Progarchives.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: What was it like in the 60's and 70's?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum SearchSearch  Calendar   Register Register  Login Login

What was it like in the 60's and 70's?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 171819
Author
Message
TODDLER View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2604
Post Options Post Options   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What was it like in the 60's and 70's?
    Posted: October 18 2013 at 07:33
Originally posted by Dean

[]
Any sceptic who disregards the experiences you relate as tall-tales would be wrong because the events you have described most certainly happened: Patrick Michael Newell, the kid who was bound with duct tape and drowned in a pond by two of his friends in 1971 really did drown in a pond in what was described at the time as "an assisted suicide" and as "a Satanic Ritual". That's evidence and a sceptic would never disregard evidence.
 
Richard Williams who assisted in the drowning told police that Michael belonged to a Satan worshippers sect and that he was merely introduced to his ideas and was not a member himself. He lived up the street from me and Michael used to tutor many of us in school. In several newspaper articles during that time, it was stated that police had confiscated evidence proving that there were 50 members present on the night Michael was murdered. That's why so many witnesses were questioned. There was evidence in Michael's room which led police to believe that this so called sect had members hiding in plainsight. They claimed the members belonged to the Chesnut Assembly of God church. There was no physical evidence on Michael's body and since the 2 boys admitted to the crime, everything else was disregarded as circumstantial evidence. Although police investigated for 2 years to prove otherwise. A Miami newspaper read that Pastor Harry Snook deprogrammed 90 teenage devil worshippers in 71'. He was the pastor of the Chestnut Assembly.
 
 
 That Newell dabbled in the occult is also considered to be evidence and no sceptic would dispute that. Where sceptics draw the line is in any conclusions drawn from that event that are not evidence-based, such as the connecting of unrelated events as being symptomatic of a wider conspiracy (née secret) of systematic (satanic) ritual abuse.

I knew some of the police officers who investigated the case because some of my friends had suffered through S.R.A. and had gotten involved with the Satan cult at Menantico. But there were other cults seperate from Michael's.
 
 Sceptics also question the belief that these events are the work of a devil, demon or any other supernatural phenomenon (such as demonic possesion) since that also lacks any evidence I for one..don't believe in any of it.
 
- sadistic morons in black cloaks are sadistic morons in black cloaks - in true Scooby Doo fashion, the only factual evidence is they are the janitor or the park-keeper or a local business man in fancy dress. That does not make them any less sadistic (or moronic).
 
I suppose...I find their act moronic. To believe in some God and use that for an excuse to torture vunerable people like my friends. I know what you're saying about the evidence, I know that in comparison to the newspapers version of the story...things were very different. I had hands on experiences with it and I suppose because what I actually witnessed is no longer available in publication, people doubt it. The on going investigation of an elderly wealthy sect , animal remains and other discoveries were in the front page of the Vineland Times Journal .. Those articles are not available on the net. Just the basic story and that's it.
Back to Top
TODDLER View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2604
Post Options Post Options   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2013 at 07:36
Originally posted by presdoug

^hey, Johnny, have you ever heard the seventies jazz-rock/krautrock band Dzyan? They are outasite!
Thank you Doug! I am going to check this band out. I've never heard of them..
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Albion
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 33059
Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2013 at 08:58
Originally posted by TODDLER

Originally posted by Dean

Any sceptic who disregards the experiences you relate as tall-tales would be wrong because the events you have described most certainly happened: Patrick Michael Newell, the kid who was bound with duct tape and drowned in a pond by two of his friends in 1971 really did drown in a pond in what was described at the time as "an assisted suicide" and as "a Satanic Ritual". That's evidence and a sceptic would never disregard evidence.
 
Richard Williams who assisted in the drowning told police that Michael belonged to a Satan worshippers sect and that he was merely introduced to his ideas and was not a member himself. He lived up the street from me and Michael used to tutor many of us in school. In several newspaper articles during that time, it was stated that police had confiscated evidence proving that there were 50 members present on the night Michael was murdered. That's why so many witnesses were questioned. There was evidence in Michael's room which led police to believe that this so called sect had members hiding in plainsight. They claimed the members belonged to the Chesnut Assembly of God church. There was no physical evidence on Michael's body and since the 2 boys admitted to the crime, everything else was disregarded as circumstantial evidence. Although police investigated for 2 years to prove otherwise. A Miami newspaper read that Pastor Harry Snook deprogrammed 90 teenage devil worshippers in 71'. He was the pastor of the Chestnut Assembly.

Sorry, you've confused me: Are you saying that members of the Chestnut Assembly of God were behind this secret satanic cult and their pastor deprogrammed 90 teenage devil worshippers...?
 
Now my sceptic ears prick-up. When investigations like this start chasing their own tail I get curious, was/is this church part of the charismatic movement? Cults are created on fear and by spreading fear - in order to defeat a demon you have to first create one - satan is a creation of the christian religion. In the 70s I had direct contact with a christian commune affiliated with the charismatic movement and know how they operate - there was no physical abuse but a lot of psychological "pressure".
 
Originally posted by TODDLER

Originally posted by Dean

 
- sadistic morons in black cloaks are sadistic morons in black cloaks - in true Scooby Doo fashion, the only factual evidence is they are the janitor or the park-keeper or a local business man in fancy dress. That does not make them any less sadistic (or moronic).
 
I suppose...I find their act moronic. To believe in some God and use that for an excuse to torture vunerable people like my friends. I know what you're saying about the evidence, I know that in comparison to the newspapers version of the story...things were very different. I had hands on experiences with it and I suppose because what I actually witnessed is no longer available in publication, people doubt it. The on going investigation of an elderly wealthy sect , animal remains and other discoveries were in the front page of the Vineland Times Journal .. Those articles are not available on the net. Just the basic story and that's it.
Unpublished and currently unavailable evidence is still evidence. The problem with such evidence from a rational, investigative examination is that it is primarily anecdotal (even when published in a newspaper ... especially so when the newspaper published a pop-vox quote or hearsay), there is nothing wrong with anecdotal evidence per sey, it is just difficult or impossible to corroborate even from first-hand witnesses. This does not imply that it is false-memory or mass-hysteria or subjected to later embellishment (though all those can be present in some cases), it means that cause-and-effect may not be as at first assumed.


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman
Back to Top
TODDLER View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2604
Post Options Post Options   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2013 at 11:26
Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by TODDLER

Originally posted by Dean

Any sceptic who disregards the experiences you relate as tall-tales would be wrong because the events you have described most certainly happened: Patrick Michael Newell, the kid who was bound with duct tape and drowned in a pond by two of his friends in 1971 really did drown in a pond in what was described at the time as "an assisted suicide" and as "a Satanic Ritual". That's evidence and a sceptic would never disregard evidence.
 
Richard Williams who assisted in the drowning told police that Michael belonged to a Satan worshippers sect and that he was merely introduced to his ideas and was not a member himself. He lived up the street from me and Michael used to tutor many of us in school. In several newspaper articles during that time, it was stated that police had confiscated evidence proving that there were 50 members present on the night Michael was murdered. That's why so many witnesses were questioned. There was evidence in Michael's room which led police to believe that this so called sect had members hiding in plainsight. They claimed the members belonged to the Chesnut Assembly of God church. There was no physical evidence on Michael's body and since the 2 boys admitted to the crime, everything else was disregarded as circumstantial evidence. Although police investigated for 2 years to prove otherwise. A Miami newspaper read that Pastor Harry Snook deprogrammed 90 teenage devil worshippers in 71'. He was the pastor of the Chestnut Assembly.

Sorry, you've confused me: Are you saying that members of the Chestnut Assembly of God were behind this secret satanic cult and their pastor deprogrammed 90 teenage devil worshippers...?
 
Now my sceptic ears prick-up. When investigations like this start chasing their own tail I get curious, was/is this church part of the charismatic movement? Cults are created on fear and by spreading fear - in order to defeat a demon you have to first create one - satan is a creation of the christian religion. In the 70s I had direct contact with a christian commune affiliated with the charismatic movement and know how they operate - there was no physical abuse but a lot of psychological "pressure". I don't understand why that differs from my experience. Why there was no physical abuse during your observation.
 
I am not that informative on the charismatic movement. I did attend the church in a group called the Royal Rangers which was a poor man's boy scouts. I believe it was a Pentecostal church. Ladies in long dresses dancing and speaking in tongues. Very common in Vineland N.J. to this day..however..during this particular time after the Satan cult killing , police discovered literature dealing with Michael Newell's Satan cult and a diary. This was revealed to me by a retired officer one afternoon , in his house, and on a day when I interviewed several retired officers who had worked for 2 years on the case. I had been overly curious for years as to how they linked members of the church to Michael's death. The officers stated that there was something in the diary , but said they couldn't and wouldn't reveal specifically what it was...that directly pointed to those people. They were also nervous about the possibility of a book being released on the case and asked me not to use their real names. I was told by 2 officers that a 70 year old man had access to the church basement with a key. They further stated that he was a high priest and along with members gave service to the Devil in the evenings. When I inquired about the pastor ..Harry Snook...the officers stated that he had no clue these people were worshipping Satan or that they were part of the church. As a result he took it upon himself to convert the 2 perpetrators when they served time in Yardville prison ..which was a total of 4 or 5 years. Both of them returned to Satan worship in 1978..which that info was provided by one of the perpetrators wives in a testimony written around the story of how she met him and converted him to Christianity. Williams committed suicide. Pastor Snook drove to Yardville prison to visit the 2 boys and according to newspapers had deprogrammed a total of 90 devil worshippers in Vineland. In the meantime, police hammered down on Lilith Sinclair who they claimed had revolted against the Church of Satan, moved to the east coast, and had formed this so called pre- "Temple of Set"...which! according to most publications, had not actually offically formed until she married Michael Aquino in 1972 and formed it then.
 
 
 But the police told me that was incorrect and that her people were already in Vineland by 71'. These were the members I met at age 17 when I worked for the "Inn on the Mall" in 1974. The police informed me that the ritual had been attempted several times after the tragic death of Michael Newell. They claimed that the ritual was forbidden by the Church of Satan and that being the reason why they revolted against the Church of Satan and for whatever reason..moved to Vineland. Perhaps it was a segment of Sinclair's group, but nevertheless they went after Sinclair. This info used to be available on a few Christian websites back in 2004. The ritual derives from the works of Colin De Plancey and is a Judeo Christian concept. Across town..the 3rd generation Watchtower society were into the same concepts..yet differed because they were channeling demons through a young girl and lowering her into a snake pit of dead snakes. She is now married to a federal officer and has moved on with her life since her escape from the family. These rituals associated with demonology were common in Vineland during the 70's. My good friend Sharon Carter was stabbed to death by her husband a few years ago. Her husband was in and out of the mental hospital frequently. He used to drive the 2 perpetrators around town and he knew the members of the cult. I suspect he may have been a member as well. Sharon used to call me and we had long discussions about the members, the sect, a few years before she was murdered in Vineland. Suicide with assitance was put in motion by a lawyer defending the perpetrators. The 2 boys confessed to the crime showing no remorse ..but I and a bunch of friends knew there were close to 50 people there that night...because..we often listened to the chanting and screaming at Menantico and other wooded sections in Vineland. It was evident to most kids in my age group and it was hinted through the publications..but it couldn't be proven. But we knew..because we grew up there. Simple as that and of course no one in their right mind is going to believe any of it.    
 
 
 
Unpublished and currently unavailable evidence is still evidence. The problem with such evidence from a rational, investigative examination is that it is primarily anecdotal (even when published in a newspaper ... especially so when the newspaper published a pop-vox quote or hearsay), there is nothing wrong with anecdotal evidence per sey, it is just difficult or impossible to corroborate even from first-hand witnesses. This does not imply that it is false-memory or mass-hysteria or subjected to later embellishment (though all those can be present in some cases), it means that cause-and-effect may not be as at first assumed. Interesting.
[/QUOTE]


Edited by TODDLER - October 18 2013 at 11:31
Back to Top
TODDLER View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2604
Post Options Post Options   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2013 at 15:40
I have never believed in the supernatural. I have never believed in demons or the devil. I believe that anyone who trusts their life to a ritual in a book is delusional. I've just never believed in any of those things. When my first wife worked roots on me and I became sick..it made perfect sense. If a person who doesn't claim to be a witch were to put roots in your food, you would feel sick or in a trance. Because it is logical that any kind of medicine will affect your mental/physical state. But a person who is working roots on you and believes it revolves around a spell or has power over you is full of it. Trust me on this one...it's just the affect of the roots and that's it.
 
When people dressed in black cloaks hang you upside down and taunt you...it's physically the same as the local street gang hanging you upside down and throwing darts at you in a pool hall. Only they believe it serves Satan and gains power in their life. Physically it does not differ from any other form of torture or crime. They are just using the darkside to feel important and that is it!  They surely exist and they definitely dress in black cloaks...but all the B.S. that goes along with that culture is farce and a bit delusional. Do you understand my meaning? Where I'm coming from? Sorry to overload everyone..it was simply my experiences in the 70's.
Back to Top
Svetonio View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6542
Post Options Post Options   Quote Svetonio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2013 at 06:34
This was 60s in Yugoslavia, the country where I was born.



    timeless. ma fav Yugoslav song from 60s.
   





 
Give Sunshine from Hair, the Yugoslav version (played in "Atelje 212"  theater, Belgrade 1969)

  engl. transl. The Morning Will Change Everything  by Indexi, a nice proto-prog song  from 1969



Edited by Svetonio - November 19 2013 at 09:17
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 171819

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.69
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.277 seconds.