is very poor and lots of great music suffers as a result. However, the 3rd album simply called The Nice or in the US as Nice as  Mother Makes It  is an album that warrants getting excited over, and for me represents one of the most prescient and erm...credibly 'progressive' records of that period. I agree that the Nice were never able to replicate the magic they cast on stage from within the studio (as is borne out by half of The Nice being live cuts I guess) Five Bridges is also excellent and although somewhat flawed by Emerson's fleeting lapses into amateurish 'cartoon classical' simply blows similar efforts like Purple's Concerto and their own Ars Longa Vita Brevis clean out of the water.

Yep, the Refugee album is a 5 star belter from start to finish and unjustly neglected when people talk about the 'great and the good' in Symphonic Prog discussions.

The posthumous release Elegy from 1971 is well worth tracking down and I can never understand why it receives such a kicking from within PA. It contains perhaps the 'mother' of all live versions of America and Keith's extended piano improvisation on Hang On To A Dream is worth the admission price alone.

The Swedish Radio Sessions released in 2002 is a fascinating glimpse of the original lineup featuring O'List on guitar and the sound quality is remarkably good.


Edited by ExittheLemming - July 25 2011 at 15:21
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presdoug View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2011 at 15:33
with painful honesty, i must say that i have tried The NIce, and can't seem to appreciate them, no matter what period, live or studio
          I much prefer early ELP
     and it wasn't that i expected or needed them to sound like ELP, but i heard, and developed an affinity for ELP before, so i guess i was musically spoiled by ELPs greatness

        i have heard Refugee, but i can't get it either, and much  prefer  Moraz's  previous , very overlooked band Mainhorse
"and what music unites, man should not take apart"--Helmut Koellen                               
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ExittheLemming View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2011 at 15:38
^ Hey ho, different strokes etc I really liked the Mainhorse album but found it a tad erm...cheesey in places (but we would agree that on the evidence, Moraz was a keyboard giant just waiting to happen).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2011 at 17:19
Originally posted by kingcrimsonfan kingcrimsonfan wrote:

i really dont get it the nice on most of their albums are getting bad reviews i dont get why their sound is innovative yet people depreciate them here in progarchives o just dont get it

That's not very nice. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2011 at 18:06
to really dig the Nice you have to be fascinated by prog in its very earliest stage, otherwise they're a screechy joke who couldn't produce a record to save their life


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2011 at 01:29
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

I think what I meant was that there might be some folks who approach the Nice expecting to hear something very similar to ELP (which they ain't in my book) As you state the production on the 1st two albums is very poor and lots of great music suffers as a result. However, the 3rd album simply called The Nice or in the US as Nice as  Mother Makes It  is an album that warrants getting excited over, and for me represents one of the most prescient and erm...credibly 'progressive' records of that period. I agree that the Nice were never able to replicate the magic they cast on stage from within the studio (as is borne out by half of The Nice being live cuts I guess) Five Bridges is also excellent and although somewhat flawed by Emerson's fleeting lapses into amateurish 'cartoon classical' simply blows similar efforts like Purple's Concerto and their own Ars Longa Vita Brevis clean out of the water.

Yep, the Refugee album is a 5 star belter from start to finish and unjustly neglected when people talk about the 'great and the good' in Symphonic Prog discussions.

The posthumous release Elegy from 1971 is well worth tracking down and I can never understand why it receives such a kicking from within PA. It contains perhaps the 'mother' of all live versions of America and Keith's extended piano improvisation on Hang On To A Dream is worth the admission price alone.

The Swedish Radio Sessions released in 2002 is a fascinating glimpse of the original lineup featuring O'List on guitar and the sound quality is remarkably good.
 
Elegy is probably their best especially the reissue with the bonus tracks that were originally on Autumn 67 Spring 68.
 
The 3rd album The Nice does have one brilliant track called For Example which showed the Nice being very clever and inventive. There aren't enough tracks like that mainly because I think they spent too much time adapting other people's music like for instance Bob Dylans 'She Belongs To Me'.
 
Some small mention should be made of Davy O'List ,the guitarist who played on the debut album.The Nice were a much heavier and better balanced unit when he was there. Rondo for me is their best moment and had a big influence on Mike Rutherford and Tony Banks in coming up with the first Genesis classic track The Knife.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote giselle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2011 at 16:36
The concept of The Nice - a Rock organ trio - came from 1-2-3 (later Clouds). O'List was sacrificied for this concept.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2011 at 01:18
Originally posted by giselle giselle wrote:

The concept of The Nice - a Rock organ trio - came from 1-2-3 (later Clouds). O'List was sacrificied for this concept.
 
O'List was actually kicked out the group for similar reasons that Pink Floyd left Syd Barrett behind. I spoke to Davy about 6 years ago and he didn't have a bad word to say for Keith and I think was glad that he was given his 'wake up call'. Keith Emerson did toy with the idea of bringing Steve Howe into the band and they spent a day hanging out but in the end Howe decided he wanted to stay with the band he was in at the time (this was a good few years before Yes).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiamondDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2011 at 03:45
Yep, valid stuff in there, but the idea was to emulate 1-2-3 OK. Maybe it solved two problems at once.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2011 at 10:08
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

with painful honesty, i must say that i have tried The NIce, and can't seem to appreciate them, no matter what period, live or studio
          I much prefer early ELP
     and it wasn't that i expected or needed them to sound like ELP, but i heard, and developed an affinity for ELP before, so i guess i was musically spoiled by ELPs greatness

        i have heard Refugee, but i can't get it either, and much  prefer  Moraz's  previous , very overlooked band Mainhorse
Interesting to hear. I first heard them in the early 70's. I recall being very impressed with Keith Emerson's keyboard playing and "Five Bridges" is decent. However I could not handle Lee Jackson's vocal style. It was that reaction I had to Dave Lawson from Greenslade or even John Wetton in K.C. at times. It's a shame for me because Greenslade have some outstanding prog material, but as soon as his voice enters the picture I become a nut case wanting to pull my hair out.  How I am longing to hear something sweet and pure like Wayne Shorter's sax soloing.....or I'm running for the door. The only singer I thought highly of was Greg Lake simply because he could sing about the most pretentious subjects, yet put soul into it. He had a deepness to his voice that was the actual melodic characteristic of King Crimson. The Nice ....although not tasteful to me were innovators ...or....rather Emerson was....and then you have that historical moment with prog in the early 70's where bands like Beggar's Opera, Rare Bird  ...and the list goes on.....sounded a bit like the Nice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2011 at 10:38
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

with painful honesty, i must say that i have tried The NIce, and can't seem to appreciate them, no matter what period, live or studio
          I much prefer early ELP
     and it wasn't that i expected or needed them to sound like ELP, but i heard, and developed an affinity for ELP before, so i guess i was musically spoiled by ELPs greatness

        i have heard Refugee, but i can't get it either, and much  prefer  Moraz's  previous , very overlooked band Mainhorse
Interesting to hear. I first heard them in the early 70's. I recall being very impressed with Keith Emerson's keyboard playing and "Five Bridges" is decent. However I could not handle Lee Jackson's vocal style. It was that reaction I had to Dave Lawson from Greenslade or even John Wetton in K.C. at times. It's a shame for me because Greenslade have some outstanding prog material, but as soon as his voice enters the picture I become a nut case wanting to pull my hair out.  How I am longing to hear something sweet and pure like Wayne Shorter's sax soloing.....or I'm running for the door. The only singer I thought highly of was Greg Lake simply because he could sing about the most pretentious subjects, yet put soul into it. He had a deepness to his voice that was the actual melodic characteristic of King Crimson. The Nice ....although not tasteful to me were innovators ...or....rather Emerson was....and then you have that historical moment with prog in the early 70's where bands like Beggar's Opera, Rare Bird  ...and the list goes on.....sounded a bit like the Nice.
with the Greenslade i have heard, i find the vocal aspect long winded, and wish they would have concentrated more on their instrumental prowess. Glad you mentioned Beggar's Opera, TODDLER. I am a big fan of their first three albums, and the keyboard player Alan Park is awesome!
       Greg Lake is also very special to me, just in the way you have describedThumbs Up
"and what music unites, man should not take apart"--Helmut Koellen                               
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2011 at 14:34
Originally posted by DiamondDog DiamondDog wrote:

Yep, valid stuff in there, but the idea was to emulate 1-2-3 OK. Maybe it solved two problems at once.
 
Not sure about that but admittedly I can't refute it.I know one of Emerson's (and The Nice) big influences was this
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiamondDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2011 at 16:34
How interesting, thank you
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2011 at 19:08
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by DiamondDog DiamondDog wrote:

Yep, valid stuff in there, but the idea was to emulate 1-2-3 OK. Maybe it solved two problems at once.
 
Not sure about that but admittedly I can't refute it.I know one of Emerson's (and The Nice) big influences was this
 
I love Mort Garson! I wasn't fond of the Zodiac series or the Wozard of Iz, but I've owned just about everything from Mort Garson at one time or another. His electronic mass.....Lucifer/Black Mass is the most exciting and breathtaking electronic album in history for me. I was lucky to meet a sound tech in Philadelphia who transfered a clean LP copy on to disc for me. It's the music itself that I go for and not so much the subject matter in which the record revolves around. I love this guy! He had some truly orignal ideas on Black Mass. So exciting to read a post connected to his name. One of the main themes of the album was used to open a weekend radio program on WXPN in Philadelphia in the 70's. People who have yet to hear Black Mass would surely have a different impression of electronic music.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2011 at 02:05
I stumbled on this link with has quite a bit about Davy O'List including his time with Roxy Music and what he's up to now.
 
in the link is this:
Another album titled Undiscovered Treasures of never before released tracks from 1977 featuring Simon Phillips on drums on three tracks and others recorded later will also be released. One of those tracks is an interpretation and re-arrangement of 1-2-3 that Uncut magazine think sounds like a hit.
 
is this the same 1-2-3 mentioned above?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote giselle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2011 at 02:48
I think it's more likely to be the Len Barry hit of the same name; 1-2-3 was the early name of Clouds, whose history you can see here on Prog Archives. The irony in this post is that 1-2-3 specialised in re-arranging other people's songs (in the style later adopted by Yes - listen to 1-2-3's version of 'America' live at the Marquee some years before the Yes version).
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